bmega
New Member
I read through @telecam (@tumo on the UK site I think) thread on a similar problem he was having with his DCT and his 3 month saga in 2018. I’ve only been able to find a few somewhat related issues on the web so I thought I would share my experience in case others have suggestions or could benefit. I have a 2014 NC700XD DCT purchased new from dealer in May 2015. I’ve put 28,000 miles on it; mostly commuting (about 30 miles round trip daily including riding home for lunch) and in town miles. Other than the starter switch relay recall, I’ve done all of my own maintenance. I use Honda brand recommended oil and change every 4000 miles and I change both the oil filter (K&N) and the DCT filter (OEM) at each change. Lithium battery in good shape installed January 2019.
A few years ago (probably sometime in 2017) the DCT indicator showed error code 52 – “neutral switch stuck off.” The neutral switch worked normally despite this error and since this error doesn’t impact the rideability of the bike I just lived with it. I cleared it a few times, but it always came back at some point although not on every ride. While the error code is always stored until it’s cleared, it would show as a current error on probably half of my rides. I eventually bought all parts, gaskets and seals needed to replace the neutral switch, but didn’t rush into the job. I just figured that it was some electrical anomaly that would hopefully be remedied by replacing it at some point.
Then a few weeks ago (mid September 2020) I was on the way to work, slowed down for a stop light and the DCT jerked hard as it was trying to downshift then went into limp mode with flashing dash on gear indicator. I was only about ½ mile away so I rode in limp mode back home. I used the service procedure to read the DTC codes: 52 (neutral switch - which has been there for years) and now error 57 too. Error 57 “gearshift mechanism malfunction” according the service manual. I had heard a tick tick tick sound just before DCT started jerking and went into error so I assumed (yeah, I know) that the shifter motor was likely the problem after 28,000 miles of mostly in-town use so I went ahead and dropped $192 and got it ordered. Took 3 weeks to arrive from MotoSport since USPS lost it in transit. Finally got it, replaced it and replaced the neutral switch at the same time while I had everything apart. I did not clear the error codes or do the clutch initialize learning procedure. Since I didn’t replace the clutch assembly or the PCM, the clutch learning procedure is not necessary according to the manual. And I would clear the error codes later. Hopped on the bike and rode it around town for 20 minutes. Seemed to do fine with only one time during the ride where shifting down seemed less-than-smooth, but since I was hyper-aware of DCT performance after doing the repair, I figured I was just imagining things.
Next day I attempted to ride it to work. Again, about ½ mile from home at a stoplight, it went into limp mode but this time not with noticeable jerking. I got out of the intersection, turned it off/on, heard it drop into neutral, started it then rode back home. During the short ride back home it still seemed “unsure” about downshifting is the only way I can describe it. Maybe slightly out-of-sync with what the shift indicator was showing? Upshifting seems normal. Error code was 57 again when I checked it. Error 52 (stuck off neutral switch) has not come back since replacing it.
That night I noticed that my last oil change was just over a year ago. Even though it’s been only 3000 miles (rainy 12 months), I was actually overdue by a few weeks timewise for a lube. I’m thinking, seriously? The initial response to seemingly every mechanical post says “did you check oil? battery?” I had checked the battery, which is fine, and I knew I only had 3K on the oil, but forgot to account for time. So I changed the oil and filter (including the DCT filter as always) and also decided to perform the clutch initialization learning procedure, and cleared all error codes. Went for a ride and it seemed to do very well, again with the exception of one instance where it seemed to hang for a moment in 2nd before dropping down to 1st (again, was I just imagining that one hiccup?) but otherwise it did great for a 30 minute stop-and-go in town ride during which I was intentionally working the heck out of the DCT.
Next morning rode it to work. Again I noticed a downshift hesitation at one stoplight, but made it to work without a problem (7 miles). On the way home from work that day, at the second stoplight, same issue – no jerking, but it went into limp mode, I hobbled to the side of the road, turned ignition off-on, seemed to reset itself then rode the rest of the way home, again with it seeming to be unsure of itself when slowing/downshifting. Hard to describe and even harder to analyze in traffic. Error code 57.
