Dunlop Trailmax D609 replacement?

[jackthebiker]

I haven't mounted motorcycle tires myself since my 1978 Suzuki GS750, and it was about one year old at the time. I got both my Avon's mounted and balanced by a independent shop for $80 on the bike.

 

[jackthebiker]

Do you mount your own tires? Also interested in what tires you run on the Road King. I have a Kawi Vulcan Nomad 1600 bagger and have been running Avon Cobras on it, usually averaging about 10-12k miles per set. Problem is that I am limited in available sizes, as my bike comes with a 170/70/16 rear and not many manufacturers make a tire in that size. A friend of mine has the same bike and I helped him change tires on it at my shop. He put on a 180/60 Michelin Commander rear and I had a hard time getting that tire wedged between the driveshaft hub and the swingarm. So I'll be sticking to 170/70 rear on mine LOL.

My 2019 Road King came with Dunlop American Elites, Dunlop does make some good tires when the manufacturer is willing to pay for them. The American Elite gets 16,000 or more on the Road King rear tire.

 

[TacomaJD]

I haven't mounted motorcycle tires myself since my 1978 Suzuki GS750, and it was about one year old at the time. I got both my Avon's mounted and balanced by a independent shop for $80 on the bike.

That's quite cheap for mounting and balancing on the bike. I bought a No Mar changer a couple years ago and it is hands down the best tooling investment I've made in my shop. I use it all the time. Change tires for friends too.

My 2019 Road King came with Dunlop American Elites, Dunlop does make some good tires when the manufacturer is willing to pay for them. The American Elite gets 16,000 or more on the Road King rear tire.

I think that's what was on the Street Glide I had a couple years ago. They were good tires, felt good in the curves too.

 

[dduelin]

For me high mileage is a plus but ranks a distant third behind handling and traction.

 

[brb]

Trail tires on a street bike were never used for good mileage rather better off road traction. If you want good wear look into a good street tire. I got great mileage with Bridgestone T30, T30 EVO, T31 have been the best.

 

[jackthebiker]

Trail tires on a street bike were never used for good mileage rather better off road traction. If you want good wear look into a good street tire. I got great mileage with Bridgestone T30, T30 EVO, T31 have been the best.

My new Avon Trailriders have 1300 miles on them, 1/32 of 9/32 of tread gone. The Dunlop D609s are junk.

 

[jackthebiker]

For me high mileage is a plus but ranks a distant third behind handling and traction.

I doubt I could buy a tire that would not provide good traction and ride on the NC750X. They all do for "normal" riding for most NC750X riders. The main reason for the OEM Dunlops short life was very little tread depth from the start. Not sure if they were multi compound like the Avons.

 

[670cc]

I doubt I could buy a tire that would not provide good traction and ride on the NC750X. They all do for "normal" riding for most NC750X riders. The main reason for the OEM Dunlops short life was very little tread depth from the start. Not sure if they were multi compound like the Avons.

I have to agree. The D609 could be some kind of OEM spec tire designed for short life. I looked at the American Moto Tire website, who sells a very wide range of tires, and they don't even sell a D609 in NC sizes (not that you would want one anyway).

 

[dduelin]

I doubt I could buy a tire that would not provide good traction and ride on the NC750X. They all do for "normal" riding for most NC750X riders. The main reason for the OEM Dunlops short life was very little tread depth from the start. Not sure if they were multi compound like the Avons.

Oh yes you could. It depends on what a rider expects out of a tire. Round, black, and holds air is the lowest expectation one could have and about any tire delivers.

 

[670cc]

Oh yes you could. It depends on what a rider expects out of a tire. Round, black, and holds air is the lowest expectation one could have and about any tire delivers.

Specifically, what tire brand(s) and model(s) have you tried "that would not provide good traction and ride on the NC750X" for "normal" riding, as jackthebiker described it?

 

[dduelin]

Specifically, what tire brand(s) and model(s) have you tried "that would not provide good traction and ride on the NC750X" for "normal" riding, as jackthebiker described it?

The description given was sufficiently vague as to be meaningless. No tire can be benchmarked to a meaningless description and I don't have to buy and use every tire in the market to know that. What is "normal", what is "a good ride", and what kind of traction is desired? Dry traction in the summer, or wet traction in cooler temperatures? Does a normal rider live in the wet Pacific NW or AZ? Ride year round in all weather or on those nice sunny days?

