Are BMW bikes really the best at the moment?

[Afan]

Recently posted a question on ST-owners forum (HERE).
I was looking at the gold medal list of the recently finished 2017 IBR, first 22 riders. Of 22 riders 14 were riding BMW, 4 Honda, 3 Yamaha, 1 Kawasaki. BMW was REALLY dominating. Coincidence? Or BMW is becoming "the best tool" for long rides?
Yes, a rider is more important than a bike, of course. But, don't we all always look for the best tool in the shed, right?
Also, on the recent 13-day trip, I think 70%-80% of bikes we met ("local" cruisers exclude) were Beemers. Coincidence again? Is that because Mr. X rode one around the world, or Mr. Y rode one from Alaska to Argentina?
Beemes are good bikes, out of question. In my own opinion a bit overpriced. Almost two AT for one GSA. According to the (already famous) Consumer Reports Reliability list, very low on the list.

What am I missing?

 

[Deleted member 5383]

So, at least partly answered your own question? ; }

Really though, best for me is all I truly care about, if that much even. I like to ride and not to think about this kind of stuff much and the NC with a few right farkles seems to allow me to do that : }

 

[Afan]

So, at least partly answered your own question? ; }

Really though, best for me is all I truly care about, if that much even. I like to ride and not to think about this kind of stuff much and the NC with a few right farkles seems to allow me to do that : }

I would like to know what do you think why it doesn't fit to you (not talking about the money now)? Just curious...

 

[ld_rider]

What am I missing?

BMWs are fine machines and I think the reason you see quite a few in the IBR is for several reasons...None of which have to do with reliability ;-)

The IBR is a long ride, but for a modern motorcycle 11,000 miles is nothing . So even though it is "long ride" it isn't in any way a measure of a motorcycle's long term reliability. If the IBR was 200,000 miles long, you would see more Hondas in the gold than BMWs, believe me. A 40 year old Goldwing placed in the top 20 and a Ninja 250 (!) also placed very well. Heck, one dude from Japan did the rally on an old Burgman 400cc scooter and another on a two stroke Suzuki triple!

The IBR is actually very easy on a motorcycle. To wit: It is a short ride, so pretty much any motorcycle can run it without blowing up. The rally is run under pretty much ideal conditions for a motorcycle: Very little traffic, steady state cruising, almost zero stop and go traffic, no short runs, nice long interstate runs in the "happy zone" of the engine, etc. All things that are very easy for a modern (or not so modern) engine.

The fact is this: Competing in the IBR isn't really a test of the motorcycle, but of the rider, and you already knew that.


But, some motorcycles are better suited to the specifics of the IBR than others. That doesn't mean they are necessarily great motorcycles. I would put the BMW R1200RT, GS, and GSA in that category, stellar IBR mounts but maybe not great everyday rides or for those looking for a long term relationship with a motorcycle.

In 2011 I ran the IBR on a Honda GL1800. About 1,100 lbs fueled and loaded for the rally. By day 7 or 8 it gets to be a handful, especially in some of the areas you have to go for bonuses. Think gravel road or heavily sloped parking lot or trying to park where there simply isn't much room. Fuel economy is similar to that of a midsize car, so even though I was running the max 11.5 gallons at ah, elevated speeds I had to refuel often.

BMWs are easy handling and lightweight motorcycles, get great fuel economy, have a shaft drive so there is no chain fiddling, can be purchased with integrated bags, GPS, TPMs, Heated seats and grips, cruise control and adaptive suspension for different roads. That is nice bundle of goodies. Yes, BMW has reliability issues, but come on...any bike should last 11,000 miles or so, right?

Well, in the 2015 IBR I was riding with Sam Liles and his wife Sydney and their brand new $30,000 BMW K1600GTL Wonderbike broke after the first leg. Jim Owens, this year's IBR winner, would have had his third (not second) IBR First Place if his final drive didn't puke while leading an earlier IBR only hours from the finish. Nancy LefCourt's BMW broke a final drive this year and didn't finish. Is there a new BMW K1600 that <hasn't> had its waterpump and switchgear replaced?

