• A few people have been scammed on the site, Only use paypal to pay for items for sale by other members. If they will not use paypal, its likely a scam NEVER SEND E-TRANSFERS OF ANY KIND.

Gas pricing

Rabbit

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
668
Reaction score
413
Points
63
Location
Ohio
Visit site
I didn’t factor in good gear or farkling because that isn’t strictly necessary,
 

670cc

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Mods
Site Supporter
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
10,002
Reaction score
3,418
Points
113
Location
USA
Visit site
I considered for my Bike: tires, oil changes, cost per mile to own (depreciation= purchase price/expected lifetime of bike), sprockets and chains, valve checks.

I didn’t include insurance or yearly tags because that is a fixed cost and you pay regardless of miles driven. The big savings comes from gas: almost 6 cents a mile for me and depreciation at 4.8 cents per mile. So I’m saving almost 7 dollars every day on my commute. If I learn to do valve checks myself it reduces another 1.5 cents per mile. All other maintenance costs (filters, spark plugs and the like) are a break even with cars. I also re looked at the math and tags + insurance would add another 1.3 cents per mile or there about.
I think you did a good breakdown of the costs. So the car costs a little more to operate. Consider though, that the car also adds to the comparison luxuries such as weather protection, interior environmental control, more luggage space and maybe a spare tire, crash protection for occupants, ability to carry young, old, or disabled occupants that could not ride on a motorcycle, better stability, and possibly space for four or five occupants instead of 2.
 

Rabbit

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
668
Reaction score
413
Points
63
Location
Ohio
Visit site
I think you did a good breakdown of the costs. So the car costs a little more to operate. Consider though, that the car also adds to the comparison luxuries such as weather protection, interior environmental control, more luggage space and maybe a spare tire, crash protection for occupants, ability to carry young, old, or disabled occupants that could not ride on a motorcycle, better stability, and possibly space for four or five occupants instead of 2.
Oh, absolutely. I’m just looking At it from a ‘what do I take to work today’ function. It also helps me justify to the missus why I ‘Need’ that gadget. ;)
 

TheIronWarrior

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
423
Reaction score
324
Points
63
Location
Halifax, NS, Canada
Visit site
I considered for my Bike: tires, oil changes, cost per mile to own (depreciation= purchase price/expected lifetime of bike), sprockets and chains, valve checks.

I didn’t include insurance or yearly tags because that is a fixed cost and you pay regardless of miles driven. The big savings comes from gas: almost 6 cents a mile for me and depreciation at 4.8 cents per mile. So I’m saving almost 7 dollars every day on my commute. If I learn to do valve checks myself it reduces another 1.5 cents per mile. All other maintenance costs (filters, spark plugs and the like) are a break even with cars. I also re looked at the math and tags + insurance would add another 1.3 cents per mile or there about.
I think I disagree with your methodology, if I'm understanding you right.
If you're ignoring fixed costs because you're paying them anyway, you've already decided to have the bike and the comparison is no longer "is the bike saving me money" and is instead "is using the bike saving me money." Nothing wrong with that, but it's a different metric, and I'm not even sure you captured that quite right either.

If you want to see if the bike saves you money, you need to show that the entire TCO of the bike is offset by any savings you can achieve by riding the bike in place of the car. For simplicity, we'll also ignore the fact that most people tend to do ADDITIONAL mileage on the bike for fun that is not a direct replacement for car mileage.

For example, if you determine the TCO of the bike is, let's say $25000, you then need to show that the 5¢/mi adds up to $25000 before you get rid of the bike. Not owning a bike immediately saves you that $25000, so you would have to show that using the bike saves that amount to be able to say it's actually saving you money.

It's a little more complex than that, but ignoring the fact that the TCO of the bike doesn't exist in the "car only" scenario is a big piece of the analysis missing if you want to say having a bike saves you money.

Using a bike you already have may save you some money, but you're talking maybe $600-$700 in a year? At that rate, you could be looking at a 40 year payback period. Not a very good ROI if you ask me.
 

TheIronWarrior

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
423
Reaction score
324
Points
63
Location
Halifax, NS, Canada
Visit site
Oh, absolutely. I’m just looking At it from a ‘what do I take to work today’ function. It also helps me justify to the missus why I ‘Need’ that gadget. ;)
That's very fair.
I know I take one of my bikes as often as possible because it costs more to have it and not use it than to have it and use it.
 

Rabbit

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
668
Reaction score
413
Points
63
Location
Ohio
Visit site
I think I disagree with your methodology, if I'm understanding you right.
If you're ignoring fixed costs because you're paying them anyway, you've already decided to have the bike and the comparison is no longer "is the bike saving me money" and is instead "is using the bike saving me money." Nothing wrong with that, but it's a different metric, and I'm not even sure you captured that quite right either.

