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Need Help 2012 NC700XD Starting Problem

Mmuenster

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I have been working for a while on this problem and would appreciate some help. I am an electrical engineer but haven't been able to get to the bottom of this problem.
I have a 2012 NC700XD that recently began having a problem when starting. Everything appears normal (fuel pump engages, dashboard illuminates, in neutral, kickstand down) but when I press the starter button, the starter solenoid just clicks and clicks. The starter motor doesn't make a sound. I have tried the following:

1) I have replaced the battery. I have recharged the battery. It reads 12.7V when the bike is off.
2) I have replaced the starter. No change.
3) I have replaced the starter solenoid. No change.
4) I have replaced the starter relay in the fuse box. No change.

Additionally, I have done the following troubleshooting.

A) After turning on the key, I have jumped the starter motor wire across the starter solenoid and the bike starts just fine.
B) Battery voltages measured as follows. Bike off 12.7 V. Bike on, headlight unplugged, 12.4 V. Bike on headlight plugged in, 12.2 V.
C) I have briefly attached a 10 amp car rapid charger to the battery which drives the voltage (with the bike on) to 14.0 V. In this condition, the bike will start when pressing the switch.

I suspect I have either a short in a wire to the solenoid or relay or a grounding problem but can't see any problems with the wires. I have replaced everything I can think of.

Any help would be appreciated.
Matt Muenster
Paso Robles, Ca
 
Try plugging in the car battery. If you can start the engine it means your battery has insufficient energy even though it shows voltage above 12.5 V.
I had a similar incident with my CTX. This is an annoying reality with the NC/CTX XD. There is a relatively high load on the battery in the first moment after turning the ignition switch. Some batteries lose capacity faster than you might expect after a few years of use.
Here is your simplified diagram of the starting system.

Capture2 (800x486).jpg
 
It sounds like you have been diligent in your troubleshooting and parts replacement. You might want to verify the integrity of the ground connection from frame and engine back to the battery. Grounds are often overlooked as people tend to focus on the positive side of DC circuits.

There was an incident somewhat similar to yours reported here recently. It is a long read, with the diagnosis not disclosed until post #111. Interestingly, the cause of the engine no crank problem was a defect in the camshaft. Check it out: https://www.nc700-forum.com/threads/nc700x-wont-turn-over.20406/
 
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Thank you for your replies.

I am confident the battery is not the problem since when I jumper across the starting circuit, it starts just fine (see below).
Once its started, the bike runs normally so its hard to imagine a cam shaft problem would be causing it to not start in this manner.

I certainly agree about the ground connection as being a potential problem. However, I only see a single ground connection for the battery and starter motor and have checked that multiple times. Also, it had to be redone when I replaced the starter.

Is there another ground connection, possibly from the fuse box that I could check? I haven't found one yet...

Thanks again.

Capture2 Edited (800x486).jpg
 
With key on and all interlocks satisfied, what happens if you ground the G/R terminal on the starter relay?
 
Greg,

Great suggestion. That solved it. When I jumpered G/R directly to the battery, it starts with the normal start switch/circuit. I measured the resistance between the G/R and the negative battery terminal at 117 ohms. It sounds like my "ground" in the fuse panel is no longer grounded. I will begin the hunt to figure out where that happens.

Thank you,
Matt
 
You can try to re-seat the Starter Relay.
The easiest way to find Ground Terminals is by searching the Service Manual Section 1 and the wiring diagram. But if no one previously had a reason to unscrew the ground bolt, we can believe in good quality electrical grounding at the ground terminal point.

Capture 3 (610x800).jpg

Capture 4 (800x482).jpg
 
... I measured the resistance between the G/R and the negative battery terminal at 117 ohms. ...
Have you measured this resistance with the ignition on or off? You need to measure it when the ignition is on. 117 Ohms resistance seems unlikely when the Starter Relay contacts are on.
Rather, measure what the voltage drop is. It's safer that way.
 
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Have you measured this resistance with the ignition on or off? You need to measure it when the ignition is on. 117 Ohms resistance seems unlikely when the Starter Relay contacts are on.
Rather, measure what the voltage drop is. It's safer that way.
When the ignition was off, it was infinite. When the ignition was on, it was 117 ohms.
 
When the ignition was off, it was infinite. When the ignition was on, it was 117 ohms.
Measuring resistance in a powered circuit is rather meaningless, because you can’t know how the meter circuit is influenced by the introduction of voltages in the circuit. It’s best to either measure voltage drops in a live circuit, or measure resistances with power off.

If you want to measure closed contact resistance on the start relay, do so with the coil leads connected in circuit, but the contacts leads disconnected.
 
...When the ignition was on, it was 117 ohms.
I still have doubts.
I just have a Starter Relay Switch from my CTX on my desk and I can measure that the coil impedance is around 3.2 Ohms. This would mean that about 4A is required for the relay operation. At the beginning you stated that "the starter solenoid just clicks and clicks". That is, the "solenoid" works to some degree. If you add a resistance of 117 Ohms to the circuit of this "solenoid", the current would drop to about 0.1 A. This current will definitely not provide any "click".
 
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