But....BUTT...if you get a good one, and you are only going 13,000 miles or so and after that you don't care what happens....It could be the <perfect> IBR mount. And for a lot of riders, those Beemers are the best tool for the job. The rest are on FJRs and STs ;-)

Another reason you see a lot of BMWs and especially FJR1300s is because both those marques have a huge and very active support system in place for riders. When the IBR comes around (every two years) those forums light up with support for the FJ and BMW riders. Same with the ST forum but maybe not as much. A call goes out for parts or tires or whatever and literally within minutes someone answers. I'm not saying a rider would pick a particular motorcycle due to the forum support, but word does get around and it is nice to know someone has your back so to speak.

I would be lying if I said on about day 7 of this years IBR I wasn't thinking of how nice it would be behind the 7.6 gallon fuel tank of a new BMW GSA with cruise control, electronic adjustable suspension, heated seat, shaft drive, and adjustable windscreen. I was in West Texas with a headwind and had my throttle pinned at 74MPH ;-)

Then I realized the $25,000 it would cost me <still> wouldn't improve my standing one iota ;-)

EDIT: I want to add that the banquet for the start of the IBR looks like an AARP meeting. Lots of white hair if you get my drift. In addtion, the costs to run the IBR are significant, as is the time needed from your employment. My convoluted guess is that a lot of these guys have significant disposable incomes ( number of professionals, i.e, Physicans, Pilots, Engineers, etc would shock you) and well, if you are in that boat then a BMW (and associated costs) aren't that big of a deal. Some of the motorcycles had $3,600 worth of Clearwater LEDs and Garmin GPSs just to give you an idea.

If you aren't in that boat, then a $3,500 ST1300 or $5,000 FJR1300 makes more sense.

 

[DCTFAN]

FYI
BMW forced to check every R1200 GS bike in the world after reports of critical 'fork damage'. - Motofire

 

[dduelin]

I'm not going to look it up again but Google NHTSA motorcycle recalls, find an appropriate link and ponder the sheer number of them listed for BMWs of all models and types. When you consider how low volume they are compared to Asian brands and the limited number of models per year the marque is far and away over-represented compared to other brands.

 

[Old Can Ride]

The best bike for anyone to ride is the one that fits the rider. Way to many folks purchase a motorcycle based on what another person thinks about a bike. Ride what fits you.........

 

[ld_rider]

Typical response to BMW reliability issues goes along these lines: Pulled from the K1600 forum today....

In 45000 km 2014 GTL

2 Switch Cluster rhd
1 Switch Cluster lhd
3 water pumps
1 complete engine

None except the first rhd Cluster left me stranded, all professionally dealt with by BMW. Happy with the bike

I've been a member of the K1600 forum since before the bikes were even produced. The riders that enjoy a BMW are not idiots, they simply do not place a very high value on reliability. Common on that forum is to compare an Accord with a Ferrari, one stirs the soul and is unreliable, costs too much to maintain and loses thousands in depreciation. The other is an appliance that is inexpensive to own and operate and is reliable as a rock.

If I bought a motorcycle for $30,000 and after 38,0000 miles it needed a new engine and had left me stranded for a problem (switchgear) that has been an issue for years and needed three water pumps I would probably be upset.

The other thing that absolutely floors me on that forum is that most BMW riders measure motorcycle life in years, not miles (!). "I've had a K1600 for three years and it never left me stranded" is a typical retort to a reliability issue <shrugs>.

Anyway, BMW riders aren't idiots, and they pay good money for their rides....It is just to many of them, the superior performance outweighs any reliabilty issues. BMW historically finishes last in reliability data but paradoxially, scores very high with repeat buyers. Different strokes for different folks and it is all good.

 

[Antarius]

BMWs are fine machines.......

This post is spot on.

I would also like to add: Having done extensive work on BMW motorcycles (regular maintenance and unscheduled repairs), I will never own one as long as I do my own work. If I have enough money in the bank account to pay someone else to do the work, sure; But the backwards way a bunch of the processes are to repair stuff on those bikes simply isn't for me.

As LD_Rider said regarding the IBR; I also intend on trying to get an invite to the IBR either in 2019 or 2020, and I will do it on an NC700 or an FJR, not a BMW.

That said, I have ridden plenty of miles on BMW's (around 70,000) and the bikes themselves are fine and reliable. As are most modern bikes. Do I think they are the best or creme of the crop today? No, not at all.

 

[Beemerphile]

Only an idiot would ride a BMW. Don't buy one. They are total crap.

