Ethanol free gas instead of fuel stabilizer for winterizing?

[bumblepee]

Hi all,

So far, I have filled the tank a single time with regular gas (I guess 10% ethanol). Now I am planning to winterize the motorcycle, which basically means adding some fuel stabilizer to a topped up tank. I bought Lucas Stabilizer from Home Depot. From what I see online, however, fuel stabilizers are not doing much (i.e., see Oct 21 youtube episode by Fortnine). This whole issue seems to be prevented if I simply put ethanol free gas in the tank. I would love to use pure gas on a regular basis, and even better if that avoids me putting more chemicals in the tank. But can't find any gas stations that sell ethanol-free gas (greater philly area). My question is:

Is it worth the extra effort to go find some pure non-ethanol gas for winterizing the bike or should I follow the shortest path of using a fuel stabilizer?

Thank you.

 

[the Ferret]

Cant advise you on the ethanol free gas, have never used it. Honda says bikes are made for 87 grade 10% ethanol so I have no qualms about using it in my bikes.

I start using Seafoam every few tanks in mid November while watching the weather forecast, but its rare for my bikes to sit 2 weeks without being ridden. I also use battery tender jrs when not being ridden.

Fwiw Ive never had an issue with my bikes starting or running cleanly after sitting a couple weeks, and my lawn equipment after months of sitting.

 

[670cc]

The real question is, what happens if you do nothing? I have never had a fuel injected engine fail to start and run well regardless of what fuel or stabilizer was or wasn’t used for storage of several months.

You might be familiar with the pure gas web site. I’ll post the link anyway. https://www.pure-gas.org/

 

[bumblepee]

Cant advise you on the ethanol free gas, have never used it. Honda says bikes are made for 87 grade 10% ethanol so I have no qualms about using it in my bikes.

I think it's the opposite. I remember that Honda says that their engines are not made to run on gas that contains ethanol, and ethanol could shorten the life of the engine. This was in the warranty papers I had to sign. I asked the dealer what's going on with this gas problem, there is no gas without ethanol around. He told me it's the regular manufacturer disclaimer but everyone runs the bikes on ethanol-ed gas without a problem. I still signed the paper thinking that I would not be the first person to full the bike at a regular gas station This was less than two months ago, so the memory is fresh, I don't think I am mistaken.

 

[670cc]

I think it's the opposite. I remember that Honda says that their engines are not made to run on gas that contains ethanol, and ethanol could shorten the life of the engine. This was in the warranty papers I had to sign. I asked the dealer what's going on with this gas problem, there is no gas without ethanol around. He told me it's the regular manufacturer disclaimer but everyone runs the bikes on ethanol-ed gas without a problem. I still signed the paper thinking that I would not be the first person to full the bike at a regular gas station This was less than two months ago, so the memory is fresh, I don't think I am mistaken.

Nonsense. Read the Honda owner’s manual for fuel recommendations. Use of gasoline with up to 10% ethanol is approved by Honda. Below is a screen shot from the 2021 manual.

I’ve been using 10% ethanol blend gasoline in all my engines, including all my motorcycles, for probably over 30 years. That’s probably around a million miles of driving/riding. It is simply not an issue to be concerned about.

 

[TheIronWarrior]

I think it's the opposite. I remember that Honda says that their engines are not made to run on gas that contains ethanol, and ethanol could shorten the life of the engine.

I'd have to check, but I expect they mean the higher ethanol blends. Typically, modern engines are designed to run of E10 (up to 10% eth), which is also what most gas stations have available.
There are other blends such as E15 and E85. If I had to guess, based on what is available, I would expect most manufacturers consider E10 "normal" gasoline and anything higher to be "containing ethanol" but this is pulled out of my ass and not from official sources.
Alternatively, they may be referring to the fact that in general gas containing ethanol does impact engine life, but at E10, it's a non-negligible but non-serious impact.
Kind of like saying "refined sugars reduces your life expectancy." Eating desert now and then isn't going to kill you much quicker, but having ice cream for every meal is probably a very bad idea.

While the ethanol doesn't help fuel stability, old gas has been gumming up engines since way before ethanol has been blended in. The ethanol makes moisture related problems worse, but the gummy-sticky-resiny crap responsible for plugging things up is from minor components in the gasoline, not from ethanol. I am unclear whether ethanol impacts this in any way, but without ethanol, you still have the minor components that will eventually gum up the works. Fuel stabilizer helps slow down the reactions that form the gunk. How long it takes the gunk to form with and without stabilizer seems to be subject to debate, but it is generally accepted that stabilizer keeps the gas fresher longer.

As a personal point of reference, I've left a bike outside for several months in a Canadian winter without stabilizer or a battery tender and there were no issues starting up in the Spring. YMMV.