If you want to see if the bike saves you money, you need to show that the entire TCO of the bike is offset by any savings you can achieve by riding the bike in place of the car. For simplicity, we'll also ignore the fact that most people tend to do ADDITIONAL mileage on the bike for fun that is not a direct replacement for car mileage.

For example, if you determine the TCO of the bike is, let's say $25000, you then need to show that the 5¢/mi adds up to $25000 before you get rid of the bike. Not owning a bike immediately saves you that $25000, so you would have to show that using the bike saves that amount to be able to say it's actually saving you money.

It's a little more complex than that, but ignoring the fact that the TCO of the bike doesn't exist in the "car only" scenario is a big piece of the analysis missing if you want to say having a bike saves you money.

Using a bike you already have may save you some money, but you're talking maybe $600-$700 in a year? At that rate, you could be looking at a 40 year payback period. Not a very good ROI if you ask me.
Not a good ROI if you view it purely on as a mode of transportation and you also require a car. However if you view it as a hobby where if I were not riding I would be replacing that with guns, boats, sky diving wood working or something else that might cost money, this is a hobby that can save me money and does help pay for itself. That I think is an excellent ROI. The whole exercise was also to see does a bike save me money riding into work
 

the Ferret

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2021
Messages
1,422
Reaction score
1,487
Points
113
Location
sw Ohio
Visit site
My truck is 12 years old and has 64,000 miles on it. In the same time I have ridden over 220,000 miles on my bikes. They don't save me money...they cost me money. A lot of money. Riding is my only pleasure though. I don't gamble, don't drink alcohol, don't smoke, rarely go out for "fine" dining. I'm happy with a 4 for $4 meal from Wendy's if eating out. My "vice" money is spent on motorcycles, gas, tires and the occasional relatively cheap motel lol.
 

Rabbit

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
668
Reaction score
413
Points
63
Location
Ohio
Visit site
My truck is 12 years old and has 64,000 miles on it. In the same time I have ridden over 220,000 miles on my bikes. They don't save me money...they cost me money. A lot of money. Riding is my only pleasure though. I don't gamble, don't drink alcohol, don't smoke, rarely go out for "fine" dining. I'm happy with a 4 for $4 meal from Wendy's if eating out. My "vice" money is spent on motorcycles, gas, tires and the occasional relatively cheap motel lol.
Think about how much more you would spend if you were drinking instead of riding. Your bike is saving you all kinds of money. All about perspective!
 

mzflorida

Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 3, 2017
Messages
649
Reaction score
472
Points
63
Location
Estero, Florida
Visit site
The other thing nobody has mentioned is that this planet, like all planets have a life span and aging process. This planet has seen an ice age, expansive floods, etc. We only have insight to a snapshot of it's life.

This may be bigger than all of us.
In case you are interested...https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-11/1%20Glacial-Interglacial%20Cycles-Final-OCT%202021.pdf
 

Oldbear

Active Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
260
Reaction score
227
Points
43
Location
Bowling Green, Kentucky
Visit site
Just remember too that we as a species are relative newcomers to the world. I’m a good bit older than most here, but I very clearly remember in the late 1970’s when the “experts” were confidently predicting that we were entering a “new ice age”, with forecasts of massive glaciers, etc, etc. (The sky is falling, the sky is falling). Frankly I believe that humans vastly overrate our impact on things. One single massive volcanic eruption can project more junk into the atmosphere than decades of our meddling. (Dont believe me? Lookup the year with no summer, you may find it enlightning.). We all need to be good stewards, but we also need to look at reality, not the countless “theories” and “Hypothesis” that are continually floating to the surface. Growing up in coal country in the midwest I remember well as a kid the clouds of coal smoke from home furnaces and stoves. It’s not there today. I remember well smoky exhaust from diesel trucks, it too is not there today. I remember the heavy haze in Chicago and the suburbs when we went to visit family their-it too is mostly gone. Despite more people, they world WE here in the US live in today is a bunch cleaner than it was 60 years ago. YMMV
 