 

[DCTFAN]

Only an idiot would ride a BMW. Don't buy one. They are total crap.

Lately, I get frustrated on the other forums, also.
Totally understand your post

 

[Antarius]

Only an idiot would ride a BMW. Don't buy one. They are total crap.

Haha! I was waiting!

 

[Doc True]

I can't speak for every bike they produce, but I owned a 2007 F650GS for 36,000 miles. Both fork seals blew at 12,000 miles, rear wheel bearings went at 25,000 miles, and the water seals went the first time at 18,000 miles and had to be replaced every 3,000 miles afterwards. It was a wonderfully fun bike to ride and made for a good off-road touring bike, but I will never own another BMW again. If I was given a BMW for free I would sell it the next day for whatever I could get out of it.

 

[Antarius]

I've put tons of miles on BMW's, and they were always reliable as anything else. They're just hard to work on and expensive to work on if you pay someone, in my experience. Then again, I own a KTM as well and it's not like it's any better in that regard. Haha!

 

[Deleted member 5383]

I just don't give an eff.

 

[drdubb]

I've wanted a BMW since I was a kid. The mechanic who lived across the street had one. However, I'm a retired teacher and assume that the maintenance would be hard on my budget. My #1 priority is reliability and ease of ownership. Thus, my NC serves me well. If I decided to ride across the country or to Alaska tomorrow, I would have no hesitation on my Honda.

 

[davidc83]

I had a 2009 BMW G650gs and traded it for the Honda NC700: reason, I got tired of listening to a thumper at Interstate speeds (I was riding to Florida more in 2009-2013); no issues with the bike even after I tried turning it into a submarine in Indiana and riding thru a monsoon from Florida to Indiana. The specs for that BMW and the NC700 are almost identical in HP, mpg, ergonomics. Plastics on the BMW were easy to remove though and the air filter only took 5-8 minutes to replace but the valve checks were more of a pita. My neighbor snow bird riding buddy just sold his 2007 BMW F650 (thumper) and had no issues with the bike in 10 years; reason he sold it-he is in his 70s now and decided he didn't want to ride anymore.

 

[dduelin]

"Only an idiot would ride a BMW. Don't buy one. They are total crap.

"Ask the man that owns one."

Oops, that was for a Packard.

 

[lue42]

I've never owned a BMW but I sure as heck have dreamed about owning one.

However, I am slowly realizing that BMW are to touring and adventure bikes as Harley Davidson is to cruisers. It is an image... almost a cult. Sometimes they are a great choice, sometimes it not and much of the time you are buying into a name, or a club.

My focus is on-road, so adventure bikes like an AT, or BMW GSA is not a direction I am interested in. I used to dream of an R1200RT or even a K series in the future when I want to do some heavy touring. But lately I am not sure about them. Not just because of the latest recall, but for all the reliability issues and sheer cost of ownership.

Who knows what the future will bring. Maybe I will be one of those people fully prepared for the cost and the possible repairs and downtime of a BMW. But I am starting to lean more to a Goldwing. I have met a lot of Goldwing drivers lately and I am really liking them as a group. I haven't researched enough to know anything about the reliability of Goldwing's. I know there is (can be) a big cost for them as well - they like to customize as much as HD owners, if not more.

For now, I continue to be good with the NC. It is a jack of all trades that works for me right now. A daily commuter, occasional long rides and tours, and easy to ride (this is only my 2nd year riding).

 

[Deleted member 5383]

Actually I do give en eff (F). The below problem surfaced when I was researching the purchase of a used BMW. Actually the first horror story I came across was found at ADVrider.com. In the ADVrider thread I read, significant injury was the result of just tooling along slowly on a non-paved road when the axle holders broke off. I'm guessing a phalanx of BMW lawyers fended off any real liability in this and other cases. ...I did wanted to like the bike I test rode because it averaged 60mpg and felt pretty nice (though it really wasn't as smooth or as quick in acceleration as my current NC700X). I've met a number of interesting riders with BMWs that had some adventures to share, and the company certainly had a lot to do with the ADV mindset, and continues to do R&D that is significant, if resulting in more things I really don't need. ...They had one short-lived 650 model that was considerably lighter and set up more like a dualsport that I always hoped I'd find on Craigslist.

F650GS Fork Failure Analysis