700/750 power differences

[LeeInMpls]

Just curious. Is there a noticeable difference in power between the 700 and 750?
The CX500 has about the same H.P. as the 700 50hp at 9,000 rpm and lower torque 33.9 @ 7000 rpm
The CX650 has more H.P. than the CX500. But it also has better MPG, being geared higher.
65h.p @8000 rpm and 45 @ 6500 torque

Thanks!

Lee in Minneapolis

 

[melensdad]

My wife rides a 700, and I have a 750. I ride both and don't notice a lot of difference. The 750 will accelerate a bit quicker but for the most part they are very similar.

 

[LeeInMpls]

My wife rides a 700, and I have a 750. I ride both and don't notice a lot of difference. The 750 will accelerate a bit quicker but for the most part they are very similar.

Thanks! You see many more used NC700Xs than 750s. I've seen that the manual clutch is a little faster than the DCT 0-60. The DCT is about the same as my GL500, which is plenty quick for me.

Lee in Minneapolis

 

[670cc]

Thanks! You see many more used NC700Xs than 750s. I've seen that the manual clutch is a little faster than the DCT 0-60. The DCT is about the same as my GL500, which is plenty quick for me.

Lee in Minneapolis

Performance difference between manual and auto transmission models will be negligible, if any at all. With all due respect, if anyone was concerned with acceleration times, the NC series may not be the right bike. However, the NC excels at having good, usable power at low RPM. I like to say it’s suitable for real world riding conditions, rather than power crazed moto journalists.

 

[TacomaJD]

Just curious. Is there a noticeable difference in power between the 700 and 750?
The CX500 has about the same H.P. as the 700 50hp at 9,000 rpm and lower torque 33.9 @ 7000 rpm
The CX650 has more H.P. than the CX500. But it also has better MPG, being geared higher.
65h.p @8000 rpm and 45 @ 6500 torque

Thanks!

Lee in Minneapolis

What is this CX500 and CX650 that you speak of?

 

[LeeInMpls]

What is this CX500 and CX650 that you speak of?

They were a breakthru motorcycle like the NCXs, made from the late '70s into the early '80s Their engines were short stroke, high revving. 50hp at 9,000rpm. Water cooled with a drive shaft. Extremely durable.
Read more here:
Honda CX series - Wikipedia

I am looking at NCXs, PC800s, CTX700s, GL650s and Royal Enfields as a second bike, after I put a sidecar on my GL500. Info about the differences between the 700s and NC750xs and also between the DCT and manual clutches help me decide about this model and the CTX. They are pretty natural questions for a shopper.

Thanks everyone!

This is my '82 GL500



This is a CX500D

 

[melensdad]

We also looked at a CTX for my wife instead of the NC700x she ended up with.

Certainly a lot lower, so straddling the seat was easier. We ended up with a 2016 NC700x for her and then lowered it a couple times. It's now too low and I have to raise it a bit

The CTX doesn't seem to have any resale value. Not that most of these retain value, they don't. But the CTX value seems to keep dropping.

 

[LeeInMpls]

We also looked at a CTX for my wife instead of the NC700x she ended up with.

Certainly a lot lower, so straddling the seat was easier. We ended up with a 2016 NC700x for her and then lowered it a couple times. It's now too low and I have to raise it a bit

The CTX doesn't seem to have any resale value. Not that most of these retain value, they don't. But the CTX value seems to keep dropping.

Thanks! The lack of resale value of the CTX is the biggest plus to me. You can buy a brand new CTX for $3,500 which is less than folks selling them used. I don't plan on selling anything I buy.

I should try to ride both and also the DCT and manual. I want a touring bike. My GL500 will be my in town bike. so I wonder if the DCT is important for touring. If it has better MPG, that would be a good reason to get one with DCT.

THanks,
Lee in Minneapolis

 

[melensdad]

I want a touring bike.

My wife and I rode ours on a 4000 mile trip. Both of our bikes have DCT. Is DCT important for touring? Nope. But its convenient and I love it. Its much more convenient in stop-and-go traffic, city riding, etc. Honestly I have no plans to ever go back to a manual transmission after getting a DCT. Perhaps I'm more extreme in my views than others but I'm a 1 bike at a time guy and I just don't see the need for a clutch lever after switching to the DCT. Some of my buddies are nay-sayers and gave me a bit of grief but I ride more than they do so I guess it proves something!