We do know that long life is promoted by hard rubber compounds and hard rubber compounds have less lower friction coefficients and offer less feedback to the rider. We know that tire manufacturers have learned to use hard compounds in the middle of the tread and soft compounds on the sides in order to increase tire mileage while giving higher traction and feedback when leaned to the edge of the tire. If you like to and often corner a bike at lean angles that involve the edge of the tire then a dual compound tire objectively performs at a higher level than a single compound tire. This can be bench marked and has by blind testing performed by manufacturers, testing bodies, magazines, common rider experience, etc..

Throw in wet performance and single compound and hard compound tires fall subjectively and objectively further behind.

Dual compound tires cost more but deliver objectively higher performance perhaps at the expense of mileage. "Perhaps" because a dual compound tire kept at moderate lean angles can deliver very high mileage while still retaining soft grippy edges when needed.

If one's need and desire does not require a higher performing tire the market provides a $60 front tire and that rider is wasting money buying more tire than he/she needs. The market also provides a $100 and $150 tire choice. Just don't expect the $60 tire to perform like a $150 one.

 

[670cc]

The description given was sufficiently vague as to be meaningless. No tire can be benchmarked to a meaningless description and I don't have to buy and use every tire in the market to know that. What is "normal", what is "a good ride", and what kind of traction is desired? Dry traction in the summer, or wet traction in cooler temperatures? Does a normal rider live in the wet Pacific NW or AZ? Ride year round in all weather or on those nice sunny days?

We do know that long life is promoted by hard rubber compounds and hard rubber compounds have less lower friction coefficients and offer less feedback to the rider. We know that tire manufacturers have learned to use hard compounds in the middle of the tread and soft compounds on the sides in order to increase tire mileage while giving higher traction and feedback when leaned to the edge of the tire. If you like to and often corner a bike at lean angles that involve the edge of the tire then a dual compound tire objectively performs at a higher level than a single compound tire. This can be bench marked and has by blind testing performed by manufacturers, testing bodies, magazines, common rider experience, etc..

Throw in wet performance and single compound and hard compound tires fall subjectively and objectively further behind.

Dual compound tires cost more but deliver objectively higher performance perhaps at the expense of mileage. "Perhaps" because a dual compound tire kept at moderate lean angles can deliver very high mileage while still retaining soft grippy edges when needed.

If one's need and desire does not require a higher performing tire the market provides a $60 front tire and that rider is wasting money buying more tire than he/she needs. The market also provides a $100 and $150 tire choice. Just don't expect the $60 tire to perform like a $150 one.

That all makes sense, except that I have learned that it is impossible to correlate price with quality. In your final paragraph you describe tire quality in terms of dollars. I have learned from past experience, and I refuse to be duped by thinking a higher priced product is automatically a better product. If I always assume I get more when I pay more, I find I will sometimes spend a lot for junk, or on the other hand I would miss out on an excellent less expensive product if I dismissed it due to low price. To me, the best product is the one that performs adequately, perhaps above average, or even top of the line, but costs below average.

Somewhere out there, I believe there may be some $60 tire that performs better than some $150 tire. But, if I dismiss all $60 tires, I might miss out on the best combination, or perhaps miss out on the best tire of all.

I would not speak highly or lowly of a tire I had never actually tried.

 

[dduelin]

Actually I did not equate price with quality. I equated price with objective measurable performance. Objectively higher performing tires cost more but the specification(s) must be clear or the higher price product may be of less quality than the less expensive one.

In the classic definition of quality, a product that meets or exceeds the measurable objective specifications set for it is a quality product. If a rider sets his specification for high mileage as #1 then a quality tire in the classic definition must be a tire that delivers high mileage. It might well cost $60 as it is narrowly focused and the materials may not cost very much. A $150 tire is not quality in this instance as costs more than necessary if the rider doesn't place value on cold weather wet performance or grip at high lean angle and the tire wears out in less miles than the $60 one. Maybe the $100 tire is the highest quality if the rider wants better cornering traction without giving up mileage as #1.

If a rider sets cornering feedback as #1, then the tires must deliver this specification to be quality. A hard single compound rubber tire is at cross purposes to a dual compound tire with soft edges and a hard middle. One does not have to fall down on a wet street corner to learn that though the lesson learned has more impact if experienced DAMHIK. Sometimes you can have both cornering feedback and high mileage but you have to be willing to pay for it. If one is fixed solely on price then they might miss out on a higher quality product that costs more.