The service manual also mentions TR sensor malfunction as a potential reason for error code 57. This error code seems to be interconnected with other codes including 27. The manual points you back to the diagnostic procedures for shift drum position malfunction which focuses on shifter motor and the TR sensor.
Next up in the shotgun repair approach? New TR sensor ordered. While it is on the way, I decided to start peeling away all the parts of the bike necessary to actually access the connector plug. The sensor itself on the DCT is easy to access down near the shifter motor, but it’s unbelievable where and how Honda affixed the plug/connector at the other end of the wire should you need to replace the sensor assembly. It almost seems intentionally difficult. They welded a unique metal tab to a cross member of the frame behind the PCM, under the frunk, to which the TR sensor’s connector plug first snaps onto, then the wire from the main wiring harness snaps into the TR sensor’s connector. It took me 3 hours of disassembly to get to this one connector, and even then I still couldn’t dislodge it from the metal tab. It has a catch-tab on the back side of the metal which you can’t see even though your bike is in 125 pieces and unidentifiable as a motorcycle. At first I thought the metal tab had something to do with grounding. Nope. Only plastic touches that tab. And unless there is some reason I’m not aware of, I’m not reconnecting it to that metal tab. I can literally zip-tie the connection 5 inches from its current location, it still be protected from the weather, and make this about a 10 minute job in the future. I ended up snapping off the plastic catch that affixed it to the metal tab to free it. Now I’m ready for the new sensor to arrive, install, and hopefully figure out how to put the bike back together.
While disconnecting a ton of wiring surrounding and connected to the PCM to finally get down to the TR sensor connector, I began to pull the PCM from the plastic box that it nests into. When I did this, live ants carrying their eggs came spewing from the PCM box and wiring (not the PCM module itself since it is sealed, but the box surrounding the module - see picture). There were hundreds if not thousands of them that scattered to different parts of the bike. Keep in mind that up to this point I have taken apart almost the entire top half of the bike and haven’t seen a single bug. I’ll occasionally see an ant on the bike depending on the season, but that makes sense as I have to store my bike outside, no garage, no driveway, etc. I have a tarp staked to the ground that I park on at night and I cover the bike when rain is expected, but with pop-up thunderstorms, she’ll get drenched without warning sometimes. But I wasn’t expecting a fully active ant nest deep in a bike that gets used most days of the week. I constantly perform maintenance – including the 500 mile chain clean/lube and a full wash at least once a month. No sign of ants when I’m doing all this maintenance and inspections. These are “sugar ants” Argentine or Pharaoh ants. I don’t carry food on/in the bike and there are rarely dead bugs on the bike that would provide a protein meal for the colony. They don’t bite and as far as I can tell they can’t/don’t chew wiring, but they were inside connector housings and inside the wire runs that have the loose jacket tubing (not where electrical tape is used). Were ants causing the DTC or some sort of electrical short? I’ve had no other electrical issues, so for now I’m ruling out the ants as the cause. The connections themselves are very tight so I don’t see where they could get in and cause an actual short where the pins insert to their respective connectors. I put the cover on the bike, sealed the electrical connector tips and set off a bug fogger in there. Lots of debate on whether this should be done; whether it’s safe or not, etc. etc. but I want the ants gone. And yeah even if that just scatters them elsewhere (away from the bike), it’s better than them residing in my wiring harness.
The service manual focuses on the shifter motor and TR sensor as the first diagnostic tasks for error 57, but the if there is an actual gearshift mechanical issue, it’s a bigger task than I think I can handle. A few posts I’ve found mention a snapped shifter pin, but I assume that I would not have (mostly) successful 20-30 minute rides amongst my repair attempts if I had a snapped shifter pin, right? I can’t find a reference to “shifter pin” in the service manual. Are they referring to the gearshift spindle and gearshift arm? That would be one of the mechanical tasks to complete in response to error code 57. It would include inspection of the spindle and return spring for fatigue or damage. I would just replace the whole gearshift spindle assembly, shifter guide plate, drum shifter, ratchet pawls, and plungers if I got that deep into it. Posts about the shifter pin mention that it’s an easy replacement, but spindle replacement seems fairly complex.
