2021 NC750X DCT will not start, not going into neutral

[670cc]

Update #2
I did the leakage test recommended by Lootzyan - no leakage, 0.000 mA .
Overnight the voltage held at 12.68V multimeter, 12.3V displayed.

I got the bike in September 2021, a week after the dealer got it. So I guess the battery could be a 2020 manufacture date, unlikely that it is older.

I didn't get anything else done on the bike yesterday. When I got home from my morning run my son called. He had the day off and we spent the day doing yard work. He worked me too hard. I took an nap after he left. It's tough keeping up with someone 40 years younger.

Thanks for the support,
Lee

I haven’t done the leakage test but I’m surprised there would be zero current draw with the key shut off. I’d think normally there would be some current. Seeing 0.000 mA would make me question my meter or meter lead connections. At the very least, some power is keeping the clock ticking. If I’m ever replacing my battery, which will likely be about 6 years from now, I‘ll test the standby current.

 

[lootzyan]

...Seeing 0.000 mA would make me question my meter or meter lead connections. ...

Many popular multimeters can show a value of 0.000 if the range selector is set to high values. But to be sure, I would also check the internal fuse of the meter.

 

[lootzyan]

... voltage held at 12.68V multimeter, 12.3V displayed..

These discrepancies in reading the battery voltage should be no more than 0.15V using today's digital meters. You could check the accuracy of the reading by comparing it to the reading of a better quality meter, e.g. request a measurement in AutoZone.
But I think now it is more important for you to check how much the voltage of the charged battery changes over time.
But these are personal views on how to proceed. I would probably prefer to buy a new battery and started to monitor what was happening more often. I also think it is a good idea to read the available YUASA technical bulletin. Their recommended battery charger is very good for keeping their battery working properly.

 

[670cc]

While I think this battery is damaged as it was allowed to discharge to almost nothing, I would keep the present battery until the cause of the battery drain is understood and the problem corrected. If a new battery was installed now, a circuit leak could ruin the new one.

On the other hand, that the low voltage read at problem discovery was 10.3 volts, it looks suspiciously like one cell could have intermittently shorted internally, causing the loss of approximately two volts. You would need to carefully monitor the voltage going forward. The dash voltage display will make this monitoring convenient.

 

[lootzyan]

...one cell could have intermittently shorted internally, causing the loss of approximately two volts...

I think that the probability of a cell short circuit in a modern YUASA AGM motorcycle battery is so unlikely that the possibility of such an event is completely ignored.
For over 40 years I have not heard of such an event. It was possible a long time ago in very simple large lead batteries due to a suddenly very high load, the lead plates were destroyed and the material flowed to the bottom of the battery and caused a short circuit between the plates. In the workshops, a cell was taken from other damaged batteries and inserted into another battery. This practice has long been abandoned.
In this case, I suppose that there were too many attempts to start the engine and the battery was quickly discharged. After all, these are batteries with a relatively small capacity.

 

[the Ferret]

Imo this case was caused by an issue in the 4 or 5 electrical things wired in by an individual and not at the factory, and the bike not being ridden enough to keep it charged up.

It's really rare for a OEM battery to be bad in less than a year (Sept 21 to Aug 22). If so, it's covered under warranty, but I would be highly suspect of that being the case.

 

[dduelin]

Imo this case was caused by an issue in the 4 or 5 electrical things wired in by an individual and not at the factory, and the bike not being ridden enough to keep it charged up.

It's really rare for a OEM battery to be bad in less than a year (Sept 21 to Aug 22). If so, it's covered under warranty, but I would be highly suspect of that being the case.

My response is not directed at the OP rather at general battery maintenance. I have worked two jobs in my life where we sold a lot of batteries. A marine supply store and a motorcycle shop. In the spring lots of people come in toting a "bad" battery. It's still under warranty and the owner expects to get a new one. "Year old, worked fine the last time I used the boat/motorcycle, now it won't start." That's probably true but it's not the whole story.

