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ABS brakes should probably be a 'deal killer' on new street bikes

melensdad

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Based on a new Insurance Institute for Highway Safety study, which heavily footnotes a bunch of prior studies, it sure looks like ABS brakes not only help newer riders but also help experienced riders. Further, it concludes ABS brakes not only reduce deaths, they reduce the severity of injuries and also reduce crashes. There is some data on motorcycles of the same model with and without ABS showing the feature is effective.

For me, one of the reasons I chose the NC700x in the first place was ABS, another was the DCT. To me the combination just seemed too good to pass up. For me, on a modern street motorcycle, especially a daily rider, ABS is a deal breaker.

The meat of the study is only 13 pages, worthy of effort it takes to read.

 
To me, it doesn't really matter. The lack of ABS never been a deal breaker for me. In fact, after over 46 years of riding motorcycles, I just this summer bought my first bike that is equipped with ABS, although I have never had the ABS activate on it (and possibly never will). ABS was mandatory on that particular model; I didn't ask for it. So I've safely ridden this long and about 300,000 miles, and never used ABS on a motorcycle.

American Honda's marketing decision to bundle ABS with DCT, and not offer ABS with the manual transmission on 2012 through 2020 USA NC models was a selfish and profit motivated move that was not in the best interest of motorcycle rider safety.

The day should come soon when all new motorcycles sold will be equipped with ABS.
 
I guess I'll be one of those that forever dislikes electronic interference in the name of safety. Traction control, ABS, wheelie control, launch control, all that crap....I don't want it. LOL. I want the bike in raw form and be in full control of how it acts and reacts, all the time.
 
I think ABS is a great safety feature, and I would opt for it if I could, but I did not want a DCT bike, so for the (UW-market) 2013 model year, I had no choice.

Also remember ABS makes for slightly more involved maintenance bleeding brakes or replacing brake lines, and adds overall complexity to the system.
 
Also remember ABS makes for slightly more involved maintenance bleeding brakes or replacing brake lines….
True only for 2012-2013 models with the three piston linked brake front caliper and then only for replacing brake lines. There is no difference in bleeding brakes between ABS and non ABS bikes. This must have been a thing with other bikes or brands but not with Hondas since at least 2002.
 
I guess I'll be one of those that forever dislikes electronic interference in the name of safety. Traction control, ABS, wheelie control, launch control, all that crap....I don't want it. LOL. I want the bike in raw form and be in full control of how it acts and reacts, all the time.
I get that. And I don't believe that ABS is a deal killer on all bikes. But on a daily ride or a long tour bike I see no reason not to have it. On a fun knock around bike, something I buy for a novelty, I'll gladly take no ABS. Simple works.

But the study is pretty interesting. Even with experienced riders the ABS, if I interpret the data correctly, ABS appears to reduce accidents, reduce severity and fatality.
 
I wish Honda offered the ABS MT model in 2017. I was told the bike had ABS by the salesman who assumed it did like the DCT model on the floor.

Boy was I steamed when I read the manual at home.

I can see the argument for switchable ABS for dirt/dualsport bikes. ABS seems like a feature akin to airbags. You'll probably never use it, but it's there just in case. In those edge cases, it can make the difference between your last ride and a most noteworthy one.
 
BMW and Honda are both developing ABS for dirt situations. The numbers are quite encouraging.

 
Dirt/trail riding aside (I have no experience with them so I'll abstain from comment), the NC is a street bike by design. ABS has been shown, not only in the linked study for motorcycle specific use, but widely known for years in automobiles, to enhance safety. Just like any safety measure (helmets, seat belts, airbags, crumple zones ,etc.) there are, what I'll call, 3 distinct regions. I'll address region 1 and 3 first.
Region 1) Incident was so mild the safety feature did not come into play. These are the fender benders, the driveway drops, etc.
Region 3) Incident was so severe the safety feature did not make a difference. These are catastrophic and no reasonable amount of safety features are going to save you.

The magic happens in Region 2, where the safety feature activates and reduces the severity of the outcome. As far as I know, all typical safety features widen this region, IE make otherwise severe outcomes less severe.