When you look at the DCT bikes strongly look at the model year '16 and newer, those have the most current version of the DCT available on the CTX/NC7..x platforms.

I think the CTX and the NC7..x platforms are both reasonable mid-weight touring bikes. Neither gives you the coverage of Road King or Goldwing. We swapped the tiny NC windshields with Madstad's touring windscreens. Added a Corbin seat to mine, which increased saddle comfort for me. We have gravel roads in our area and the NC platform is probably a bit better suited for those than the CTX platform. Found some gravel while touring too. But we are not off road people. The NC can manage all reasonable conditions. The CTX might be slung a bit low for some of the touring we did this summer on our Great Lakes circle tour trip.

 

[TacomaJD]

I agree with melensdad, DCT is awesome. I am a left leg below knee amputee and that's why I opted for DCT, but now after having it, even if I had 2 fully functional legs, I would still opt for DCT!

It's kinda like DVR....never knew how handy it was til everyone got it and got used to recording shows at their leisure.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[670cc]

Thanks! The lack of resale value of the CTX is the biggest plus to me. You can buy a brand new CTX for $3,500 which is less than folks selling them used. I don't plan on selling anything I buy.

I should try to ride both and also the DCT and manual. I want a touring bike. My GL500 will be my in town bike. so I wonder if the DCT is important for touring. If it has better MPG, that would be a good reason to get one with DCT.

THanks,
Lee in Minneapolis

The gas mileage of the manual vs DCT are essentially the same. If there is any difference, reports I have seen on the forum suggest that the manual is ever so slightly more efficient, but HOW you ride either bike will make more difference in fuel economy than which transmission it has. Since the dual clutch automatic version, like a manual, employs a “direct” mechanical connection of the engine power through the transmission, there are no inherent losses like you might expect with a torque converter style automatic. Both the DCT and the manual use friction plate wet clutch(es). In one version, you shift the gears yourself, in the other it’s done for you with actuators.

The transmission choice is mainly personal preference. The DCT bike does weigh up to 25 pounds more than the manual, for what that’s worth. In my opinion, DCT wouldn’t make a better touring bike than a manual or vice versa. For touring, available choices for aftermarket luggage would be a major factor. I don’t know what is available for the CTX, but I’ve always suspected that more luggage choices were available for the NC700X and NC750X than for the CTX700. A major difference between CTX and NCX is that the NC has the large “frunk” storage space where a fuel tank might normally be, whereas the CTX has a tiny compartment there that might hold just a wallet or pair of gloves.

The CTX “feet forward” riding position is not something I could tolerate, especially for touring, but if that works for you, the low cost of the CTX might be a great value.

 

[LeeInMpls]

My wife and I rode ours on a 4000 mile trip. Both of our bikes have DCT. Is DCT important for touring? Nope. But its convenient and I love it. Its much more convenient in stop-and-go traffic, city riding, etc. Honestly I have no plans to ever go back to a manual transmission after getting a DCT. Perhaps I'm more extreme in my views than others but I'm a 1 bike at a time guy and I just don't see the need for a clutch lever after switching to the DCT. Some of my buddies are nay-sayers and gave me a bit of grief but I ride more than they do so I guess it proves something!

When you look at the DCT bikes strongly look at the model year '16 and newer, those have the most current version of the DCT available on the CTX/NC7..x platforms.

I think the CTX and the NC7..x platforms are both reasonable mid-weight touring bikes. Neither gives you the coverage of Road King or Goldwing. We swapped the tiny NC windshields with Madstad's touring windscreens. Added a Corbin seat to mine, which increased saddle comfort for me. We have gravel roads in our area and the NC platform is probably a bit better suited for those than the CTX platform. Found some gravel while touring too. But we are not off road people. The NC can manage all reasonable conditions. The CTX might be slung a bit low for some of the touring we did this summer on our Great Lakes circle tour trip.

Great! Lotsa good information. I have driven the bottom part of the U.P on the way to my daughter's in Grayling Michigan. It is the way I came when I moved from Michigan to Minneapolis. I certainly want to do the Superior circle in the future. Have also gone over the top of Superior past Thunderbay to visit a friend.
What parts were rugged/gravel on the circle? Did you take side trips? Have had friends do it on Harleys, GL500s and Goldwings. Two friends did the Iron Butt around Superior on Harleys without stopping.

