Information Doin' the Boot Scootin' Boogie (not good)...

[mrbios]

Last week while getting' on the highway I swung wide and cut hard into the turn and the right peg scraped then the rear wheel slipped out and I think I steered left to bring the bike back up dirt-bike style and then bike suddenly snapped straight - like a prelude to a high-side crash and in a second all was normal. It was so abrupt that I felt sore on the inside of my right leg and even though I had my heels on the passenger pegs I hit my toe hard enough to put a small hole in my work boot.

As I got on the highway I was still wondering why the bike slid ... then I remembered I loaded the top case with about 30lbs of tools which caused an overreaction when leaning into the curve and on the way back up.

 

[Deleted member 1183]

You were lucky.

Perhaps panniers if carrying such a heavy load ? Carrying over two stone out over the rear of the bike was certainly a recipe for trouble.

 

[dduelin]

Cold stiff tire might have contributed if it wasn't good and warm. You were lucky there wasn't more speed involved and the bike didn't throw you off the high side when the rear tire hooked up. Shinko story.

 

[670cc]

Cold stiff tire might have contributed if it wasn't good and warm. You were lucky there wasn't more speed involved and the bike didn't throw you off the high side when the rear tire hooked up. Shinko story.

Did you ever experience this type of sliding when you ran Shinko Ravens on your NC?

 

[dduelin]

Did you ever experience this type of sliding when you ran Shinko Ravens on your NC?

I wouldn't choose this tire so no, I have not.

I don't need to test the cheapest tire available to prove it doesn't work as well as I want tires to work.

 

[halfSpinDoctor]

My guess (based on minimal data here) is cold tires. How wide were you? Is there a chance you hit the paint stripe on the side of the road?

I also run the Shinko Raven 009, and had a slide-out in December. Outside temps were ~25-30 F, just started riding, and was being dumb turning too tightly on cold tires. In my case, I just low-sided and slid into the shoulder. Minimal harm done.

That being said, I have now ridden with Raven (front+back) for two summers and am extremely happy with them. They have been great to me for high-performance riding in the twisties, and also a good commuter that feels planted in rain.

 

[670cc]

I wouldn't choose this tire so no, I have not.

I don't need to test the cheapest tire available to prove it doesn't work as well as I want tires to work.

Sorry. I assumed based on your past commentary on the Shinko Raven tires that you surely must have tried them. I don’t, to the best of my memory, comment on the performance of tires I have never used, other than my visual observations of various tread design and how it might possibly relate to wear in the latter stages of tire life.

It’s interesting that you mentioned “cheapest”. People have various ways of evaluating tires and other products, but I don’t personally use price as a direct correlation to performance or quality. I have sometimes spent big money on various products or services only to be very disappointed.

I once had a Bridgestone front Goldwing tire lock up when I braked too hard on a cold tire. I guess you’d call that a Bridgestone story? Nonetheless, I agree that a cold motorcycle tire, while not necessarily a specific brand, may have played a part in mrbios’s unfortunate incident.

 

[dduelin]

Sorry. I assumed based on your past commentary on the Shinko Raven tires that you surely must have tried them. I don’t, to the best of my memory, comment on the performance of tires I have never used, other than my visual observations of various tread design and how it might possibly relate to wear in the latter stages of tire life.

It’s interesting that you mentioned “cheapest”. People have various ways of evaluating tires and other products, but I don’t personally use price as a direct correlation to performance or quality. I have sometimes spent big money on various products or services only to be very disappointed.

I once had a Bridgestone front Goldwing tire lock up when I braked too hard on a cold tire. I guess you’d call that a Bridgestone story? Nonetheless, I agree that a cold tire may have played a part in mrbios’s unfortunate incident.

Greg, in past conversations in this forum you are well aware I have not tried the Raven 009. There's no reason to ask me again.

I don't really see it's relevant that you choose not to comment on pasta you haven't eaten. When other people however comment that it tastes like crap an interested cook takes note and avoids their experience.

By this stage of life I have knowledge that price is not equal to value and a less expensive product might well be a better value but tires and brakes aren't where I'm looking the buy the cheapest products. YMMV.

Regarding the Bridgestone front tire on a Goldwing there are likely 500 easily found reviews on the G709 or G853 front tire. If a majority of them find the tire well regarded you might take note and you might consider a poor review an outlier. There are reviews online for Shinkos on Goldwings. An interested engaged GW owner is easily made aware of the reputation they have compared to Bridgestones.

Truly I am glad that the OPs experience was not worse than it was.

 

[TacomaJD]

Sounds like cold tire or low traction surface, etc. to me. Highly doubt 30 lbs of stuff in a top box is going to dictate whether turning like you did is a success or failure. No different than riding a much heavier passenger who carries more than 30 lbs much higher than that of anything contained in a top box. I wanted to also make a Shinko remark, but I'll refrain. LOL

 

[mrbios]

Did you ever experience this type of sliding when you ran Shinko Ravens on your NC?

No. The only times I ever slipped the rear was the following: 1. leaned over on a similar type of very sharp smooth curve where I applied a little too much throttle and the rear "shifted". Another time getting off the highway same kind of extreme sweeping curve and the light was green and was leaning a lot and very slight slip on the crosswalk lines.

 

[mrbios]

You were lucky.

Perhaps panniers if carrying such a heavy load ? Carrying over two stone out over the rear of the bike was certainly a recipe for trouble.

Absolutely! Also, there never would have been a problem in any type of normal driving. This was a problem I caused first by putting a lot of weight in the top case and second by forgetting that it was there and cornering aggressively for no reason except entertainment.

 

[mzflorida]

Absolutely! Also, there never would have been a problem in any type of normal driving. This was a problem I caused first by putting a lot of weight in the top case and second by forgetting that it was there and cornering aggressively for no reason except entertainment.

