Chain Slack

[670cc]

P

Comparing the specs on my '20 vs the '21 using both year's owners manual, the chain slack spec has been changed from the 20's 30-40 mm to the 21's 25-35mm.
I 'm guessing this is due to the either the change in sprocket sizes for both the NC and NCX for '21 and/or the lower ground clearance of the '21 or ?

Good catch. The slack spec change is probably a result of the change in suspension. It could be that with less suspension travel, less slack is needed to deal with chain geometry changes over that range of travel. Sprocket size change alone would not justify a change in chain slack spec.

 

[bigbird]

P

Good catch. The slack spec change is probably a result of the change in suspension. It could be that with less suspension travel, less slack is needed to deal with chain geometry changes over that range of travel. Sprocket size change alone would not justify a change in chain slack spec.

Did you see my edit to my last post regarding the dropping of all DIY stuff from the '21 owner's manual?

 

[670cc]

Comparing the specs on my '20 vs the '21 using both year's owners manual, the chain slack spec has been changed from the 20's 30-40 mm to the 21's 25-35mm.
I 'm guessing this is due to either the change in sprocket sizes for both the NC and NCX for '21 and/or the lower ground clearance of the '21 or ?
The chain for both models of '21 is 114 links, whereas the '20 had 114 for the NC and 112 links for the NCX.

New owners of the '21 should be very vigilant when it comes time to replace chain and sprockets, as they shouldn't go by here say and what's posted on forums, only by what's written in their owner's manual.

Also, all the DIY oil and filter change, DCT filter change, coolant change, and spark plug change instructions are missing from the '21 owner's manual.
Looks like Honda is trying to get all new owners away from doing their own maintenance and relying on dealerships.
Thank goodness for Helm and their service manuals.

You‘re again correct on the ‘21 owners manual changes. I didn’t read the ‘21 manual word for word, but I also don’t see wheel removal procedure. torqure specs, and other important information as was included in prior Honda owners manual. It is sad the direction Honda is going with this.

In Honda’s defense, there seem to be a lot of owners that didn’t bother to make sure they got an owners manual with their bike (new or used), or if they have a manual they don’t read it anyway.

 

[Rabbit]

Also, all the DIY oil and filter change, DCT filter change, coolant change, and spark plug change instructions are missing from the '21 owner's manual.
Looks like Honda is trying to get all new owners away from doing their own maintenance and relying on dealerships.
Thank goodness for Helm and their service manuals.

That really sucks. Seems all the OEM mfgs are trying to prevent us from doing it ourselves. Makes me want to build my own car…

 

[MZ5]

Honda has been hiding maintenance schedules, and to a lesser extent procedures, from their automobile owners for some years. They’ve been accelerating the pace of that campaign of enforced ignorance lately.

It’s a bad direction to go.

 

[Janus]

Comparing the specs on my '20 vs the '21 using both year's owners manual, the chain slack spec has been changed from the 20's 30-40 mm to the 21's 25-35mm.
I 'm guessing this is due to either the change in sprocket sizes for both the NC and NCX for '21 and/or the lower ground clearance of the '21 or ?
The chain for both models of '21 is 114 links, whereas the '20 had 114 for the NC and 112 links for the NCX.

New owners of the '21 should be very vigilant when it comes time to replace chain and sprockets, as they shouldn't go by here say and what's posted on forums, only by what's written in their owner's manual.

Also, all the DIY oil and filter change, DCT filter change, coolant change, and spark plug change instructions are missing from the '21 owner's manual.
Looks like Honda is trying to get all new owners away from doing their own maintenance and relying on dealerships.
Thank goodness for Helm and their service manuals.

With less suspension travel, the swingarm and chain don't move as much vertically and so the tension must be altered accordingly

 

[the Ferret]

This is how I have always done it/seen it done

From Cycle World August 2015


Adjusting your bike’s chain won’t make it any faster, but it’s critical if you want your chain to last. It’s fast, easy, and next to checking your own tire pressure it’s one of the first things any home mechanic should learn. Too tight is as bad as too loose, but it’ll only take minutes to get it right. You should check and adjust your chain every 500 miles (805 km), and more often for a dirt bike. It’s also a great time to look for kinks or rust, and to give your chain a quick cleaning and lubrication, too.

Step 1 Read the owner's manual for the correct amount of drive-chain slack. Most streetbikes also have a sticker on the swingarm.

Step 2 With the engine off, put the bike on its sidestand or centerstand, and shift the transmission into neutral.

Step 3 Find the midway point of the chain between the front and rear sprockets . Push up on the bottom of the chain and note the distance between the full-slack (lower) position and the no-slack (upper) position on the bottom . 1.2–1.6 inches (30–40 mm) is typical for streetbikes, while dirt bikes may need 1.4–2.0 inches (35–50 mm) of slack.

 

[the Ferret]

If you pull down it tightens the slack on the upper chain rail, but if you push up, it also tightens the chain slack on the upper chain rail, does it not?

 

[670cc]

If you pull down it tightens the slack on the upper chain rail, but if you push up, it also tightens the chain slack on the upper chain rail, does it not?

Yes, it does, as long as the wheel and/or the front sprocket can spin freely. Likewise, the illustration in the Honda manual shows the top run is straight across and tight from front to rear sprockets.

 

[showkey]

Thank goodness for Helm and their service manuals.