 

[itsmenc700]

Again here we have had E10 gas for over 30 years. Me and everyone I have known, worked with talked with about cars, bikes, engines, ect around here have had zero problems related to gas and the so called ethanol and the problems it should cause. After a few years I can see where engine makers would compensate for any future troubles E10 would cause them so they get return buyers!! I have used Seafoam and Stabil in tanks over the winter. I have also forgotten sometimes to use any fuel stabilizer. I know I have a few winters in my mower. Its now over 20 years old and runs like new. As you post above there used to be gummed up engines problems. I think with new additives these are not as great as they once where. But gramps will tell tales of gummed up carbs of 60 years ago and they make todays grandson say yep there are gas related problems. If you do any online searches about gas E10 problems you will get 50 millions responses. I have just wintered by ride, and I did add Seafoam to the tank. BUT is it really doing anything. I have been told many, many times Seafoam is just alcohol and a few other things. SO we add alcohol into the tank that already has alcohol to keep the alcohol from doing bad things???
I need to do an experiment - two glass jars both with E10 - one has Seafoam added - let them sit for a year and see what happens. SEE if there is more water that gets into it as is suppose to happen. See if any separation between gas and ethanol happens.
I am in the group that thinks this is all from years ago and modern gas is not so bad any longer.
Let the posting begin!

 

[showkey]

A. Don’t believe every thing you see on YouTube

B. Non ethanol fuel will last longer in storage. Heat and humidity levels have an effect on the fuel in storage.

C. Fuel stabilizers can work. They are not all the same. Seafoam is alcohol, naphtha and pale oil as per the MSDS. So buying non ethanol fuel and adding alcohol product might be anti productive?
Products like STABIL have been around for 40 years. Yes, fuel storage issues and dead batteries in winter storage have been around for 70 years.
Gas going bad has kept the small engine service centers busy for decades. It put me through college 45 years ago.

D. Doing nothing for winter storage can have consequences.
Even just a full tank with little air volume will minimize rust on a steel tank.

 

[670cc]

Let the posting begin!

We have established that Honda recommends use of gasoline blended with up to 10% ethanol. At this point, I don’t think there is much point to debating 0% vs 10% ethanol blend gasoline. This would be just like an oil thread. Do we want that?

 

[TNHoosier]

I have never had issues with any of my motorcycles sitting over the winter without stabilizer. My R1100RT did not respond well to Stabil, not sure why. It was hard to start and did not run well until fresh gas was added. Whatever other bike was setting next to the RT had no issues.

In mowers, etc. I add Star-tron or Lucas to the tank and run a little. I also try to start them every few weeks just to keep things moving.

 

[omniphil]

I have 3 bikes that get stored in the NH winters. I have never used anything special in the tanks. All I do is fill the tank right before bring it to storage to ensure there is little room for condensation.
I don't really see the need for Stabil unless you have an older carb bike.

We also store a car for the winter and it's the same deal. Fill the tank up and park it. Done.

 

[mzflorida]

I ride year round but store some gas for my generator during hurricane season. I am unsure why I even do it any longer, just what I've always done. The one time I forgot to add stabilizer to one generator, varnished up the carb...but entirely different fuel management system between a genset and a bike.

 

[670cc]

I ride year round but store some gas for my generator during hurricane season. I am unsure why I even do it any longer, just what I've always done. The one time I forgot to add stabilizer to one generator, varnished up the carb...but entirely different fuel management system between a genset and a bike.

Right. Gravity feed carburetor fuel systems present a whole additional set of problems that won’t be seen on the NC. I drain all carbs for storage and never have problems. But that’s not relevant to NC storage discussions.

 

[mzflorida]

Right. Gravity feed carburetor fuel systems present a whole additional set of problems that won’t be seen on the NC. I drain all carbs for storage and never have problems. But that’s not relevant to NC storage discussions.

I know. Don't remind me. That was a huge and entirely unnecessary pain in the hindside repairing it.

 

[bumblepee]

Good, lots of responses here. The original question I had was whether putting ethanol-free gas can replace adding stabilizers as a better approach to winter storage. Looks like most people do not use ethanol-free gas, neither in everyday fill-ups nor for winterizing (without stabilizers, of course). I can't find easily ethanol-free gas around here anyway.

P.s. The warranty disclaimer I signed might have been for higher ethanol grades over 10%, don't remember the exact value, but remember it had to do with ethanol in the gas.

 

[670cc]

Good, lots of responses here. The original question I had was whether putting ethanol-free gas can replace adding stabilizers as a better approach to winter storage. Looks like most people do not use ethanol-free gas, neither in everyday fill-ups nor for winterizing (without stabilizers, of course). I can't find easily ethanol-free gas around here anyway.

P.s. The warranty disclaimer I signed might have been for higher ethanol grades over 10%, don't remember the exact value, but remember it had to do with ethanol in the gas.

Is this for a warranty that you purchased from a third party? I wouldn’t think any disclaimers need be signed for the standard Honda warranty.

 

[lootzyan]

Ethanol free gas? - it sounds very exotic.
I remember that once upon a time there was something like that available? But today? I checked on Google. The nearest gas station with this option is about 80 miles from me (maybe).
But I can buy at Lowe's or Home Depot - TruFuel 110 fl.oz. Ethanol Free 4-Cycle Fuel - $19.98. That's around $23 a gallon (93 plus octane)... Real bargain... But metal can probably costs at least $15.

 

[TNHoosier]

Almost every station near me carries ethanol free gas (90 octane) due to the lakes and rivers nearby. Most marine engines are not updated for ethanol in the gas. There are a lot of fishing tournaments, etc in my area so ethanol free is readily available. I started filling my NC with ethanol free gas a few weeks ago, also bought a few gallons for the mowers.

 

[TNHoosier]

That escalated quickly.

 

[Rabbit]

Very quickly!