A few years ago (probably sometime in 2017) the DCT indicator showed error code 52 – “neutral switch stuck off.” The neutral switch worked normally despite this error and since this error doesn’t impact the rideability of the bike I just lived with it. I cleared it a few times, but it always came back at some point although not on every ride. While the error code is always stored until it’s cleared, it would show as a current error on probably half of my rides. I eventually bought all parts, gaskets and seals needed to replace the neutral switch, but didn’t rush into the job. I just figured that it was some electrical anomaly that would hopefully be remedied by replacing it at some point.
Then a few weeks ago (mid September 2020) I was on the way to work, slowed down for a stop light and the DCT jerked hard as it was trying to downshift then went into limp mode with flashing dash on gear indicator. I was only about ½ mile away so I rode in limp mode back home. I used the service procedure to read the DTC codes: 52 (neutral switch - which has been there for years) and now error 57 too. Error 57 “gearshift mechanism malfunction” according the service manual. I had heard a tick tick tick sound just before DCT started jerking and went into error so I assumed (yeah, I know) that the shifter motor was likely the problem after 28,000 miles of mostly in-town use so I went ahead and dropped $192 and got it ordered. Took 3 weeks to arrive from MotoSport since USPS lost it in transit. Finally got it, replaced it and replaced the neutral switch at the same time while I had everything apart. I did not clear the error codes or do the clutch initialize learning procedure. Since I didn’t replace the clutch assembly or the PCM, the clutch learning procedure is not necessary according to the manual. And I would clear the error codes later. Hopped on the bike and rode it around town for 20 minutes. Seemed to do fine with only one time during the ride where shifting down seemed less-than-smooth, but since I was hyper-aware of DCT performance after doing the repair, I figured I was just imagining things.
Next day I attempted to ride it to work. Again, about ½ mile from home at a stoplight, it went into limp mode but this time not with noticeable jerking. I got out of the intersection, turned it off/on, heard it drop into neutral, started it then rode back home. During the short ride back home it still seemed “unsure” about downshifting is the only way I can describe it. Maybe slightly out-of-sync with what the shift indicator was showing? Upshifting seems normal. Error code was 57 again when I checked it. Error 52 (stuck off neutral switch) has not come back since replacing it.
That night I noticed that my last oil change was just over a year ago. Even though it’s been only 3000 miles (rainy 12 months), I was actually overdue by a few weeks timewise for a lube. I’m thinking, seriously? The initial response to seemingly every mechanical post says “did you check oil? battery?” I had checked the battery, which is fine, and I knew I only had 3K on the oil, but forgot to account for time. So I changed the oil and filter (including the DCT filter as always) and also decided to perform the clutch initialization learning procedure, and cleared all error codes. Went for a ride and it seemed to do very well, again with the exception of one instance where it seemed to hang for a moment in 2nd before dropping down to 1st (again, was I just imagining that one hiccup?) but otherwise it did great for a 30 minute stop-and-go in town ride during which I was intentionally working the heck out of the DCT.
Next morning rode it to work. Again I noticed a downshift hesitation at one stoplight, but made it to work without a problem (7 miles). On the way home from work that day, at the second stoplight, same issue – no jerking, but it went into limp mode, I hobbled to the side of the road, turned ignition off-on, seemed to reset itself then rode the rest of the way home, again with it seeming to be unsure of itself when slowing/downshifting. Hard to describe and even harder to analyze in traffic. Error code 57.
The service manual also mentions TR sensor malfunction as a potential reason for error code 57. This error code seems to be interconnected with other codes including 27. The manual points you back to the diagnostic procedures for shift drum position malfunction which focuses on shifter motor and the TR sensor.
