DCT Fault. Argh!

rmezei

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I know this may not mean much and you said you checked your connections but when I installed my alarm I learned the hard way what it meant not to have tight connections to the battery terminals - what looked like tight to me were NOT and the bike acted weird, like it would not shift and would flip between gears and eventually shut off - I super glued my connection and ever since no problems. I realized quickly that for a DCT proper tight connections are CRUCIAL.
 

cattmando

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I'll check again but I'm an old hand with battery terminals. I'm removing (again) all the auxiliary stuff, running lights, horn, add on tail lights and brake lights. Also the LED headlight.

I used Rotella standard 10W40, which I've used for years. It meets the correct specs per Honda. I've used it for years with good luck in the STs.

Have an appointment at Route 66 Honda for July 23, earliest date. In the meantime, I'm gonna source a set of stock size tires. Needs a set anyway. 66 is Vehicle Speed Sensor. Haven't figured out the latch on the connector to run the test. Partzilla sez $95 but I'm not gonna start swapping parts. Except, I am gonna install some stock size tires. It's about ready anyway. Ran the current set for 14,000 miles. Not completely shot but close enough. I was gonna change'em when I got to Chicago.

She's going back to pretty much stock.

Anyone interested in a MotoTech bash plate for a DCT? Only been over a couple curbs.
 
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cattmando

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One more silly item: Just ordered replacement registration sticker yesterday. My plate runs out on 6-30. In Illinois. <Heavy Sigh> When it rains, it pours.
 

cattmando

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Figured out the VSS black 3p connector. Tests show it's throwing high voltage, Battery voltage in (12+), 7.8 VDC out versus expected 4.75 to 5.25. Could be the problem but I don't want to start throwing parts at it at $100 a pop.

New tires ordered, $140/pair off ebay. I'll install them next week and go from there.

Anyone else had a failed VS Sensor?
 

cattmando

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Just reread StaleSK's thread from late 2016. His turned out to be a broken "shift pin" and two others chimed in with the same problem. On this thread, no one has mentioned that as a possibility. Haven't found the offending part in the diagrams but if it's mechanical, I can replace it.

As stated above, VS Sensor failed it's test with high voltage. I always figure, like blood pressure, high is better than none at all. :D
 

b_rubenstein

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I'm sure the moderators are going to hate me for this, but I don't think Rotella (T5) 10W40 is wet clutch approved (Jaso MA, MA2). Since the double clutch uses oil pressure to work you might be adding to your problems....

Rotella T5 is either 10w-30 or 15w-40. What the owners manual explicitly states not to use is oil marked as Energy Conserving, and doesn't mention MA2. Anyone concerned as to whether or not a specific Rotella is suitable for use in a motorcycle with a wet clutch should address the question to Shell. Internet forums are rarely reliable sources factual information.
 

DCTFAN

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Since no one has asked:
Is your idle too high? Does the bike seem to creep forward when stopped?
DCT will not engage D if the idle is too high.
Usually, the Clutch Reinit Procedure fixes this and you noted you have not been successful with it.
Just another thought.

Stranded yesterday near Tuba City. AZ. Had a glitch in Grand Canyon South, stuck in traffic. Selected neutral, not normal for me. After a couple minutes turned the engine off. When traffic started moving, turned ignition on but no neutral light, pushing buttons did nothing. Turned ignition off and on, got neutral and started normally. Carried on toward Tuba City. 2 miles east of US89 and US160 intersection, lost all motive force just free wheeling. Gear selector said 2, couldn't gear neutral light. Slight "click" as if gear was partially selected. Dead in the water. Note this was while driving, not at a stop. Coasted into a wide spot off the road and called for help.

Friend drove over from Kingman (260 miles) to rescue me. Got home at 3 this morning.
.Fiddled this morning until got neutral light. After reading on this site and in the service manual, tried several things to no avail. Bike starts and runs fine but will not shift out of neutral.

