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Engine Temp

ST13Fred

ST13Fred

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I don't want to belabor this thread but........I do wish Honda had a bar type gauge similar to the current fuel gauge setup. Can the current electronics detect a slow warmup condition?
Thermostats in years past seemed prone to sticking open undetected, too frequently in my experience, but cannot be detected on a motorcycle, as far as I know, without a gauge.
Slow warmup, if ever with a stuck stat, will age an engine and oil considerably. Our ST13, remember dduelin, had a bar type gauge. I may look into one for the NC. My Motus has a temp gauge.
 
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More instrumentation is always cool, and sometimes useful. Last time I had a stuck open thermostat failure was on a 1984 Ford, and I’ve probably driven a million miles since then. A stuck thermostat is very not high on my NC worry list.
 
I know to stay away from a 'best oil' thread. How does one know when a stat is stuck open w/o a gauge? No cabin heat on a vehicle in winter, yes but on a bike, no.
I've had several as I stated. This reminds me of my bar weight thread, where I'm the only one this has happened to. I'm going to query Honda Power Sports about this.
 
I don’t know if a way for the NCX electronics to detect a slow warm-up condition, or maybe I should say I’m not aware of them having a way to alert the rider.

I’m very curious whether Honda has anything even remotely useful to say.
 
MZ5 said:
I don’t know if a way for the NCX electronics to detect a slow warm-up condition, or maybe I should say I’m not aware of them having a way to alert the rider.

I’m very curious whether Honda has anything even remotely useful to say.
Click to expand...
When I worked on medical equipment, my observation was that American engineers would build in all kinds of ways to monitor and report failures in the equipment. The Japanese engineers just designed the equipment so it wouldn’t fail.
 
MZ5 said:
I don’t know if a way for the NCX electronics to detect a slow warm-up condition, or maybe I should say I’m not aware of them having a way to alert the rider.

I’m very curious whether Honda has anything even remotely useful to say.
Click to expand...
The NC ECU not smart enough, it could be done if they wanted to spend the money.
Modern cars and trucks have a failure code ( check engine light on) for slow warmup because it’s mandated by the EPA because slow warmup would cause excessive exhaust emissions.

Applies to the those new cars and trucks:
OBD-II Code P0128 is defined as a Engine temperature has not increased ... too much time to warm up to the proper operating temperature—more than fifteen ... if the vehicle was being driven at freeway or slower, in town driving speeds.

As a side note St1300 did have issue with thermostat sticking open.........where the coolant temp would drop on the highway on cool or cold ride. Around town three bars, highway speed cold weather it would drop 1-2 bars.
 
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Good point dduelin.
A thermometer probe contacting the radiator showing the speed of the temp rise of a normally operating thermostat would suffice.
A stuck open stat would show a slower than normal rise and probably never reach full temp.
I'm going to explore this idea. It would not require any rework.
dduelin said:
Gas mileage will suffer greatly as the mixture would be rich in response to ECU reading cold operating temperature.
Click to expand...
 
I investigated the idea of adding a water temp gauge as well, but never went forward with it. The easiest method is to add a sensor to one of the radiator hoses, by cutting it, like this one:

I cogitated over it, and may one day install one, but thermostat failures are rare in my experience. It also adds two connection points in the hoses to fail. If there was a really sanitary way to install one, I might do it. I think I miss the ambient temp gauge on the ST more than I miss the water temp gauge.
 
As someone already pointed out in another coolant temperature monitoring thread, the invasive nature of a coolant temperature probe is likely a higher failure risk than anything presently in the stock cooling system.
 
Klap said:
I investigated the idea of adding a water temp gauge as well, but never went forward with it. The easiest method is to add a sensor to one of the radiator hoses, by cutting it, like this one:

I cogitated over it, and may one day install one, but thermostat failures are rare in my experience. It also adds two connection points in the hoses to fail. If there was a really sanitary way to install one, I might do it. I think I miss the ambient temp gauge on the ST more than I miss the water temp gauge.
Click to expand...
I felt the same way about an ambient temperature gauge and did install one on both of my NCs. The issue of sticking OEM factory installed thermostats seemed to be resolved by model year 2007 as only the 2003-2006 model ST1300s populated the threads about temperature gauge readings varying with motion of the bike. (only warming up at idle and cooling off when being ridden). I'll note again that the ST had a coolant sensor that was calibrated in discrete ranges. 1 bar on the gauge was less than 135 degrees, two bars was 155 to 180, three bars 180 to 190, and so on to four to six bars. This "gauge" is extremely common on vehicles since the 1990s. What looks like an analog gauge in the dash from the days when a discrete temperature was displayed is long gone. Normal operating temperature is all that matters to modern ECUs and they work in a set of calibrated ranges.
 
