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DCT is NOT automatic transmission...

Afan

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I read somewhere (not sure if it was here on the forum) where the author of the article/video explains why is wrong to call a bike with DCT as "automatic". If I remember well, it was something like "it has manual shift padds", and/or "scooters are automatic", "it's not automatic than dual clutch transmission", etc.

Anybody read/watched it?

Have some kind of discussion about DCT and I would like to present the article/video.

Thanks.
 
Honda calls it an automatic transmission. Honda designed, built, and marketed the bike so I think they can call it an automatic if they want.

My Ford car has a DCT. Ford calls it an automatic, too.

This topic was beat to death (or so I thought) in an earlier thread.

Honda calls it an automatic in various marketing materials. Here is one example on the powersports.honda site.

89FA7B7C-A95E-4ED7-B43B-6D34C110979B.jpg

Here is a screen shot from the Honda CTX overview, which plainly calls it an automatic transmission.

84C0888B-7306-4FAB-B23F-78808B40C9B5.jpg
 
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I think it’s a mistake to market the DCT as primarily an automatic transmission. The reluctance of the broader market to embrace that is a problem.

You call it advanced clutchless shifting, like an Audi or F1, that can *also* do automatic if desired, I think you would generate much more acceptance.

Look how bikes are starting to focus on “shift assist” for clutchless shifting at speed (yeah BMW, I’m looking at you).


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Car transmissions are still auto if they have a way of manually selecting.

So yes, it's still auto.
 
I think it’s a mistake to market the DCT as primarily an automatic transmission. The reluctance of the broader market to embrace that is a problem.

You call it advanced clutchless shifting, like an Audi or F1, that can *also* do automatic if desired, I think you would generate much more acceptance.

Look how bikes are starting to focus on “shift assist” for clutchless shifting at speed (yeah BMW, I’m looking at you).


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My 2010 Chevy Malibu LTZ has 6 speeds with Drive mode and Manual mode with paddle shifters on the steering wheel. Would you call it advanced clutchless shifting? Nah. It's automatic. People are just too stuck to manuals to consider alternatives. I don't think it has anything to do with the various labels. More people would love it if more people tried it.

If it weren't for my "disability", I would not have a DCT bike. But now that I have put a couple thousand miles on one, I love it!

Still struggling not to buy a leftover VFR1200X DCT bike.

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Why does it have to be classified as one or the other? It's neither; it's both; it's different. It's a Dual, Clutch, Transmission.

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It’s a short term marketing issue - logic has nothing to do with it. There’s a negative reaction to an automatic bike among many/most riders. I’m quite certain if a lot of riders tried a DCT they’d love it.

I’d just like to have a choice of more than one manufacturer and 4 or 5 models of bikes with DCT. So whatever gets this technology widely adopted is good with me.


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Just to add - I drive a Kenworth Semi for work. It has an "automatically shifted" manual transmission. Of course it is different from a duel clutch system in that it uses computer controlled air pressure to change gears on the same old transmission design.
...but we all just call it an auto ;)
 
Muscle cars don't call it automatic :
Ford returns to dual-clutch transmission for 760-hp Shelby GT500 supercar

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I’m not sure what you mean. I didn’t read that entire article, but I see it called an automatic at least twice.

[FONT=&quot]Other than the badge on its hood, the dual-clutch automatic transmission in the 760-horsepower 2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500”
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]A dual-clutch automatic has electronic controls and two clutches, so it can adjust the connection more quickly and precisely than a human”[/FONT]
 
"Automatic" is a generic term that includes the well known hydraulic transmission but also CVT and various semi-automatic as well as the DCT. Simply calling it an automatic does not convey the marvelous engineering that makes it a choice for many high performance cars. We all have our favorite motorcycle but we don't consider it equivalent to a Honda 50 simply because they're both motorcycles.

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What is this discussion about? I'm lost.
If you have enough skills and experience and access to the right equipment (e.g. 3D printer), you can modify the right and left handlebar switch assembly, i.e. eliminate AT/MT switch (leave it on AT mode), eliminate D-S mode switching, leave N-D mode and eliminate +/- shifting.
And here you have it - a fully automatic motorcycle. You can sell it as such to a complete layman who knows nothing (because doesn't have to know) how the motorcycle is built and why it is automatic. And it only matters: if it quacks like a duck, then ...
Of course mechanical engineers may argue whether DCT is a fully automatic transmission, like CVT or a traditional automatic full mechanical transmission, or it is a semi-automatic, from a mechanical point of view, because the signal about the work of clutches and gears comes from an external source, i.e. PCM. But does a regular user care about this?
Honda certainly loves this confusion. First it's automatic, but if you don't like DCT in D mode, you can switch to S mode or use manual gear shifting... because it is semi-automatic.
And for them this duality works perfectly - it stops complains and makes a fan base more confident.
Ford was not so lucky when PowerShift car owners lost confidence in their products. Because how can you explain that the transmission suddenly shifts to neutral or stays in gear. (Because of a bad battery?)
The main reason for supercars to use DCT is very fast gear shifting.
 
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There are four types of transmissions: 1) manual, 2) automatic, 3) CVT and 4) semi-automatic and dual clutch. Therefore, a DCT is a type of semi-automatic transmission. It's a manual transmission fitted with two clutches.
 
Wait, we're all correct. This debate is not about what it is, it's about what category you want to put it in. Categories can be defined in general terms or more specific terms.

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...This debate is not about what it is, it's about what category you want to put it in...

Why do you want to break the door already open? This classification has already been made. E.g. Wikipedia has very apt DCT definition and description.
 
Good point. Although the DCT is new to many, a review of Wikipedia finds a long history and application in a lot of vehicles. It seems Honda is the only motorcycle manufacturer so far but that probably will charge soon. It's new to most people so we don't have a comfortably simple niche to put it in yet.

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