At least twenty years back battery manufacturers and suppliers started putting pressure on retailers to not just hand out a bunch of new batteries every spring. The core returns for warranty credits were testing too many as Good Battery but Severely Discharged. Retailers were supplied with battery testers and required to test the battery first before proceeding with in-warranty replacement. The battery will test good or bad regardless of state of charge, well at least 10 volts of charge. It can test good and just need a charge or bad and charging won't save it. If the battery tests good but severely discharged there are two questions to ask. Do you have a battery charger and when was this battery last charged? The answers are often no, or last summer/fall. This customer is told to charge the battery and let's test it again before a warranty replacement is indicated. "Need a charger that is matched to this battery? We sell a good one."

All batteries self discharge over time and require regular charging when not in use. That is not on the manufacturer or retailer it's on the owner and leaving a battery unmaintained is not a reason for warranty replacement.

 

[670cc]

I think that the probability of a cell short circuit in a modern YUASA AGM motorcycle battery is so unlikely that the possibility of such an event is completely ignored.
For over 40 years I have not heard of such an event. It was possible a long time ago in very simple large lead batteries due to a suddenly very high load, the lead plates were destroyed and the material flowed to the bottom of the battery and caused a short circuit between the plates. In the workshops, a cell was taken from other damaged batteries and inserted into another battery. This practice has long been abandoned.
In this case, I suppose that there were too many attempts to start the engine and the battery was quickly discharged. After all, these are batteries with a relatively small capacity.

As I understood it there were zero attempts to start the engine because the transmission, not being in neutral, would not allow the starter to crank. I understood the battery was well discharged when the OP first walked up to the bike and discovered it stuck in first gear.

I do agree that the likelihood of a shorted cell is extremely low. Yuasa had some early life battery failures about 10 years ago, but they were sudden open circuits, not shorts.

 

[Lee_0123]

As I understood it there were zero attempts to start the engine because the transmission, not being in neutral, would not allow the starter to crank. I understood the battery was well discharged when the OP first walked up to the bike and discovered it stuck in first gear.

I do agree that the likelihood of a shorted cell is extremely low. Yuasa had some early life battery failures about 10 years ago, but they were sudden open circuits, not shorts.

Greg, the low voltage would not allow the transmission to shift into neutral so the engine was not cranked.

The bike took a full charge overnight and has held it steady for three days. On day three I took it for a ride without any problems. I now ride with voltage displayed and when running it varies with motor speed from 14.1V to 14.4V. When parked and the engine off it is at 12.3V.

I checked the eyelets on the wires that are terminated at the battery (the trickle charger and Garmin GPS) and there are no stray wire strands sticking out. The insulation on the wires is intact. The USB port is a prefabricated OEM Honda cable that plugs into a port on the bike. It too is in good shape. The wiring for the Oxford heated grips is in good shape. I did not inspect where the wiring is connected to the OEM wiring harness as the connection is well wrapped under electrical tape and I did not want to disturb it. I looked at the OEM wiring and I could not find any visible wear. Dirty and dusty in places but no visible wear, nothing strained when I turn the handle bars lock to lock. I'll be contacting an electrician friend and see if I can borrow his Fluke meter.

Still working to change my habit of leaving the bike in gear when I stop riding and to make sure I put it in neutral before turn the bike off. Its one of those old dog / new trick things.

Thanks for all the help and comments, Lee B.

 

[dduelin]

I checked the eyelets on the wires that are terminated at the battery (the trickle charger and Garmin GPS) and there are no stray wire strands sticking out. The insulation on the wires is intact. The USB port is a prefabricated OEM Honda cable that plugs into a port on the bike. It too is in good shape. The wiring for the Oxford heated grips is in good shape. I did not inspect where the wiring is connected to the OEM wiring harness as the connection is well wrapped under electrical tape and I did not want to disturb it. I looked at the OEM wiring and I could not find any visible wear. Dirty and dusty in places but no visible wear, nothing strained when I turn the handle bars lock to lock. I'll be contacting an electrician friend and see if I can borrow his Fluke meter.

Still working to change my habit of leaving the bike in gear when I stop riding and to make sure I put it in neutral before turn the bike off. Its one of those old dog / new trick things.

Thanks for all the help and comments, Lee B.