Looking at ABS specifically, the vast majority of the time we operate in Region 1. Most of our time spent braking would not lock the tires, therefore not fire the ABS. The fun part about this region is the bike is effectively indistinguishable from a non-ABS bike (ignoring combined braking).
Region 3 still exists for an ABS bike. You're heading down the road and another car pulls out way too close in front of you, cutting you off. You pile on the brakes, but still end up plowing into the side of the car anyway. There's just not enough time for ABS to have made any difference in the outcome.
Region 2 is wider. A car pulls out in front of you, cutting you off but not as close. You pile on the brakes, ABS fires, you stop short of hitting the car. Had you been on a non-ABS bike, you likely would have hit the car and/or locked the wheels and dropped hard. Statistically, for normal road conditions, the ABS is going to stop you shorter than even the best threshold braking technique, and a hell of a lot better than locking the tires.

Further, a bike with a failed ABS will operate exactly as a bike with no ABS to begin with. There are extremely few downsides to having ABS.
Again, ignoring dirt/trail riding, there is practically no situation where locking the brakes is preferred to not locking the brakes.

HOWEVER, just because something is for all intents and practical purposes objectively superior, it does not mean that lacking should be a universal deal breaker.
It is generally accepted that a conventional automatic transmission is less efficient than a manual shift. Essentially, the only benefit a conventional automatic has over a manual is ease of use/convenience.
Early CVTs had reliability issues and limited HP, though technology is advancing and solving many of these issues.
DCT (and other names such as DSG) combine the rigid power delivery of a manual with the convenience/ease of use of an automatic.
It could be argued that a modern CVT or DCT are objectively superior to manual and conventional automatic transmissions.
Subjectively, I prefer to drive a manual shift, therefore I will continue to buy a vehicle with manual shift as long as possible.

Now to bring it back on topic, when I bought my 2012 NC700S, the manual shift Canadian model was ABS equipped, so I have ABS on my bike.
If the manual model only came ABS-free, I would not have ABS on my bike.
I subjectively prefer the manual transmission, therefore I would not pay extra for the DCT, even if ABS-or-not was also a factor.
If both ABS and non-ABS were available, I'd have evaluated the additional cost (actual dollar value) of ABS against my perceived value (safety) of ABS to make the decision. Since these are subjective assessments comparing the value of money to the value of safety, there is no "right" or "wrong" choice, each person would have to make their own evaluation.

Another example, a car with an MSRP of greater than $100,000 would be an absolute deal breaker for me. The fact that Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, et al still exist proves that it is not a deal breaker for some.

Also, the argument that it encourages bad habits doesn't seem logical to me (I know no one brought it up here, but that's really the only argument AGAINST ABS I've ever seen). The argument usually says someone with ABS is just going to rely on the system rather than practicing their skills.
I imagine the subset of riders that WOULD practice if they did not have ABS, but WOULD NOT practice if the have ABS is extremely small. I think most people will either practice or they won't.
If anything, knowing the ABS would kick in and save my ass while practicing would make me more likely to practice. Knowing I had the safety net if I hit the limits of braking rather than just dropping the bike means I'd be much more comfortable exploring how far I can push things while in a safe environment.
 
Iron Warrior I think you make a lot of valid points and I generally agree. Excellent post!

BUT, when it come to buying a new daily rider or touring bike in 2021, for me the lack of ABS would be a deal breaker. it was actually a deal breaker for me in 2016. A guy at my fencing club rides a retro Janus, no ABS, but he is not a daily rider, he never racks up daily commuter miles. Doesn’t take it to the grocery store, etc.

His bike is a fun recreational toy. My NC is a functional transportation tool. That is where I draw the line. I have 3 ‘toys’ in my garage without ABS. There are 2 ‘tools’ in my garage with ABS.

My point with the thread is only to point out, at this point in time, we have superior technology to help keep us safer. I will gladly use that technology. Then again, I’m an ATGATT guy too.
 
