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Engine management warning indicator

Des

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2012 NC700X (37500kms): My engine management warning light has started coming on intermittently with no noticeable change in engine performance. Switching ignition off cancels the indicator but it comes on again after a few minutes. Trying to link it to an event/action proves fruitless, but I initially thought it occurred at a gear change. Yesterday while at idle waiting for the garage door to open (bike on side stand) the indicator began flashing on/off at one second intervals. I will check for loose connections and have an idea it could be the oxygen sensor failing (my guess). Has anybody had this experience or able to point me in the right direction?
 
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Hi Des, the indicator light you are referring to is frequently called the Check Engine light (abbreviated CEL) or Malfunction Indicator Light (abbreviated MIL). You can find a ton of great information on this site about the bike including the CEL light and its functions with the search feature, so I won't attempt repeat it all here. The one thing that I will say is that the CEL light flashing with the engine running and sidestand down is a NORMAL condition when a fault has been detected. You can count the blinks to determine the numerical code (or multiple codes) that will indicate where the area where the fault occured. - No need to spend time looking for a loose wire.

Start with the website search using the terms above to get a list of trouble codes and narrow down the culprit. We can help

Good luck,
Saturday.
 
I was going to suggest that you read the fault code by lowering side stand with the engine running and the transmission in neutral. It seems you already did that without knowing it. The flashes are telling you what type of fault turned on the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL). Do this procedure again next time the MIL is on, but count the blinks. You should get a two digit code based on the number of blinks seen. For example, two long blinks and one short blink would be code 21. Look that up in a service manual, or report back here and someone can interpret it for you.
 
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86 error code is a "communication error" for the display...Usually this is caused by a bad connection at the battery (loose connections or corroded connections) or a loose connection at the back of the display..
1. Disconnect both the hot and ground wires at the battery...if you have any devices directly connected to the battery terminals-clean them and clean the hot/ground wires...Reconnect.
2. If it still occurs,,, disconnect the cable on back of the display...easy-remove the windshield, remove the 3 screws on back of display...slide display out about 1 inch, disconnect/reconnect.
 
I fully agree with davidc83’s comments already posted. 86 code is a meter communication failure, and every time I can remember someone on the forum reporting this error, it was the result of low battery voltage or poor battery cable connections. It seems the combination meter (the speedometer) is the first component to complain when voltage on the 12 volt system gets low.

Follow davidc83’s advice above. If you have an accurate voltmeter available, check battery voltage with the bike running and with it off after a couple hour rest period. Most likely you have bad battery connections or you may need a new battery.
 
I fully agree with davidc83’s comments already posted. 86 code is a meter communication failure, and every time I can remember someone on the forum reporting this error, it was the result of low battery voltage or poor battery cable connections. It seems the combination meter (the speedometer) is the first component to complain when voltage on the 12 volt system gets low.

Follow davidc83’s advice above. If you have an accurate voltmeter available, check battery voltage with the bike running and with it off after a couple hour rest period. Most likely you have bad battery connections or you may need a new battery.
I had the issue last May at the MOs get together...Started on my way down from Louisville, but no big deal. Bike ran fine...I didn't mess with it while down at MOs (try not to do maintenance work away from home): it was starting, charging, and running fine... after I got home, I did both the procedures before starting the bike again and problem has not reoccurred..My guess: I have a 12 v car adapter, LED lights, heated glove liner, and pig tail for battery tender connected directly to the battery (I know, I know...I have a connector box waiting to install-just haven't decided where to mount it yet) and I suspect one of the connectors corroded...I disconnected everything, took a small file and ran over the connectors until shiny and reconnected them...
 
Here’s my experience with code 86 last year:

 
2012 NC700X (37500kms): My engine management warning light has started coming on intermittently with no noticeable change in engine performance. Switching ignition off cancels the indicator but it comes on again after a few minutes. Trying to link it to an event/action proves fruitless, but I initially thought it occurred at a gear change. Yesterday while at idle waiting for the garage door to open (bike on side stand) the indicator began flashing on/off at one second intervals. I will check for loose connections and have an idea it could be the oxygen sensor failing (my guess). Has anybody had this experience or able to point me in the right direction?
I had exactly the same issue. Local dealer wanted to have the bike all day to pull the front off it to get to the sensor and light. I thought naa. Sounds wrong to me. I checked to discover the battery terminals were loose. Check and see before you spend a shitload on a dealer's superannuation.
 
I had exactly the same issue. Local dealer wanted to have the bike all day to pull the front off it to get to the sensor and light. I thought naa. Sounds wrong to me. I checked to discover the battery terminals were loose. Check and see before you spend a shitload on a dealer's superannuation.
Bike has been perfect ever since.
 
Hi all, many thanks for your input. I have checked the battery condition, terminals and the combination meter terminal block and found no problem. I cleaned the terminals as best I could but the problem persists. Last night I had the combination meter start flickering after about 20 kms (no MIL up to that point) and then go blank, with my engine "dying". I had no power to the ignition at all! After I fiddled with as many wires as I could find in the dark, the ignition came on again and I managed to make it home with no further trouble...except for the MIL staying on. I do not know if my fiddling found a loose connection at the battery or combination meter or not, because I never found any obvious fault. Needless to say I have lost confidence and now do not want to venture too far. I again checked all connections today, and I suspect the flickering and engine cut out could have been the terminal block not being pushed all the way in....today I heard a definite click when replacing...something I do not recall the previous time. Question: should there be power to ignition if the combination meter is removed/disconnected?
I even opened up the combination meter to see if any obvious problem was visible. A short test ride brought the MIL on again and this time I was riding slow enough to notice a definite hesitation and sluggishness of the engine when this occurred. Thereafter the engine appeared to function ok with the MIL on. Back home I again got the code 86. In trying to identify a trigger for the MIL I suspect it is on closing the throttle slightly during gear-changes....but not always. My next step is to take it to Honda for a diagnostic test...but spare cash is not lying around. A call to Honda got them to offer a new combination meter at a frightening cost so I'm hesitant to go there.
The battery is nearing 3 years old. I have 14,1v with the engine revs just above idle and after switching off it drops to 12,8v static after while. I can understand the combination meter is the first to suffer from low voltage but the MIL comes on when the voltage is good!
 