12.3 volts at the battery terminals indicates a battery approximately 75% discharged. It should show 12.6 to 12.8. If that’s the best that battery can do after a complete charge cycle it’s due for replacement sooner rather then later. It will strand you soon.

 

[lootzyan]

12.3 volts at the battery terminals indicates a battery approximately 75% discharged. It should show 12.6 to 12.8. If that’s the best that battery can do after a complete charge cycle it’s due for replacement sooner rather then later. It will strand you soon.

Previously, Lee_0123 wrote that:
the battery "voltage held at 12.68V multimeter, 12.3V displayed".
This means that the battery has been able to be charged to an almost normal state, considering the age of the battery. But the combination meter displays 12.3V. It is now an additional matter to find the reason for the difference in reading. With the help of the wiring diagram, it is not so difficult.

 

[The Mayor]

Riders don’t have to understand all the workings of the motorcycle, but knowing when it’s in gear or in neutral is important information. Just like driving an automatic car, it is useful to know when the car is in Drive or in Neutral.

For the sake of clarity for all, and as dduelin already explained, when riding the DCT and coming to a stop, the transmission is in first gear and the clutches are disengaged. Like the Ferret said, all you need do is twist the throttle, and the odd gear clutch engages and the bike moves. If you come to a stop and push the N (neutral) button, then first gear will be disengaged and the transmission is in neutral.

I apologize for any misinformation or lack of fornal dct knowledge. I have been hitting neutral since this thread got going. I guess I've just been lucky this whole time not doing it? Again, it was always in neutral upon the next startup, maybe rolling it around in the garage first did something in my favor?

 

[670cc]

I apologize for any misinformation or lack of fornal dct knowledge. I have been hitting neutral since this thread got going. I guess I've just been lucky this whole time not doing it? Again, it was always in neutral upon the next startup, maybe rolling it around in the garage first did something in my favor?

A DCT owner could confirm, but it’s my understanding that when you turn on the key, the DCT then attempts to put the transmission in neutral. It will do so if there is no binding in the gearbox. Rolling the bike around with power off would have no affect. The clutches default to disengaged, so there in little resistance in the gearbox even if the bike is in first gear. Again, hoping a DCT owner will confirm my understanding.

 

[the Ferret]

If you pull in and accidentally throw the side stand down, while running and in drive, it will automatically die, then you hear it cycling back to neutral. I've only done it a couple times and cussed myself each time be ause I know better.

I can't verify what it does it you turn it off with the key or with the emergency stop switch while running and in gear, because I have never done that.

 

[Lee_0123]

Just a quick update. I have just returned from the New England Retreads Motorcycle Rally in Gorham, New Hampsire, USA. I logged 1631 miles in 7 days and had no eletrical problems. I took 2 days getting up there camping overnight. Then I spent 4 nights in a hotel. On the way home I stayed in a motel as reasonably priced campsites were all booked for the holiday weekend. While riding to and from the rally site I carried full camping gear. During the rally the bike was ridden unloaded. The bike ran great so the cause of the battery's low voltage is still open.

If you are looking for a place to ride I'd recommend northern New Hampshire and Vermont (know as the North East Kingdom) which are great fun. Rally headquarters was at the Town and Country Inn and Resort in Shelburne, NH. It is a very nice place; motorcycle friendly, great faciltiy, with a great staff.

 

[alloo66]

My 2012 Honda NC700XD won't start. It started getting cooler upper 50s in the morning, bike wouldn't start yesterday. I moved the tire on the bike and the bike started. This morning same thing, but this time I couldn't get the bike started. I think I will get the battery replaced today. I've owned the bike for two years. My bike is my commuter. The longest that I've gotten a battery to last was 5 years. I always switch to neutral before turning off the bike, it's good practice.

 

[itsmenc700]

Its a 2012 and this is the original battery - yea its time for a new one.

 

[Edgrew]

I have found this thread most informative with recommendations of what to do before turning off the ignition. However, the first thing I would have done if I found that the battery voltage reading was low would have been to have jumped the bike with leads from my car battery. This is quick and simple. In this case, it would have started OK and proved that it was at least a battery voltage-related fault. This would have saved around 50 posts but on the other hand, we wouldn't have got all the interesting and mostly useful posts.