Iron Warrior I think you make a lot of valid points and I generally agree. Excellent post!

BUT, when it come to buying a new daily rider or touring bike in 2021, for me the lack of ABS would be a deal breaker. it was actually a deal breaker for me in 2016. A guy at my fencing club rides a retro Janus, no ABS, but he is not a daily rider, he never racks up daily commuter miles. Doesn’t take it to the grocery store, etc.

His bike is a fun recreational toy. My NC is a functional transportation tool. That is where I draw the line. I have 3 ‘toys’ in my garage without ABS. There are 2 ‘tools’ in my garage with ABS.

My point with the thread is only to point out, at this point in time, we have superior technology to help keep us safer. I will gladly use that technology. Then again, I’m an ATGATT guy too.

My big experience with ABS in a car that turned me off on ABS, I think I've already mentioned on here, but maybe not. Back a couple years ago, I was on a local back road in my 2010 Malibu LTZ with ABS. Had my then-stepson in the car with me. It had just started raining, I came up on a stop sign at a road crossing before I knew it (wasn't familiar with the road). I slammed on the brakes, and good ole abs allowed me to "slide" literally all the way out into the crossroad enough to where I would have been hit if a car was going either direction on that road. If it weren't for ABS, I am 100% confident I could have stopped the car, even on wet road, in well enough time before the stop sign.
 
Iron Warrior I think you make a lot of valid points and I generally agree. Excellent post!

BUT, when it come to buying a new daily rider or touring bike in 2021, for me the lack of ABS would be a deal breaker. it was actually a deal breaker for me in 2016. A guy at my fencing club rides a retro Janus, no ABS, but he is not a daily rider, he never racks up daily commuter miles. Doesn’t take it to the grocery store, etc.

His bike is a fun recreational toy. My NC is a functional transportation tool. That is where I draw the line. I have 3 ‘toys’ in my garage without ABS. There are 2 ‘tools’ in my garage with ABS.

My point with the thread is only to point out, at this point in time, we have superior technology to help keep us safer. I will gladly use that technology. Then again, I’m an ATGATT guy too.
Absolutely agree. A bike with ABS is objectively better than a bike without ABS, and when we're talking commuting vs recreational use, the safety factor becomes more of an importance.
I imagine it won't be long before all new machines are required to have ABS.
Your decision to pass on a non-ABS bike is absolutely a valid decision. Someone else choosing to get that non-ABS bike would also be a valid decision.
For me personally, ABS isn't so much a critical "must have" that it would always stop me from getting a particular machine, but all else being equal, I would always go for ABS over not.

At least for me right now, having a DCT WOULD be a deal breaker, but I still respect the opinion of those who prefer it.

ATGATT is objectively safer, but I know some hot days when I'm just popping between hangars at work (2km or less) I'll toss on the helmet only for convenience. I still respect those who wouldn't dream of even looking at a motorcycle closely without full leathers.

These are all the kinds of opinions where we can respectfully disagree, and even though there's an "objectively better" option, the subjective plays a major role and is going to vary from person to person.
 
My big experience with ABS in a car that turned me off on ABS, I think I've already mentioned on here, but maybe not. Back a couple years ago, I was on a local back road in my 2010 Malibu LTZ with ABS. Had my then-stepson in the car with me. It had just started raining, I came up on a stop sign at a road crossing before I knew it (wasn't familiar with the road). I slammed on the brakes, and good ole abs allowed me to "slide" literally all the way out into the crossroad enough to where I would have been hit if a car was going either direction on that road. If it weren't for ABS, I am 100% confident I could have stopped the car, even on wet road, in well enough time before the stop sign.
Was it a literal dirt/loose gravel road? The only surface I'm aware of that benefits from non-ABS is a loose surface that will dam up in front of the locked tires. I am not an expert though, so there may be something I don't know.
Not doubting your skills, and I obviously don't know all the factors at play, but it is statistically unlikely that ABS increased the stopping distance assuming the system was operating properly.
Remember that the first few minutes after it starts raining are the slipperiest in most cases, too.
 
