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Thread: Givi engine bars

  1. #1
    Senior Member Givi engine bars Rocker66's Avatar
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    Givi engine bars

    If it is of any interest here are a couple of shots of the Givi bars fitted to the X


    4 Wheels move the body 2 wheels move the soul
    Audere est Facere

  2. #2
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    Beemerphile's Avatar
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    I bought the Givi bars but became concerned that they did not provide longer bolts for the engine mounts.

    Repeating my (condensed) comments made on the ADV Rider board...

    The basic product is sound and well constructed. They attach to the four main engine mounting bolts and clamp mid-way of a very substantial frame member, however, they re-use the stock engine mounting bolts. In the case of the sidebag mounts, they provided longer bolts to make up for the thickness of their brackets. In this case, they did not. An economic decision probably, as these are rather expensive grade 10.9 bolts, but I think it is a big issue here. The four engine bolts pass through flanges on the frame and thread into tapped bosses cast into the aluminum engine. Givi apparently assumes that the fastening points are strong enough with 5.3 mm less thread engagement, even though they will now potentially be called on to absorb an impact force for which they were not designed. With aftermarket crash protection, there is always a possibility that an ill-designed engine-saver can be turned into an engine-destroyer. This was often the case with BMW airhead cylinder protectors. They transfer the force to the frame, thereby often bending it. Without them, only a new valve cover is often all that is needed because the cylinders are hell for stout. So I ran my airheads with only sliders on the valve covers and I now question EVERY "crash bar" design before it goes on my bike.

    In this case, I think the engine guard and the mounting points are fine, but I disagree strongly with re-using the stock engine bolts. So, I plan to install longer bolts to achieve NO LESS than the original amount of thread engagement as it represents the best that we can do. All four of the threaded attachment points are open to the inside, so a bolt longer than necessary will do no harm so long as there is sufficient length of thread to get to where the threaded portion starts. I will install somewhat longer than necessary bolts so that I have some reserve in case I add a later accessory, such as a skidplate, that wants to mount to the same place.

    Here are the numbers for the engine bolts on the US spec 700x with manual transmission (not DCT). All are grade 10.9 M12-1.25 hex washer head bolts.

    UPPER LEFT: 35mm long bolt with 7mm from face of frame flange to start of thread
    UPPER RIGHT: 45mm long bolt with 17mm from face of frame flange to start of thread
    LOWER LEFT: 80mm long bolt with 46mm from face of frame flange to start of thread
    LOWER RIGHT: 55mm long bolt with 30mm from face of frame flange to start of thread

    The stock bolts are not exactly flush with the exit of the bosses, so the numbers above don't clarify that the thickness of the threaded bosses are between 25 and 27mm thick. I don't want to reduce it by 20% and add potential impact forces. I publish them here so that you don't have to do the research. In order to keep the engine in position, you have to remove, measure, and reinstall them one at a time. Since they are open on the inside I plan to get bolts 10mm longer so long as the distance to start of thread is adequate. I could not find these bolts in washer head, but +10mm will allow enough length to add a washer under the head. The upper right bolt can be re-used on the upper left. I purchased three new bolts in 55mm, 70mm (65 was not available), and 90mm length with grade 10.9 washers from:

    Bolt Depot - Nuts and Bolts, Screws and Fasteners online
    .
    Last edited by Beemerphile; 18th August 2012 at 18:35.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker66 View Post
    If it is of any interest here are a couple of shots of the Givi bars fitted to the X


    I like that front fender extension and this bike needs it in the worst way. I can see the stock fender allowing a lot of spray to hit the radiator.

    I think I found it on Ebay, would this be it? HONDA NC700S / NC700X PYRAMID FENDA EXTENDA 2012 > ON | eBay

    It has to come from the UK. Says it comes with self tapping screws. I would rather use automotive two sided tape if possible.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Givi engine bars duk2n's Avatar
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    @beemerphile, many thanks for your reseach.

    Just a question I think it's important as the engine is aluminum: are the bolts stainless or zinc alloy? Also, I guess it would be important to use a thread sealant to avoid any chemical reaction issue?

    Also, could you please point us in the Bold Depot web to the exact pages for the bolts and washers you ordered?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Givi engine bars duk2n's Avatar
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    @Rocket66, many thanks for the pics. Are those from your bike? If so, do you mounted your self the bars? Please, could you comment if it was a easy job? Finally I would like to know if you found any aerodynamic issue, maybe noise or turbulunce. I'm asking because specially in the front view they seem to be really big and protrude from the bike. I realize the counterpart will be they provide a good protection

  6. #6
    Senior Member Givi engine bars happy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beemerphile View Post
    I bought the Givi bars but became concerned that they did not provide longer bolts for the engine mounts.

    snip snip
    I am going to say this, thank God for people like you, beemerphile.

    You are going to be one of the most technically-inclined user here. Great to read such details...and your willingness to help out.

    ~Joe
    ~Happy Joe
    LIfe's short, stop writing and start riding ...
    if everyone thinks like me, there is no need for a forum...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Givi engine bars Rocker66's Avatar
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    yes that is my bike. As the dealer offered to fit them free of charge I let them do it. I have not noticed any difference when riding with them but then I have the foot wind deflectors fitted.
    4 Wheels move the body 2 wheels move the soul
    Audere est Facere

  8. #8
    #1 Elite Givi engine bars
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    The stock bolts are high strength steel with what looks like zinc dichromate plating. There was no thread sealant. I am not sure my link is a good source worldwide, but the specs should be sufficient to cross reference the items. Also, I am not sure if the mounting bolts are the same on every model in every market. There are spacers at some bolt locations that may be different with the DCT transmission. Best to check.

    The net is, that to lose some of the thread engagement is to weaken the connection at the same time that you are exposing them to impact loads. I would rather trash the bodywork and scuff up the engine than to break a cast-in element of the engine block.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Givi engine bars duk2n's Avatar
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    What about the torque for those bolts? Does Givi provide the numbers?

  10. #10
    #1 Elite Givi engine bars
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    Quote Originally Posted by duk2n View Post
    What about the torque for those bolts? Does Givi provide the numbers?
    The Givi instructions are simple pictures with little technical information. The NC700X service manual from Honda specifies 54 N-m for the 12mm engine mounting bolts. Since they are extra fine threads into aluminum, make sure that the threads are clean (internally and externally) and approach the torque slowly. I normally do it in about three steps.

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