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First Time Out on Dirt

Naked_Duc

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First Time Out on Dirt - with Follow up

UPDATE WITH FOLLOW UP TRIP

I knew before I bought the NC700 that it's not an true "Adventure" bike. It's a standard bike with upright / adventure-ish ergo. But in comparison to my other sporty bike, the NC700X is more comfortable and more "capable" offroad. One of the reason I got the NC700X is to be able to ride some logging / gravel roads and on little adventure.

Recently, I got the Pirelli Scorpion Trails put on and worked up some courage to do some off roads out in the Cascades in Washington State. The result was AWESOME FUN! I thoroughly enjoyed my trip.

NC1.jpg

It was wet and just above freezing. The national forest road (NF-5700) is packed dirt with pot holes. There are some gravel and muddy areas but the bike and tires did great getting me out of those soft stuff.

I took it easy on my first time out. Mainly stayed in 1st and 2nd gear, only up to 25 mph. I worked on riding while standing up, eyes down the road, and light touch on the handlebar. Also worked on leaning in turns (tipping the bike in while leaning the opposite side). I instinctively put my inside foot down on a couple turns. hmmmm.

NC2.jpg

Snaking around pot holes was interesting, too. I ended up hitting a couple pot holes head on, bottoming out the suspension. I had to force myself to look further down the road and think ahead. Lesson learned. I got a lot better on the way out. I also tested out how much grip I have by working hard on the rear brake to see where the breaking point is. Also dropped the clutch a couple of time from a start to see how hard/easy to break loose the rear tire. The Scorpion Trail has a lot more grip than I expected. Very surprising. :)

This is the view I got after the trip. What a fun ride. Can't wait till my next trip out. I plan on riding a lot further into the National Forest.

NC3.jpg
 
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Been following the guys from Canada who are making the trek Canada to the tip of South America on NC700's. This bike is more than capable for off-roading and adventuring. You are correct, the key is in practice and tires.

Nice photos, makes me a little jealous of some of you living so close to places like that.
 
Thanks, OldJeff and JoeZ. I am not a photographer and don't claim to be one. These were a few pictures taken with a cellphone. I, too, was in awe of the views that I had to stop dead in my tracks just to take it all in.
 
Been following the guys from Canada who are making the trek Canada to the tip of South America on NC700's. This bike is more than capable for off-roading and adventuring. You are correct, the key is in practice and tires.

Nice photos, makes me a little jealous of some of you living so close to places like that.

I, too, read up on that trip (from another post here). It's an adventure of a life time, for sure. I think the bike does fine on fire trails and logging roads. It will struggle to keep up when the road gets rough. But for regular guys like us, I think the NCX will do just fine.

Don't be jealous of the scenery. You live in some beautiful country, yourself. My buddy and I drove thru Kentucky and Tennessee when he helped me move to Georgia. Everywhere we go in KY and TN (we took plenty of side trips), it looks just like a postcard. The icing on the cake was the trip to Jack Daniel's Distillery in Lynchburg and took the Winchester HWY on the way out. Simply breathtaking!
 
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I miss my mountains. I used to live in Colorado Springs... But didn't have a bike back then. There are some nice rides down here, and will be working to do them this year. My first weekend trip out of state will be Dragon's Tail.
 
If you are going to do a lot of adventure riding off road make sure an attach a adventure map like this to your bike. I bought mine at pep boys auto for $1.99, and it is attached to my windshield.

Compass.jpg

Windshield Compass.jpg
 
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Always - I practice orienteering whenever I am out for a hike, which is quite often, and should be even more so now. Learned it in the military and have enjoyed it ever since. I am gonna get a decent road atlas and keep my compass in the bike. I have a small container that fits under the seat in the back for a small knife and the compass. Still getting the gear together and out of storage.

This is what I have for hiking:
http://www.amazon.com/Suunto®-Navig...1431732&sr=8-41&keywords=orienteering+compass
 
Always - I practice orienteering whenever I am out for a hike, which is quite often, and should be even more so now. Learned it in the military and have enjoyed it ever since. I am gonna get a decent road atlas and keep my compass in the bike. I have a small container that fits under the seat in the back for a small knife and the compass. Still getting the gear together and out of storage.

This is what I have for hiking:
http://www.amazon.com/Suunto®-Navig...1431732&sr=8-41&keywords=orienteering+compass

When I went to escape and evasion school when in the army, this fellow here was my partner, because when under attack the 1st night out I fell into a hole landing on him. We stayed in the hole the entire night so as not to get caught.

Patton.jpg

I had the compass and he had the map. He was a full bull so he carried the map and the compass. After a day and a half, we ended up back where we started. So, I politely told him to give me the map and compass SIR, so we can at least make a check point. I got again to visit him when he was the general at Fort Hood, he died in 2004.
 