Just to clarify one point. Helm is the printer and distributor of Honda or other companies manuals.
Honda manuals sold and shipped by Helm are created, edited, approved And Copyrighted by Honda.

 

[bigbird]

Just to clarify one point. Helm is the printer and distributor of Honda or other companies manuals.
Honda manuals sold and shipped by Helm are created, edited, approved And Copyrighted by Honda.

What point are you clarifying that I was unclear about?

 

[670cc]

Looks like Honda is trying to get all new owners away from doing their own maintenance and relying on dealerships.
Thank goodness for Helm and their service manuals.

I did a quick search on the Helm site for Honda automotive service manuals, printed or CDROM. It appears that publication of Honda automotive service manuals ended for model years beyond about 2012, depending on the model. It makes me wonder if Honda might stop creating motorcycle service manuals some day soon. They might offer service information to dealers electronically via a subscription that is unreasonably priced for typical motorcycle owners.

 

[showkey]

What point are you clarifying that I was unclear about?

“Thank goodness for Helm and their service manuals.”

They are not HELM manuals……..they are HONDA manuals. Helm is Honda vendor along with other manufacturers.

This also plays to the other sources of aftermarket manuals like Chiltons and Haynes that are not Honda manuals and the info and data in them may or may not be accurate or it’s generic specification and data.

 

[bigbird]

“Thank goodness for Helm and their service manuals.”

They are not HELM manuals……..they are HONDA manuals. Helm is Honda vendor along with other manufacturers.

This also plays to the other sources of aftermarket manuals like Chiltons and Haynes that are not Honda manuals and the info and data in them may or may not be accurate or it’s generic specification and data.

If anyone has ever browsed the Helm website, it is very obvious that it is a genuine Honda service manual. It has a Honda part number. And the owner’s manual makes it very clear that Helm is the recommended vendor for that service manual, not the dealer.
I disregarded the fact that most owners do not read their owner’s manual from stem to stern.

 

[MZ5]

I did a quick search on the Helm site for Honda automotive service manuals, printed or CDROM. It appears that publication of Honda automotive service manuals ended for model years beyond about 2012, depending on the model. It makes me wonder if Honda might stop creating motorcycle service manuals some day soon. They might offer service information to dealers electronically via a subscription that is unreasonably priced for typical motorcycle owners.

Yes, that sounds about right to me (~2012 as last year for their automotive svc manuals). And yes, I agree that they unquestionably want $$ every month forever in exchange for ‘access to’ manual pages. They do NOT want you to have that info, because then you could cut off their ongoing revenue stream. They only want you to have ‘access’ for as long as you keep paying.

It’s the new preferred form of business, at least in the States. The ‘bigs’ want a piece of your earnings forever. As Blackrock recently said, they want people to own nothing (rent everything) and be happy about it. That’s about as un-American as it gets, to me, but that’s where they’re trying to push us.

 

[the Ferret]

Good news! The garage is only ~95 yet!
(-:

I just did a quick check on the kickstand. I didn’t rotate the tire to check multiple points, so take this for what it’s worth.

If I push up and pull down, my chain slack is 1 3/4” at the moment. If I do _not_ pull down, but instead just let the chain fall from the pushed-up position, the slack is 1 1/2”.

So, in the particular spot on my bike’s chain where I just happened to check, and with the bike on the kickstand, I get basically 1/4” difference in slack when pushing _and_ pulling, vs. just pushing.

1/4" would be 6mm

 

[halfmt1]

Yes, that sounds about right to me (~2012 as last year for their automotive svc manuals). And yes, I agree that they unquestionably want $$ every month forever in exchange for ‘access to’ manual pages. They do NOT want you to have that info, because then you could cut off their ongoing revenue stream. They only want you to have ‘access’ for as long as you keep paying.

It’s the new preferred form of business, at least in the States. The ‘bigs’ want a piece of your earnings forever. As Blackrock recently said, they want people to own nothing (rent everything) and be happy about it. That’s about as un-American as it gets, to me, but that’s where they’re trying to push us.

"Own nothing (rent everything)" I agree on this point, this trend has been increasing over the years in a lot of products and services. It is discouraging to know that everything that is subscription based is just to pump you for money forever. It is too easy to get caught up in this, and to see too much money automatically removed from your bank account every month. Some companies even try to make it difficult to figure out how to cancel the subscriptions, I try not to fall into this trap.

 

[mrbios]

When the sprockets are new the tension on the chain is the same. As the sprockets wear-out if the tire is rotated the chain will go from zero slack to almost too loose. Always rotate the wheel to find where the chain is tightest then adjust. Then rotate and fine the loosest part and re-measure. If that reading is beyond the max slack the sprockets and usually chain should be replaced. I run chains well past this point but there is a great risk of failure and you could get stranded or the engine could get cracked depending where the chain breaks.

 

[davidc83]

"Own nothing (rent everything)" I agree on this point, this trend has been increasing over the years in a lot of products and services. It is discouraging to know that everything that is subscription based is just to pump you for money forever. It is too easy to get caught up in this, and to see too much money automatically removed from your bank account every month. Some companies even try to make it difficult to figure out how to cancel the subscriptions, I try not to fall into this trap.

Agree, and Apple just announced they were going to start a subscription for the Iphones-not to buy the phones but to lease them via a monthly subscription service; one part of the subscription service, when Apple releases a new Iphone, the subscriber receives a new phone.

 

[MZ5]

So…the exact same thing the major wireless carriers did for a decade or more?