Worst part, this was supposed to be the start of a 3 month trip. Now, even if I get her going, I don't feel I can trust the bike for a 10,000 mile journey way out into Nova Scotia. :(

And, I'm going to miss my grand daughter's birthday in Illinois. :(

DCT shows 86 (Communication Fault) and 9 (Clutch Line EOP Sensor). Frustration doesn't begin to cover it. I don't feel I can trust this bike for a long trip. At 30,000 miles, similar age and mileage to other folks who have had the broken shifter pin. Is That a likely outcome or am I missing something simple?
 

HarveyM

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Rotella T5 is either 10w-30 or 15w-40. What the owners manual explicitly states not to use is oil marked as Energy Conserving, and doesn't mention MA2. Anyone concerned as to whether or not a specific Rotella is suitable for use in a motorcycle with a wet clutch should address the question to Shell. Internet forums are rarely reliable sources factual information.

You're right I shouldn't have lumped in MA2. My mistake.
 

cattmando

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670cc's post (#34 above) has given me the info I need to replace this pin, if that's the problem. Pin is cheap enough ($9 at Partzilla.com) but haven't located the gasket yet on the parts diagram. Doesn't show on either the right crankcase cover nor the gasket A nor gasket B diagrams. Still looking. Standard tranny parts list doesn't show a gasket either, maybe it's just gasket sealer. I've used it before.

The DUAL CLUTCH removal is covered on page 12-69 but the shift drum parts don't show and are not mentioned. The shift drum shows on page 14-18 but shift pin is already removed along with the primary drive gear. So, no photos show the offending part in the service manual.

Sent a note to Samurai who posted about them same symptoms on May 1, this year.

This post has lots of info and it's what showing the best diagrams: Flashing dash gear indication
Lootzyan and DCTFan have it all documented. Hint on Lootzyan's post mentions page 12-4, and, Viola! There it is. His is a photo, mine is a drawing, but at least I can now see what I'm working with.

I've done similar on several bikes over the years, just grease monkey work.

So, either a broken pin (tho why would it work sometimes and not others?) or the $100 Vehicle Speed Sensor. Or both? I have a month to fiddle before my appointment at the Harley/Honda shop, and no alternative for getting on the road, so might as well dig in. OTOH, it's 100 every day for the forseeable future and my garage is not air conditioned. (already been out there off 'n on a couple hours this morning.)
 

cattmando

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Side note: I can not get the 10mm mount bolt to break loose on the VS Sensor. Can't get a socket in there, tried three different box end wrenches, including a 6-side. Can't get leverage around all the other parts in the way. <Another Heavy Sigh>

Got it. Longer and better quality 12 point (Craftsman). It was too tight (I've had this before on the NC, factory spec is 3 shades of purple tight. :( )

Page 12-3 shows another special tool, Gear Holder 2.5. 07724-0010-100. US only so expect it's not really needed. I've always used screw driver tips to hold gears when needed. :D
 
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670cc

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The right crankcase cover on the manual transmission NC700 engine has no gasket, so I assume the DCT version would be the same way, hence the reason you don’t see it on the drawing. The cover and crank cases are machined so precisely that all you need is a 1/16 inch bead of Three Bond sealant to seal the cover. The shop manual should detail that process for you, and call out the recommended sealant.

I've installed a right side cover twice with this sealant method and it is tedious, but results in no oil leaks whatsoever. The trick is to put as little on there as you can but have a continuous, unbroken bead.
 
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cattmando

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Thanks. 670. As I assumed. 3-Bond is good stuff. I usually use Permatex Form-A-Gasket, probably the same stuff.

And, you are correct, procedure is covered on page 12-67, third pic down.
 

cattmando

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Found another tip in the manual: Page 12-7 (for my 15 DCT) shows wiring diagram for all the DCT wires and any associated wiring. The VS Sensor gets it's 12V from same fuse as the Stop/Horn. I am notorious for not disconnecting the battery when working on such, and have been into both the horn and stop lights in the recent past. Possible I blew the VSS?