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I took the NCX out on the fire trail this past weekend. I continue to work on techniques and riding positions. This time around, I am more comfortable on dirt and was able to ride a bit faster and a lot further into the wilderness. The trail also got increasingly rougher, which did help me stay on my toes. gravel section, wet and muddy, and some standing water (prob 8" deep). All in all, it was really enjoyable and a great way to spend the morning.

Now here's some afterthoughts:

The NCX isn't bad on dirt. It isn't good but it isn't bad either. The ergo, with bar riser, fits my 5'7 frame well. I am able to stand pretty straight and still reach the handle bar. Maybe lower the pegs by a inch? I think I am fine with the stock pegs.

Now onto the suspension. I think the suspension is fine at speed on pavement for the most part. The high damping is way too harsh that you can really feel the bumps. On dirt, the problem is really amplified. My hands and arms were rattled as the speed picked up. The handlebar was also twisted back and down a bit after the ride. Yah, I think I might have hit one too many potholes. :p The bike also understeers in corners? Don't know for sure as I am still new to riding on dirt. After reading threads on fork upgrades, I think I will definitely looking getting the RaceTech Emulator. I will talk to the guys at RaceTech to see if new springs are needed since I only weight 145 (without gear).

The rear shock is perfectly fine for pavement and it does a ok job on dirt. I didn't notice anything too terrible, that is, until I went thru a uphill washboard section. As I pick up some speed and stay on gas going up the hill, I can feel the rear tire bouncing all over the place and spinning out. The bike struggled a bit to maintain speed but got thru it ok. I don't know if that's expected and I should have give it a lot more gas or if it's more than what the shock can handle. Since there isn't much you can do to improve on stock shock, what are my options out there? Thoughts?
 
The RaceTech Gold Valves make a big difference with the high speed dampening. I drilled out 3 of the 4 high speed holes and am thinking about drilling out the 4th. I also used the light spring and set it on the light end for low speed dampening. I then filled the forks on the full side to have good bottoming resistance. I think it was 125mm of air space which made for 1 bottle of fork oil per fork. All of that will make sense when you get the valves and read the instructions. I said with the stock springs. I’m ~175lbs. No matter what, RaceTech is going to tell you to go with their single rate springs. After doing the forks it made the rear shock’s deficiency show up even more. I’m hoping to get an aftermarket shock soon. Aftermarket replacement shock is the only option on the rear. The factory shock isn’t adjustable or rebuildable.

The washboards are more than the stock rear can handle. Carrying more speed going into them may help. More throttle while in them will more than likely make it worse as the tire will spin and grab even more which will add to the load on the shock which is already overwhelmed. I personally try to not spin the rear if possible…….kind of a tread lightly philosophy. There are times when spinning is necessary like getting through deep mud but otherwise I try to carry enough speed and/or back off the throttle and let the bike tractor up stuff.

Rox risers rotating. The Gold Vales will help smooth out the forks which should help prevent the rotation but I had to rough up the risers to get them to hold in the clamp. After doing that I don’t have an issue with them rotating anymore. I used a dremel to cut very shallow slots in the cylinder that mounts in the original clamps.

Pushing in turns (understeer). I think the bike is nose heavy. I find that it turns better in the dirt when I have a full load of luggage. I don’t know what tires you are running but the more aggressive tires like the tkc80 does help with the pushing.
 
For me, the worst part of the OEM shock doing it's pogo thing as bamamate says, was on steeper uphill sections in loose and soft washboard dirt/gravel. Most of the time, it was right at that point between first and second gear, where first was too high rpm, but second bogged out every 5 or 10 feet. The bouncing of the shock caused near redline rpm in first when kicked up off a crest, but if you went to second gear, when the wheel came back down into a gully, it would get traction for an instant, and bog, needing a shift down. Boom- too high rpm, shift up. Bog. Shift down...repeat...repeat...repeat...

It gets very tiresome doing that, and the amount of crunching and clacking from the chain going from slack to full taut and whipping off the swingarm just made me wince continuously.

Now, the back end tracks the corrugations and allows a slower pace or a faster pace, depending on my mood/conditions without that no man's land in between speed. I feel infinitely more relaxed and if nothing else, the horrible sounds from the driveline aren't there anymore to make me feel so uncomfortable lol
 
Let me just say that I am NOT trying to hijack this great thread but it would be great if a NEW thread could be started which would detail actual side by side comparisons of the NC700X with a NC700X-DCT model in off pavement riding.
I'm thinking, the DCT may have some definite advantages for the less experienced rider.
 
Thanks, Bamamate, for the feedback. I think the RT emulator will be a cheap fix that will provide a lot of bang for the buck. I don't need the NCX to be able to jump tree stumps and cross big boulders. Having the "bandaid fix" instead of a full cartridge upgrade is good enough to let me goof around on some dirt roads. My only concern is - would the upgrade affect handling on pavement? Are you noticed any difference?