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance discusses quality in great detail. It's a good read

 

[jackthebiker]

My 2016 Versys 1000LT got over twice the mileage out of the OEM tires. (7000 miles) While putting twice the hp to the rear wheel and weighing slightly more and driven on the same roads the same way. My point all along has been Honda has chosen to put cheap tires on the NC750. I would gladly have paid a little more for the bike and gotten reasonable mileage out of the OEM tires while still having acceptable traction and ride. I doubt many NC750X riders are canyon races, although some like to imply they are.

 

[dduelin]

My 2016 Versys 1000LT got over twice the mileage out of the OEM tires. (7000 miles) While putting twice the hp to the rear wheel and weighing slightly more and driven on the same roads the same way. My point all along has been Honda has chosen to put cheap tires on the NC750. I would gladly have paid a little more for the bike and gotten reasonable mileage out of the OEM tires.

Honda has at times supplied the NCx on OEM Bridgestone and Metzeler tires that did deliver higher miles. The Trailmax is a disappointment compared to those.

 

[the Ferret]

The problem with people's opinions of tires is there is no way to qualify their opinion. What conditions they ride in, do they ride in the cold, the wet, extreme heat, in a lot of curves, hills or mainly flat straight roads, at what speeds, light weight solo, or heavily loaded, their skill level, how well they maintain their tire pressures, how well their tires were mounted and balanced. What types of surface material they generally ride on, smooth asphalt, concrete, blacktop, or tar and chip. Tire requirements can be a lot different for somebody from North Carolina and Kansas. Honestly most riders ride less than 2500 miles a year, mainly on blue bird 70 degree sunny days, within 200 miles of home. Does this qualify them to judge and recommend tires.

I have tried Michelin, Dunlops, Bridgestones, Metzlers, Continentals, and Pirellis over the years. I've never tried Shinkos, and dont know that I would, although I know riders that swear by them.

After I wear out the stock tires on the NC I will look for a set of Michelins or Pirellis. If they dont work out to my satisfaction. I might try a set of something else...maybe Dunlops although I am hearing good things about the new Bridgestone T 31 and T 32's. Just hard for me to believe BS can make a decent tire lol.

I value handling and grip in varied conditions but value longevity as well. For me Michelins have always provided the best combination of all 3 features. Price ranks 4th on my list of features.

Take peoples opinions on tires with a bit of skepticism..... even mine lol

 

[jackthebiker]

I have Dunlop American Elites on my 2019 Road King, excellent tires. I have used Dunlops on most of my bikes, they are capible of making great tires. I have had great luck with Michelin over the years. Bridgestone, not so much. Avon has given me good service on my 2008 Stratoliner, 2015 T100 Bonneville, and now so far on my 2018 NC750X. I ride with some guys that I swear don't know you are supposed to put air in tires. And yes you need to take several reports on tires and find the average.

 

[Amwolf]

And here I thought my OEM Bridgestone Battleaxes wearing out at 6000 miles was bad.
Honestly, I didn't have much faith in the Bridgestones because I had them on my Triumph Bonneville, and they wore fast then. The problem with the Battleax is that they get super squirrely below 50% wear, so I had to always ride like I was on ice.
I switched to Shinko 705s. Although they don't come in the exact size as the rear OEM, I went with it anyway (had to go with one slightly larger), and I have been very happy. I have 3000 miles on them now and they still look new, and I am very confident in their traction. I recommend Shinko unless you really want to have a name brand tire.

 

[lowrider]

My 2016 Versys 1000LT got over twice the mileage out of the OEM tires. (7000 miles) While putting twice the hp to the rear wheel and weighing slightly more and driven on the same roads the same way. My point all along has been Honda has chosen to put cheap tires on the NC750. I would gladly have paid a little more for the bike and gotten reasonable mileage out of the OEM tires while still having acceptable traction and ride. I doubt many NC750X riders are canyon races, although some like to imply they are.

I have Contentals on my 1250 Bandit with 6650 miles at the moment and they should last another 1K or so. No canyon racing but I am forced at times to quickly push past the posted limit on a long flat rural road. They have been good tires in rain and moderate cold and wonderful in warm weather. I'm with you on paying a few bucks more for better tires on the 2021 IF they come with "lesser tires". I just had a discussion on an airplane site and my final comment there fits here too...can't make everyone happy all the time.

I WANT MY NEW BIKE NOW!!!

 

[670cc]

I see now that tire threads are remarkably similar to oil threads.