...I had the combination meter start flickering after about 20 kms (no MIL up to that point) and then go blank, with my engine "dying". I had no power to the ignition at all! After I fiddled with as many wires as I could find in the dark, the ignition came on again and ...
The important question is: after the combination meter went blank, what happened to the clock? Has the time displayed changed? Did you have to set the time again, just like after disconnecting the battery?
The answer will allow you to narrow your search where the problem is.
The combination meter is powered by two connections to a power source. Continuous power supply by fuse 7.5A (# 6 in your case?), what can be called "before ignition switch" and connection switched on - "after ignition switch" by fuse # 2 (NCX). If the clock has not lost connection, you can assume that the power supply "before the ignition switch" is fine, including the battery. In this way, you can concentrate on finding the wrong connection starting with the ignition switch, through the combination meter to the main connector with ECM / PCM. Familiarization with the wiring diagram is always useful.
 
Problem solved. Sent the bike in to a local friendly bike shop (not Honda agent) for a diagnostic check to try and isolate the fault. On stripping they found the bank angle sensor was loose and "hanging" at an angle. One bolt was missing and the other loose. Remounting the sensor has eliminated the problem and two lengthy rides later the bike has run perfectly. No MIL, flashing digital display in the combination meter or engine cut......and no charge for the fix!!! They sure to get my business in future if/when I need them.
This explains and confirms my suspicion that the cut out occurred after a right turn where the banking angle was exaggerated by the already offset sensor.....and the sensor did what it was supposed to do. I think the MIL was possibly caused by the intermittent momentary signal from the sensor. I do not know why the mounting bolts were not secured with spring washers or locktite.......they are now.
 
It‘s great that the fix was found! I’m still wondering why the bike flashed fault code 86, for a bank angle sensor being triggered.
 
It‘s great that the fix was found! I’m still wondering why the bike flashed fault code 86, for a bank angle sensor being triggered.
Well....I'm hoping it is fixed. So far two 50km rides have been trouble free. I now know code 86 refers to a "communication error" and I'm not knowledgeable enough to know exactly how this particular sensor problem could relate to the error code....if at all. It is possible the technician inadvertently corrected something else. Maybe with the sensor loose from its mounting position the tension on the wiring connector block caused bad contact/connection at times, resulting in the "communication error"? The workshop manager (who used to run a Honda workshop) said the engine cut out was definitely caused by the bank angle sensor. He did not explain why the MIL started coming on intermittently at least two weeks before the engine cut-out started (I forgot to ask), but my guess is that as the sensor worked loose the inclination angle momentarily reached engine cut-out setting, causing the digital display to flicker on occasions (engine jerking slightly) and then to eventually go blank with total engine cut-out.
 
The bank angle sensor has its specific DTC code (MIL blinks): 54-1, 54-2. This also doesn't explain why the combination meter went blank. The power supply to the combination meter is not controlled by the ECM / PCM.
You can lose confidence in the entire Honda DTC concept.
 
The system is not that smart.

The fact the bank angle sensor was loose is not an error........the ECU “thinks” the bike is on its side so it kills the engine.
The bank angle sensor was not bad.......it was giving bad information because its was not attached to the bike.

One reasonable conclusion there’s was more than one problem occurring at the same time. We will never know as with many fixEE more than one item, device, component or connection was tested, moved or changed.

Another thought:
The power to the meter is not controlled by the ECU ........but.........the data stream is, so it’s possible the bank angle sensor killing the engine, kills the data stream or intermittent data error to the meter causing the communications code.
 
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... so it’s possible the bank angle sensor killing the engine, kills the data stream or intermittent data error to the meter causing the communications code.

The bank angle sensor works almost exactly the same as the engine stop switch.
Engine stop switch controls the power supply, among others, to the bank angle sensor that is connected to the BA contact of ECM.
The ECM monitors the signal on BA contact. If there is no signal, (the motorcycle is lying on its side), the ECM cuts the fuel supply.
The combination meter operation is not interrupted. (It is possible if it was damaged in an accident). It's easy to check - just turn on "kill switch" - all information on the combination switch is still visible.
The ignition switch controls the power supply to the combination meter.
 
We know the meter communication does not like any voltage variation........could the loose or bad bank angle sensor signal mimic a erratic or varying voltage ?

Anybody got free time........Maybe fooling around with the engine kill switch or other voltage supply to the ECU could confirm Or deny the data stream to meter.

Then maybe somethings don’t need an exact answer........as the OP bike appears to fixed.
 
........could the loose or bad bank angle sensor signal mimic a erratic or varying voltage ?
Anybody got free time........Maybe fooling around ....

No, it can't. Just look at the wiring diagram. Practically impossible. Fooling around is not needed - if, of course, someone wouldn't try to help it.... just to prove that "it is possible".
 
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