Next up in the shotgun repair approach? New TR sensor ordered. While it is on the way, I decided to start peeling away all the parts of the bike necessary to actually access the connector plug. The sensor itself on the DCT is easy to access down near the shifter motor, but it’s unbelievable where and how Honda affixed the plug/connector at the other end of the wire should you need to replace the sensor assembly. It almost seems intentionally difficult. They welded a unique metal tab to a cross member of the frame behind the PCM, under the frunk, to which the TR sensor’s connector plug first snaps onto, then the wire from the main wiring harness snaps into the TR sensor’s connector. It took me 3 hours of disassembly to get to this one connector, and even then I still couldn’t dislodge it from the metal tab. It has a catch-tab on the back side of the metal which you can’t see even though your bike is in 125 pieces and unidentifiable as a motorcycle. At first I thought the metal tab had something to do with grounding. Nope. Only plastic touches that tab. And unless there is some reason I’m not aware of, I’m not reconnecting it to that metal tab. I can literally zip-tie the connection 5 inches from its current location, it still be protected from the weather, and make this about a 10 minute job in the future. I ended up snapping off the plastic catch that affixed it to the metal tab to free it. Now I’m ready for the new sensor to arrive, install, and hopefully figure out how to put the bike back together.
While disconnecting a ton of wiring surrounding and connected to the PCM to finally get down to the TR sensor connector, I began to pull the PCM from the plastic box that it nests into. When I did this, live ants carrying their eggs came spewing from the PCM box and wiring (not the PCM module itself since it is sealed, but the box surrounding the module - see picture). There were hundreds if not thousands of them that scattered to different parts of the bike. Keep in mind that up to this point I have taken apart almost the entire top half of the bike and haven’t seen a single bug. I’ll occasionally see an ant on the bike depending on the season, but that makes sense as I have to store my bike outside, no garage, no driveway, etc. I have a tarp staked to the ground that I park on at night and I cover the bike when rain is expected, but with pop-up thunderstorms, she’ll get drenched without warning sometimes. But I wasn’t expecting a fully active ant nest deep in a bike that gets used most days of the week. I constantly perform maintenance – including the 500 mile chain clean/lube and a full wash at least once a month. No sign of ants when I’m doing all this maintenance and inspections. These are “sugar ants” Argentine or Pharaoh ants. I don’t carry food on/in the bike and there are rarely dead bugs on the bike that would provide a protein meal for the colony. They don’t bite and as far as I can tell they can’t/don’t chew wiring, but they were inside connector housings and inside the wire runs that have the loose jacket tubing (not where electrical tape is used). Were ants causing the DTC or some sort of electrical short? I’ve had no other electrical issues, so for now I’m ruling out the ants as the cause. The connections themselves are very tight so I don’t see where they could get in and cause an actual short where the pins insert to their respective connectors. I put the cover on the bike, sealed the electrical connector tips and set off a bug fogger in there. Lots of debate on whether this should be done; whether it’s safe or not, etc. etc. but I want the ants gone. And yeah even if that just scatters them elsewhere (away from the bike), it’s better than them residing in my wiring harness.
The service manual focuses on the shifter motor and TR sensor as the first diagnostic tasks for error 57, but the if there is an actual gearshift mechanical issue, it’s a bigger task than I think I can handle. A few posts I’ve found mention a snapped shifter pin, but I assume that I would not have (mostly) successful 20-30 minute rides amongst my repair attempts if I had a snapped shifter pin, right? I can’t find a reference to “shifter pin” in the service manual. Are they referring to the gearshift spindle and gearshift arm? That would be one of the mechanical tasks to complete in response to error code 57. It would include inspection of the spindle and return spring for fatigue or damage. I would just replace the whole gearshift spindle assembly, shifter guide plate, drum shifter, ratchet pawls, and plungers if I got that deep into it. Posts about the shifter pin mention that it’s an easy replacement, but spindle replacement seems fairly complex.