The VS Sensor works by sensing 4 poles which pass by as the counter shaft sprocket rotates, every 90 degrees. Voltage fluctuates from 0 to nominal 5VDC. Since mine is throwing high voltage, possible it's throwing signals the system can't handle. I had an ABS rear wheel sensor fail on my 01 ST, but it was doing nothing. Anyone else had a VSS fail?
 

showkey

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Burnt or blown speed sensor has not come up.

But speed sensor errors have been reported after disassembling and accessory installs. Loose or unplugged or bad connections are usually the problem.
If I recall on other symptom of the bad connection of the speed sensor/speedometer error was speedometer stop working. Some of these past reported issues might be compromised connections to the speedometer head. The wiring from the PCM to the combination meter is a data stream. Multiple signals on the same wire BCAN. If the speedometer stopped working I don’t think the bike stoped shifting. Also the speedometer stopped working was likely to the infamous battery connections.

If a wire involved with the speed sensor was pinched under bracket and shorting or intermittently compromised could cause weird symptoms. This is only likely when the bike is worked on.
The fact your bike lost a rear axle nut and the axle was coming out while riding ..........does mean the bike has a history.

Other compromised wiring problems ( that are not always obvious) are when a connector is plugged in but not all the way. In the industry this is known as “soft set”. Well known to cause all sorts of strange symptoms. Again likely in areas where other work was done.
 
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cattmando

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This is good stuff. No mention of a broken pin, but same symptoms. Maybe the loose star bolt results in wear which causes the pin to break?

I have more than enough info to warrant pulling the side cover. Soon's I'm done with the Kawasaki, I will start this journey into the dark, dank, nasty bowels of the DCT. :D
 

cattmando

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Side cover is off. I'll post some pics from my phone in a bit. Looking at the drawing on Service Manual pg 12-4, the roller in the center ofm them page which should rest in the star is not fully engaged in any of the indents. Haven't started to pull the clutch pack yet, may not be necessary. More to come.

Hmmm, Shift Drum Star Bolt. I'm assuming "Shift Drum Star" is #9 on the parts diagram, Gear Shift Drum, called Center, Shift Drum. It's the part into which the shift pin screws, and assume that is the bolt to which it's been ,,referred as "loose".

I'm hesitant to start taking more apart but don't feel as if I have much choice at this point.

I'm using this diagram along with SM pg 12-4 as references for specific pieces. Everything to the right of the shift pin hs to come out. A little scary as there are little bitty parts in there. I tend to loose a loose spring (sprooooiiiiiiiiiiiiiing!) into the dark recesses of the garage when I take such things apart.
Honda Motorcycle 2015 OEM Parts Diagram for GEARSHIFT DRUM (2) - Partzilla.com

Have you ever replaced a lost spring with one out of a ball point? I have. :D

OBTW, the shift pin is used in many bikes and quads, including the VFR 1200.
 
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670cc

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Side cover is off. I'll post some pics from my phone in a bit. Looking at the drawing on Service Manual pg 12-4, the roller in the center ofm them page which should rest in the star is not fully engaged in any of the indents. Haven't started to pull the clutch pack yet, may not be necessary. More to come.

From a quick look at the drawing, it appears to me that the star wheel and adjacent roller is a detent device for the shifter drum. If the detent isn’t working, the drum would be free to position outside specified locations and possibly cause jumping out of gear.
 

cattmando

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The roller and spring pictured on pg 12-4 are intact and in contact with one of the points instead of in a detent. This implies a problem as it should be seated in the detent. <edit> I can locate these parts on the parts diagram. The detent roller is part #17 called Stopper, Drum

The roller, part #35 on the parts diagram, is behind the "star" (Center, Shift Drum) so I haven't seen it yet.
 
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cattmando

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The shift pin and bolt, AKA the Star Bolt are the culprits. My shift pin was loose in the Center, Shift Drum "Star". When the shift pin (Pin, Shifter) (Star Bolt) backs out, the star can move forward just enough to come off the pin behind it (#35 Roller) and loose it's orientation in relation to the shift drum. If this is the problem, mine must have been _just_ loose enough because I rode it all around town on Monday, no problem.
 
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