It is unfortunately rare to see honesty and personal accountability. My optimism for the future needle just moved in the right direction! It seems the more common approach today would to contact a lawyer, sue somebody because heirloom boots were damaged because a sticker warning not to put too many tools in the case was absent.


Glad it ended well (except for pegs and boots) and thanks!!!

 

[mrbios]

I like tires that last a lot of miles and don't cost much. The Shinkos are good enough in corners to regularly lightly touch pegs on both sides. In the rain season they get the job done and the sides of the Shinkos feels grippe like an eraser. Original tires were had a date code of 2009 so those tires were 10 years old and "hard" - but they performed fine. The Shinkos by comparison are much softer and they proven themselves in many a corner.

Is it even safe to lean enough to touch pegs on the street? Time to go back to cornering at normal speeds though I still think there is a benefit in practicing just in case a panic move is needed. That slide and sudden snap back scared the sh$t out of me and later when I reexamined the curve the pavement was clean.

Final takeaway from Doin' the Boot Scootin' Boogie?
I needed to be humbled and I was humbled ... without an accident.

 

[mrbios]

It is unfortunately rare to see honesty and personal accountability. My optimism for the future needle just moved in the right direction! It seems the more common approach today would to contact a lawyer, sue somebody because heirloom boots were damaged because a sticker warning not to put too many tools in the case was absent.


Glad it ended well (except for pegs and boots) and thanks!!!

You're welcome. My favorite line from the movie Repo Man? was the character that gets shot while robbing a drug store and on the ground says: "I blame myself and I blame society." When you're honest with yourself and others you grow as a person and hopefully set a good example for others. We all make mistakes ... learn and keep moving forward.

 

[MZ5]

Any chance you ‘touched down’ so hard you actually levered the tire off the ground a touch? Or just took a bit of weight off? The scrape marks seem significant, but I might be misinterpreting (or not seeing well on a tiny screen).

Glad you didn’t have a full high-side crash. That coulda been nasty for sure.

The Shinko Ravens I had on a CBR600 stepped sideways on me once. I wasn’t cornering particularly hard, but it was a cold morning and I grabbed too much throttle mid-turn while crossing a railroad. It didn’t snap over on me, it just stepped out a bit, but almost any additional destabilizing factor would likely have resulted in a wreck.

I don’t say that specifically to indict the Ravens. It is a coincidence over which I can relate to your experience, though.

 

[mrbios]

Any chance you ‘touched down’ so hard you actually levered the tire off the ground a touch? Or just took a bit of weight off? The scrape marks seem significant, but I might be misinterpreting (or not seeing well on a tiny screen).

Glad you didn’t have a full high-side crash. That coulda been nasty for sure.

The Shinko Ravens I had on a CBR600 stepped sideways on me once. I wasn’t cornering particularly hard, but it was a cold morning and I grabbed too much throttle mid-turn while crossing a railroad. It didn’t snap over on me, it just stepped out a bit, but almost any additional destabilizing factor would likely have resulted in a wreck.

I don’t say that specifically to indict the Ravens. It is a coincidence over which I can relate to your experience, though.

I hear and appreciate your thoughts experiences and points...
I'm not sure it that bike levered off my boot and that peg has been hit many times before but there was enough pressure on my toe that I was glad the boots are steel-toed and after wondered if my foot was injured - it was not.

As I have taken that and other curves at very relaxed speeds, I think there's a lesson: if you over-focus on a skill or technique and looking to take things to the next level you're taking on risk with little reward. While it can be thrilling to scrape pegs in a smooth corner that you are familiar with - at the end of the day who really cares? Who are you impressing? Maybe it all started with erasing "chicken strips" and now that they are gone (without a crash) am I really better off? There's more important things in life.

However, I'll leave the door open just a crack... don't let your skill dull to the point that if something unexpected happens you can't deal with it.

 

[dduelin]

After 70,000 miles on NCs I can't recall touching the pegs once in a smooth corner, it had to have a bump or dip in it to compress the suspension a little at the wrong time. My chicken strips are about 1/8" wide. Two NCs had stock pegs and this one has lowered SW Motech pegs with no feelers.

Do you corner on the street dirt bike style by pushing the bike down and away from you or do you drop a shoulder or hip into the turn and get your upper body a little bit over into the inside of the turn.... the head in a position to "bite the mirror" ... so that the bike gets a few degrees less lean for the same radius of turn? There's never a need to drag a knee on the street but just getting the upper body inside the turn helps reduce lean angle while maintaining corner speed.

Maybe a change of cornering technique that lifts the bike up a bit yet maintains the same radius of turn would increase the margin of safety?

 

[mrbios]

Two methods:
1. Right angle turn in to a side street where I dip and sometimes put my leg out like a dirt bike technique.
2. A long smooth wide turn or even two lane turn like a connector to a highway ramp where I take the in the center and then tighten up until a light scrap is happens and then back off.

This doesn't happen at any kind of normal speeds or normal driving except once in a great while as you describe hitting a bump that compresses the suspension which momentarily lowers the bike.

Interestingly, since letting some oil out of the front forks which softened the dampening a lot taking a corner where the is a bump in the corner improved the handling as the forks compress rather than bounce off the pavement. And if something was ever legit slippery like unexpected sand I try to center and not favor high or low side.

 

[Oldbear]

Any chance the tools may have shifted in the top case? A sudden load shift can certainly make things exciting, esp if combined with cold tires and/or low traction surfaces.

 

[LanceK]

So why was your foot on the passenger peg?

“even though I had my heels on the passenger pegs I hit my toe hard enough to put a small hole in my work boot”