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Air bags?

melensdad

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I hadn’t looked at that, so thank you. Ill have to read about it because at the moment it seems like an even _worse_ deal to pay upfront. You pay more for less, rather than paying more for the same thing, because you can’t upgrade anything at a reduced cost. So, clearly I’m missing something in the fine print that I need to review.
To my mind the best overall deal is to pay $120/year for 3 years and get the $99 upgrade after the 3 year term. This is clearly much cheaper than paying $12/month ($144/year) for 3 years to get the benefit of the $99 upgrade.

From what I can tell, the 1 time payment of $399 only includes a 2 year warranty and does not include the ability to get a $99 hardware upgrade, to that one makes no sense to me at all.

It should be noted that In & Motion charges the same prices for their software services/hardware upgrade regardless of the brand they are paired with, so while KLIM is the popular brand in the USA, if you buy from another clothing manufacturer, the operating costs will remain the same.
 
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Wheelee

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I bit the bullet and bought the Alpinestars Tech Air 5 and it is hot in hot weather but my Klim Latitude is cool in hot weather so a good combination. A friend tested a Dianese Cyclone jacket by hitting as sheep doing a “sky, ground, sky, ground “ thing. Cue BMW GS1200 write off. He got up not a scratch a little worse for wear but fine. He replaced it with the Alpinestars Tech air 5. In Europe the electronic versions are the most popular. The cost in Ireland is €650 or $730. The Alpinestars protects shoulders chest back and neck so offers great protection for a nearly 70 year old, I don’t bounce as well as I used to. They cost more if you have an off about $340 but that is cheaper than hospital billls.
One more advantage of the Alpinestars is that you can upgrade for track for a small fee, and is ok for gravel roads but not jumps.
 
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LearnedButt

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Important: the e-Turtle products are already available in Europe BUT we highly recommend NOT to purchase from overseas for various reasons:
  • The e-Turtle Vest sold in Europe does NOT have FCC approval for the US market.
  • HELITE Moto will not be able to service HELITE products purchased from European vendors.
  • HELITE Moto will not be able to warrant HELITE products purchased from European vendors.
  • HELITE Moto will not be able to provide replacement parts for HELITE products purchased from European vendors.
I understand that the E-Turtle is supposed to come to market in the US before the end of the year so I am cautiously optimistic and will continue to wait.

Frankly, I trust the EU safety standards FAR more than the US ones. I mean, seriously, DOT? total joke.
 

melensdad

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Frankly, I trust the EU safety standards FAR more than the US ones. I mean, seriously, DOT? total joke.
100% agree

If it is DOT approved it is a joke. DOT allows self certification, which is how the brain buckets get DOT stickers. The manufacturer doesn't test it at all, they sell is, claiming they built it to the theoretical standard, do 1 or 2 production runs, sell out their inventory, and its gone before its ever tested. Then they change is about a millimeter and do it again as a new model.
 

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I also dislike the fact that DOT only does post-sale spot checks, and only on a very limited basis. OTOH, the Euro (helmet) standards are VERY easy to game and are gamed on a routine and systematic basis, so in the end I’m not sure the one is actually better than the other.
 

LearnedButt

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This is why I will never buy a helmet that doesn't have a ECE 22.05 certification. Both DOT and ECE are required in their respective countries, so it's more common than the voluntary Snell. SHARP is also good, but it's UK only, so not on most helmets.
 

TheIronWarrior

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SHARP is also good, but it's UK only, so not on most helmets.
I didn't think SHARP was an "approved" rating from a regulatory perspective anywhere, I though the helmets in the UK required ECE or BSI.

Canada is a little funny too. Each province sets their own rules, but in general the requirements are the same. In Nova Scotia, we accept DOT, ECE, Snell, or BSI. There was also a Canadian standard (CSA), but it was withdrawn some time ago, and knowing the way Canada makes rules, I'm picturing it as a hastily made, low quality xerox of DOT with some hand-scribbled notes copied out of BSI/ECE.
Also interesting to note ECE wasn't included in NS until 2016, so before then DOT and Snell were really the only two approved standards.