 

[melensdad]

Great! Lotsa good information. I have driven the bottom part of the U.P on the way to my daughter's in Grayling Michigan. It is the way I came when I moved from Michigan to Minneapolis. I certainly want to do the Superior circle in the future. Have also gone over the top of Superior past Thunderbay to visit a friend.
What parts were rugged/gravel on the circle? Did you take side trips? Have had friends do it on Harleys, GL500s and Goldwings. Two friends did the Iron Butt around Superior on Harleys without stopping.

Side trips are where you find the gravel. Around Superior is all paved until you go off to visit something outside the normal travel paths (in both nations). We were on the east side of the lake and talked with a guy who ran his Indian Chieftan down some gravel tracks and he said he'd never recommend it but he was going to a specific place that was not accessible any other way. The entire TransCanadian is paved, 90% of it 2 lanes, but all paved and all nicely maintained. Accidents, especially fatal accidents close the road down. We got stuck for 12 hours due to a fatal crash, fortunately we got a room and slept through most of it but still ended up waiting at the crash site for a couple hours in the morning.

JMO but anyone who does the Iron Butt around Superior is an idiot. It's such a beautiful lake it is worth taking slow, stopping often, talking to locals and seeing what there is to see.

 

[LeeInMpls]

JMO but anyone who does the Iron Butt around Superior is an idiot. It's such a beautiful lake it is worth taking slow, stopping often, talking to locals and seeing what there is to see.

Thanks! Yeah, I am of the same mind as you. My two lodge Brothers who did it are Harley knuckleheads. *Hahah*!
My wife's clan lives in Cape Breton Nova Scotia. I'd like to ride there too.

 

[TheIronWarrior]

The gas mileage of the manual vs DCT are essentially the same. If there is any difference, reports I have seen on the forum suggest that the manual is ever so slightly more efficient, but HOW you ride either bike will make more difference in fuel economy than which transmission it has. Since the dual clutch automatic version, like a manual, employs a “direct” mechanical connection of the engine power through the transmission, there are no inherent losses like you might expect with a torque converter style automatic. Both the DCT and the manual use friction plate wet clutch(es). In one version, you shift the gears yourself, in the other it’s done for you with actuators.

One possibility for the (very very slight) MPG difference between the two might be due to the two clutch setup in the DCT. There's a bit of drag on a disengaged clutch (ie, lever squeezed) due to the oil between the two sets of plates. As the DCT always has a disengaged clutch and the two sets of plates in the disengaged clutch are at different speeds, there is always a tiny bit of loss in the system. That coupled with a little extra weight is going to sip a bit more gas, but I don't imagine it would be enough to make a real difference. The main factor in efficiency (I believe) is going to be how you choose to operate the machine (eg, WOT for accel, late gear changes, etc.)

 

[HarveyM]

A couple years ago I compared the manual and DCT mileage numbers on fuelly (I'm a retired research tech). For 176 bikes the manual averaged 61.61 to 59.66 for the DCT.

 

[MZ5]

I’m not surprised by the Fuelly numbers. The manual _should_ get very slightly better fuel economy because:
1) It weighs slightly less, and
2) It lacks the extra oil pump of the DCT system.

Driving that pump takes fuel, even if only a small amount.

 

[rippin209]

A couple years ago I compared the manual and DCT mileage numbers on fuelly (I'm a retired research tech). For 176 bikes the manual averaged 61.61 to 59.66 for the DCT.

Out of the 176, how many are DCT and how many manual?

If not close to an even split wouldn't that effect average as well?

Still I agree with MZ5 the numbers make sense

 

[670cc]

Here is another thought on obtaining absolute best MPG from an NC700/750X: Depending on the gear chosen and typical riding environment and speeds, some owners improve gas mileage by changing the final drive gearing to taller ratios, lowering engine RPM. The manual transmission model doesn’t care if the final drive ratio is changed, although a speedo correction module is needed if you want the speedometer to read correctly. However the DCT, as I understand it, doesn’t so much like the final drive gear ratio being changed drastically, as the computer monitors the wheel speeds and “gets upset” when they are outside expected parameters.

 

[HarveyM]

Out of the 176, how many are DCT and how many manual?

If not close to an even split wouldn't that effect average as well?

Still I agree with MZ5 the numbers make sense

I redid the calc using current Fuelly data for the NC700x as 64.1 mpg for 503 manual bikes and 62.8 mpg for 127 DCT bikes. I think that's a large enough sample size for decent accuracy