If one was worried about a slow warm-up condition,,,wouldnt a laser temp gauge, pointed at the point of the exhaust header attached to the engine do the same thing?
I just went out a few minutes ago and started up my honda,,,let it run for 5 minutes and took the temp at the point where the exhaust header attaches to the engine....took 4 readings and the readings were between 198-202'F....seems warm enough to me....the pic is the laser temp I used....a Raytek MiniTemp....oh, the ambient temp in the unheated shed is 40'F....I just did this as a test, not worried about it and not going to carry it with me....it is only 6" long and the top head is only 2" wide...
 

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Your post dduelin jogged my memory of several ST13 owners posting their temp gauge would fluctuate under conditions you stated; this was because the stat was stuck open. I replaced mine once maybe twice with this problem.
Although this condition may be rare it is relatively serious if it happens on a bike because without a gauge an owner may never detect it. All cages have it and all water cooled bikes should.
I'm a stickler however in doing a mod and being able to return the vehicle to stock condition easily. The meat thermometer idea would be temporary, would stay if successful but come off if I sold the bike.
 
I think the exhaust header temp, david, would not vary much, even on an engine with no stat at all.
Directing the laser on the aluminum stat housing at fluid entry and recording how quickly a temp rise occurs from a cold start at that location would give a good baseline.
Assuming the stat is functioning properly now, a slower warmup at some point would suggest a bench check of the stat was in order.
Failed stats in my experience were nearly fully stuck open.
 
ST13Fred said:
Your post dduelin jogged my memory of several ST13 owners posting their temp gauge would fluctuate under conditions you stated; this was because the stat was stuck open. I replaced mine once maybe twice with this problem.
Although this condition may be rare it is relatively serious if it happens on a bike because without a gauge an owner may never detect it. All cages have it and all water cooled bikes should.
I'm a stickler however in doing a mod and being able to return the vehicle to stock condition easily. The meat thermometer idea would be temporary, would stay if successful but come off if I sold the bike.
Click to expand...
Be careful when making absolute statements. All cages may not have it (engine coolant temperature gauge). I looked at my 2012 Ford car and there is no coolant temperature gauge on it’s dash. The absence of a coolant temperature gauge apparently never bothered me, as I didn’t even notice until last week.
 
Another idea: saw an analog thermometer which was wedded to a radiator cap. I could not find one specifically for the NC, but I am sure one could be adapted.
I was actually looking for a thermometer to measure oil temp- some replace the OE dipstick, and have a readout on top .
 
670cc said:
Be careful when making absolute statements. All cages may not have it (engine coolant temperature gauge). I looked at my 2012 Ford car and there is no coolant temperature gauge on it’s dash. The absence of a coolant temperature gauge apparently never bothered me, as I didn’t even notice until last week.
Click to expand...
Yep, I am 62 years old...owned a cage since I was 18 and the only 2 cars I have owned with temp gauges (no dummy lights) were my first 2 beaters, a 1963 Chrysler sedan (with a push button transmission selector) and a 1973 Dodge Dart Sport.....even my current 2015 Toyota Prius C, with all its electronics, all its different screens on the dash and its display, dont have a temperature gauge.
 
I'm tentatively planning with a digital probe thermometer establishing a time/temp baseline. At a yet determined spot on the engine for the temp reading, record in the owner manual this location and how long it takes to reach op temp.
The probe would only be used to check the stat function and not be a part of the bike. This seems a little anal but this would eliminate having to remove the stat and do a bench check. :)
Todays very efficient engines is the result of all the electronic monitoring and probably could eliminate the need for any dash board temp gauges. At 71+ I'm old school with too many bad stat experiences. I assume the mechanical stats are still in use.
 
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