I tend to look for both DOT and ECE when shopping. I figure meeting both is generally better than meeting one or the other. Plus, as noted above, until 2016 in NS, ECE alone wasn't acceptable, so DOT would be the "legal" standard. Snell is great, but typically only found on expensive helmets (probably to help justify the price, though there isn't much compelling evidence that purchase price and safety are closely related, especially above the few-hundred-dollar mark) and I've never seen a helmet with a BSI kitemark.
 

melensdad

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This is why I will never buy a helmet that doesn't have a ECE 22.05 certification. Both DOT and ECE are required in their respective countries, so it's more common than the voluntary Snell. SHARP is also good, but it's UK only, so not on most helmets.
You can buy a DOT sticker from eBay, Amazon or any local flea market.

Nobody has ever checked my helmets for DOT stickers.

I've ridden across international borders multiple times, nobody checked. I've ridden in quite a few US states, nobody checked. So while people say a DOT helmet is 'required' the fact is that it will never be an issue if you ride with a helmet that is built to a higher standard.


LearnedButt said:
Canada has additional regulations about moose collision safety.
Kinda crazy but I've had 6 or 7 of those creatures run out in front of me over the years.

I live in and area overpopulated with whitetail deer but I've only hit one of those things and it wasn't on a bike.
 

dduelin

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Buy a premium brand helmet and there are no worries if it has a DOT, Snell, or ECE sticker from the flea market.
 

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dduelin

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melensdad

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Buy a premium brand helmet and there are no worries if it has a DOT, Snell, or ECE sticker from the flea market.
There are a lot of fake Arai, Shoei and Schuberth helmets for sale.

Buy a premium brand helmet from a reputable supplier is probably better advice than to simply buy a premium brand helmet.

And from what I can tell, under the new ECE regulations/rules, the newest standard will not meet DOT standards, and visa versa. SNELL is also doing separate certifications for DOT and ECE helmets. I'll choose an ECE over a DOT any day.
 

dduelin

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There are a lot of fake Arai, Shoei and Schuberth helmets for sale.

Buy a premium brand helmet from a reputable supplier is probably better advice than to simply buy a premium brand helmet.

And from what I can tell, under the new ECE regulations/rules, the newest standard will not meet DOT standards, and visa versa. SNELL is also doing separate certifications for DOT and ECE helmets. I'll choose an ECE over a DOT any day.
I forgot that for various reasons people do buy helmets sight unseen. I never have had to to do that, buying helmets from the same local business for the last 16 years.

There’s a lot of controversy about the various standards and which is best and which isn’t and if the best is any better in the real world than the least. There is no agreement on that. What is certain is that accidents play out in arbitrary ways with impacts that cannot be exactly replicated in controlled laboratory conditions so I’m comfortable wearing helmets that meet my standards of comfort, features, and safety and don’t get hung up on a singular certification. Life is managing risk.
 

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Kinda crazy but I've had 6 or 7 of those creatures run out in front of me over the years.

I live in and area overpopulated with whitetail deer but I've only hit one of those things and it wasn't on a bike.
I've never winged a deer or moose myself, but live deer ready to bolt out, as well as deer carcasses, on the side of the highway are an extremely common sight around here. I've had to emergency brake/swerve to miss deer on many occasions. I had a friend driving a truck get hit by a deer. He did not hit the deer, the deer hit him. The impact was behind the rear wheels. They are so flighty, unpredictable, and stupid. A very dangerous combination.

I actually lost an uncle several years ago due to a moose collision. He worked at the CAN/US border between New Brunswick and Maine and didn't make it home after shift one night.
The worst part about moose collisions is the beasts are so large that if you have a moderately sized vehicle or smaller, when you hit them the damn thing basically comes right through the windshield and lands on top of the front seats (and associated occupants). Doesn't help that they are fearless and aggressive, too.
 
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MZ5

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Despite not living near moose country when I owned mine, I sincerely appreciated the fact that SAAB used to do 'moose testing' on all their cars. Elk cause very similar trouble to what moose do, for cars and the people inside. I think Volvo still does some similar testing, even after the change to Chinese ownership.
 

MZ5

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For helmets, I don't give a fig for ECE stickers BECAUSE I live in the USA. The helmets marketed here are rarely to never actually the same thing as what's marketed in Europe (ask any or all of the helmet manufacturers about that, including Arai, Bell, and Shoei), and there's neither compliance nor enforcement testing by ECE authorities here. So, that makes that sticker worth even less to me than the DOT sticker, because at least DOT does _some_ tiny amount of compliance testing. That's also why, to my chagrin, I can't really pay much attention to SHARP's testing. They do great work, but the helmets they test are physically different designs than what's available to me in the USA.
 
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