melensdad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
2,055
Reaction score
2,319
Points
113
Location
usa
Visit site
Just remember too that we as a species are relative newcomers to the world. I’m a good bit older than most here, but I very clearly remember in the late 1970’s when the “experts” were confidently predicting that we were entering a “new ice age”, with forecasts of massive glaciers, etc, etc. (The sky is falling, the sky is falling). Frankly I believe that humans vastly overrate our impact on things. One single massive volcanic eruption can project more junk into the atmosphere than decades of our meddling. (Dont believe me? Lookup the year with no summer, you may find it enlightning.). We all need to be good stewards, but we also need to look at reality, not the countless “theories” and “Hypothesis” that are continually floating to the surface. Growing up in coal country in the midwest I remember well as a kid the clouds of coal smoke from home furnaces and stoves. It’s not there today. I remember well smoky exhaust from diesel trucks, it too is not there today. I remember the heavy haze in Chicago and the suburbs when we went to visit family their-it too is mostly gone. Despite more people, they world WE here in the US live in today is a bunch cleaner than it was 60 years ago. YMMV
Thank you! Simple sanity mixed with reality. I too recall the doom and gloom ice age education, the greenhouse panic that followed it. . .
 

Oldbear

Active Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2021
Messages
260
Reaction score
227
Points
43
Location
Bowling Green, Kentucky
Visit site
Thank you! Simple sanity mixed with reality. I too recall the doom and gloom ice age education, the greenhouse panic that followed it. . .
The irony is is that, technically, “if “ we are entering a “greenhouse” phase with global warming, the easiest way to resolve the issue would be More contaminants in the air to block the extra sunlight. I think I just heard someone’s head explode
 

davidc83

Site Supporter
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
2,658
Reaction score
545
Points
113
Location
Southern Indiana/Central Florida-part time snow bi
Visit site
Record winter cold and snow in winter of 76 and 77....Science magazines proclaiming the coming of the next Ice Age (got an A in 12th grade Physics class on a report for the articles)...few years later, the Space Shuttle launches, finds possible evidence of a hole in the Ozone, and then it was 'global warming'.....someone needs to invent Highlander 2 shield technology and put the shield up .....hehehe..
 

the Ferret

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2021
Messages
1,422
Reaction score
1,487
Points
113
Location
sw Ohio
Visit site
Those WERE some tough winters. Remember them well. Cold and snow. I was working at a Honda Kawasaki Suzuki shop her in Ohio and nobody would come in all day, day after day.
 

Doc True

Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Messages
292
Reaction score
88
Points
28
Location
Loonyville, KY
Visit site
The vast majority of science articles published in the 1970's predicted global warming. Only ~10% predicted cooling. The idea was popularized in the general public by some unusually cold winters and a very misleading and factually incorrect article in Newsweek that was propagated in other sources. The scientific consensus of the 70's predicted global warming. There never was a change. This myth was caused by poor science reporting
 

dduelin

Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
5,461
Reaction score
2,156
Points
113
Location
North FL USA
Visit site
ITS all about the money!

SAD but TRUE!
If you follow the real money it's saying "Don't Look Up."

Just remember too that we as a species are relative newcomers to the world. I’m a good bit older than most here, but I very clearly remember in the late 1970’s when the “experts” were confidently predicting that we were entering a “new ice age”, with forecasts of massive glaciers, etc, etc. (The sky is falling, the sky is falling). Frankly I believe that humans vastly overrate our impact on things. One single massive volcanic eruption can project more junk into the atmosphere than decades of our meddling. (Dont believe me? Lookup the year with no summer, you may find it enlightning.). We all need to be good stewards, but we also need to look at reality, not the countless “theories” and “Hypothesis” that are continually floating to the surface. Growing up in coal country in the midwest I remember well as a kid the clouds of coal smoke from home furnaces and stoves. It’s not there today. I remember well smoky exhaust from diesel trucks, it too is not there today. I remember the heavy haze in Chicago and the suburbs when we went to visit family their-it too is mostly gone. Despite more people, they world WE here in the US live in today is a bunch cleaner than it was 60 years ago. YMMV
The vast majority of science articles published in the 1970's predicted global warming. Only ~10% predicted cooling. The idea was popularized in the general public by some unusually cold winters and a very misleading and factually incorrect article in Newsweek that was propagated in other sources. The scientific consensus of the 70's predicted global warming. There never was a change. This myth was caused by poor science reporting
 

melensdad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
2,055
Reaction score
2,319
Points
113
Location
usa
Visit site
The vast majority of science articles published in the 1970's predicted global warming. Only ~10% predicted cooling. The idea was popularized in the general public by some unusually cold winters and a very misleading and factually incorrect article in Newsweek that was propagated in other sources. The scientific consensus of the 70's predicted global warming. There never was a change. This myth was caused by poor science reporting
A new ice age was taught in the school system I attended.
 

itsmenc700

Active Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
121
Reaction score
60
Points
28
Location
St Paul
Visit site
Dont Look Up was soooooo right on the money. If you havent watched it yet - do it!
And then just after it was released our "real" govt had to pick a supreme court justice - priceless!
 
Top