Both of you, Bamamate and LBS, know exactly what I was talking with how the rear shock is overwhelmed going uphill in washboard/rough surface. I wanted to maintain speed so I gave it more gas. In turn, it caused the wheel to spin more and hop around more. Instead of dropping big dollar on a aftermarket shock, what would your recommendation for a direct plug 'n play shock from another bike? I see some threads on the Tuono and CBR shocks. Any pros and cons on doing a swap?
 
Thanks, Bamamate, for the feedback. I think the RT emulator will be a cheap fix that will provide a lot of bang for the buck. I don't need the NCX to be able to jump tree stumps and cross big boulders. Having the "bandaid fix" instead of a full cartridge upgrade is good enough to let me goof around on some dirt roads. My only concern is - would the upgrade affect handling on pavement? Are you noticed any difference?

Both of you, Bamamate and LBS, know exactly what I was talking with how the rear shock is overwhelmed going uphill in washboard/rough surface. I wanted to maintain speed so I gave it more gas. In turn, it caused the wheel to spin more and hop around more. Instead of dropping big dollar on a aftermarket shock, what would your recommendation for a direct plug 'n play shock from another bike? I see some threads on the Tuono and CBR shocks. Any pros and cons on doing a swap?

The CBR shock seems like it might be the more readily available one, probably a bit more easy on the wallet too, based on sheer volume of bikes sold, but sorry I can't really say there.

I think (from my take on it) the only drawback might be a little loss of travel. But even at that, I don't know if the shocks compared together might be almost the same, but the linkage is what changes the travel arc length ratio on the NCX? If this is the case, then I'm sure a cheap and cheerful set of slightly shorter dogbones could be fabbed up, or some adjustable ones bought to compensate and get the ride height back to where you would want it for ground clearance.

Hopefully Northwest and some of the other folks with different shocks will chime in with their good info for you :D
 
Let me just say that I am NOT trying to hijack this great thread but it would be great if a NEW thread could be started which would detail actual side by side comparisons of the NC700X with a NC700X-DCT model in off pavement riding.
I'm thinking, the DCT may have some definite advantages for the less experienced rider.

To my knowledge Hondabikepro (Dale) is the only one to take the DCT off-road on more than gentle gravel. He has thrown his thoughts out here somewhere in various threads. The sum is the DCT does well off-road. The only “issue” he has hit is not being able to loft the front wheel. Lots of people will tell you the ABS and linked brakes on the US DCT will kill you off-road……whatever……Dale has stated that he has had competitions with other non-ABS bikes and has stomped them. Similar to a stick vs auto 4x4, the DCT may need some tweaks to some techniques. For example, on a very steep hill where you would want to lock the rear and slide down you would need to stop first and keep the bike under 5 mph to prevent ABS from coming on so you can lock the rear.

My opinion the DCT would be great for someone new to off-road. Put her in manual mode and go. The ABS will help keep you from locking up the front and washing out. Being off-road doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of your braking ability is still on the front. I think the linked braking which gives you some front braking while only using the rear pedal would be an advantage in a lot of situations and yes it could be a hinderance in some technical situations.
 
To my knowledge Hondabikepro (Dale) is the only one to take the DCT off-road on more than gentle gravel. He has thrown his thoughts out here somewhere in various threads. The sum is the DCT does well off-road. The only “issue” he has hit is not being able to loft the front wheel. Lots of people will tell you the ABS and linked brakes on the US DCT will kill you off-road……whatever……Dale has stated that he has had competitions with other non-ABS bikes and has stomped them. Similar to a stick vs auto 4x4, the DCT may need some tweaks to some techniques. For example, on a very steep hill where you would want to lock the rear and slide down you would need to stop first and keep the bike under 5 mph to prevent ABS from coming on so you can lock the rear.

My opinion the DCT would be great for someone new to off-road. Put her in manual mode and go. The ABS will help keep you from locking up the front and washing out. Being off-road doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of your braking ability is still on the front. I think the linked braking which gives you some front braking while only using the rear pedal would be an advantage in a lot of situations and yes it could be a hinderance in some technical situations.

Re: the ABS/Linked part- (only a concern on 2012 XA and DCT models, the linked part was discontinued for the 2013 I think, right?)

The only snafu I ran into, was my own darned fault, but it brought to light something I hadn't considered. I found I really liked ABS on my NCX, on road and off, with no appallingly hideous effects of ABS in gravel, to the degree in which I ride it in. Same with the Linked part. No biggy.

*but* what caused much fear on my part, was when I erm... tweaked the front ABS sensor out of alignment, and caused the ABS to stop working. That was still no great grief for me, but the linked part still worked fine. This meant I had front braking going on when I only wanted rear brake, and now had to worry about locking the front tire up under sketchy conditions, when my hand was nowhere near the front lever. Ack! :eek:

This was an entirely new situation I have never had to deal with, and spooked me for many nervous miles last summer in my gravel road excursions I tell you, lol :eek:

A smarter than the average bear would have fixed the ABS sensor prior to riding, of course. :rolleyes: :whistles:
 
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