Was it a literal dirt/loose gravel road? The only surface I'm aware of that benefits from non-ABS is a loose surface that will dam up in front of the locked tires. I am not an expert though, so there may be something I don't know.
Not doubting your skills, and I obviously don't know all the factors at play, but it is statistically unlikely that ABS increased the stopping distance assuming the system was operating properly.
Remember that the first few minutes after it starts raining are the slipperiest in most cases, too.
No, it was a once paved long ago, bumpy backroad, the kind with no lines on it. Full 2 lane width, just bumpy and no lines. We have several of those where I live.
 
No, it was a once paved long ago, bumpy backroad, the kind with no lines on it. Full 2 lane width, just bumpy and no lines. We have several of those where I live.
I know the type, we have plenty of those around here. That type of surface can certainly have an impact on ABS. The other benefit of ABS, maintaining better directional control under hard braking, still works in these situations, though that's not much use if you've got nowhere to swerve to and just need to stop the shortest you can. Glad to hear there was nothing coming down the cross road.

With anything, there are going to be what I'll call "fringe cases" where the system isn't going to perform optimally. Ideally, these cases are rare enough and the outcomes mild enough, though this is not always the case.
You can never* design something to perform perfectly in every possible scenario, the goal is to perform as well as possible in as many cases as possible while minimizing the downsides. In general, optimizing for one parameter is going to have a negative effect on at least one other parameter.

*due to limitations such as time, cost, etc. Remove these barriers and just about anything is possible.
 
My big experience with ABS in a car that turned me off on ABS, I think I've already mentioned on here, but maybe not. Back a couple years ago, I was on a local back road in my 2010 Malibu LTZ with ABS. Had my then-stepson in the car with me. It had just started raining, I came up on a stop sign at a road crossing before I knew it (wasn't familiar with the road). I slammed on the brakes, and good ole abs allowed me to "slide" literally all the way out into the crossroad enough to where I would have been hit if a car was going either direction on that road. If it weren't for ABS, I am 100% confident I could have stopped the car, even on wet road, in well enough time before the stop sign.
In a similar way (and my experience doesn’t apply directly to motorcycles), I have a van with four wheel ABS. If I am on a road with a strip of ice under the right wheels, and dry pavement under the left wheels, for example, I can stand on the brake pedal all day and the van will not brake at all. If the situation was at an intersection, which is often where ice builds up, I would sail right through the intersection. If there was no ABS, or if the ABS could be switched off, I could stop it quickly due to the dry pavement traction under two of the wheels. I would just need to steer to keep the van straight. So there are loop holes and shortcuts taken in some ABS implementations, and sometimes it extends stopping distance. Often the design intent seems to be to stop the vehicle under control, but not necessarily stop it more quickly.
 
In a similar way (and my experience doesn’t apply directly to motorcycles), I have a van with four wheel ABS. If I am on a road with a strip of ice under the right wheels, and dry pavement under the left wheels, for example, I can stand on the brake pedal all day and the van will not brake at all. If the situation was at an intersection, which is often where ice builds up, I would sail right through the intersection. If there was no ABS, or if the ABS could be switched off, I could stop it quickly due to the dry pavement traction under two of the wheels. I would just need to steer to keep the van straight. So there are loop holes and shortcuts taken in some ABS implementations, and sometimes it extends stopping distance. Often the design intent seems to be to stop the vehicle under control, but not necessarily stop it more quickly.
I have to think that studies like the one referenced in the OP account for confounding factors like you describe. In the case of two wheels on ice and two on dry pavement and a multiplexing 2 or 4 channel ABS the two wheels with good traction would brake to the point just short of lock up wouldn't they? The amount of braking pressure applied by the leg and foot wouldn't match the deceleration rate and it might feel like the van isn't braking at all when it actually is.

It seems to work this way with ABS motorcycles I've owned. If the rear brake is over applied all you feel is the foot pedal tremble or vibration but the bike is braking and decelerating rapidly due to weight transfer to the front tire but when the front wheel ABS kicks in you do feel like no brakes are applied at all.
 
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