Honda SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!

[dduelin]

My garage is like Clint Eastwood's character in Grand Torino. I've got cap-type wrenches to fit every car or motorcycle I've owned since 1988, cloth & metal strap wrenches I inherited from my mechanic father's tools, slip joint plier type, and the three-fingered thing that tightens up when turned CCW. Since 2005 almost every car or motorcycle I've owned I'll use the P shaped wrench in #11. It fits Honda cars and motorcycles and Mazdas. It has not failed me yet and if the filter wrench is jammed tight around the filter and resists coming off the filter, a tap with a hammer on the handle gets it loose. This particular one I had to grind off a lot of metal in order to clear the exhaust headers on a ST1300.

 

[halfSpinDoctor]

if you have the proper tools you wouldn't have this problem. cheap enough to buy.
I have 2 set and believe me these are god send.

I also have this. Same size filter wrench as all Honda/Acura cars.

The filter on the bike when I bought it was extremely tight. I ended up deforming the 3/8" drive hole on the filter wrench trying to yank on it with a breaker bar (dumb, I know...). But eventually it came off. Pretty sure my bike never had any service done to it when I bought it, so it was probably the factory filter.

 

[ST13Fred]

if you have the proper tools you wouldn't have this problem. cheap enough to buy.
I have 2 set and believe me these are god send.

I have the same. 3/8 drive.

 

[HarveyM]

What in the world are these peeps at Honda thinking, I have never come across an oil filter that damn tight.

Maybe "my stupid sister's kid needs a job, now where can I put him where he'll do the least damage"?

 

[dduelin]

I would think that Honda's Kikuchi factory that assembles the NC700/750X has calibrated tools to tighten critical items with the correct torque. I've seen videos of bikes being manufactured by Honda and many fasteners are torqued with electric and pneumatic tools. I guess the oil filter isn't or maybe being assembled dry contributes to the problem.

 

[MZ5]

My original, factory-installed filter refused to come off with any of the fancy tools. Some things even twisted the can. I did eventually stab through it, and even that almost didn't work. Hopefully they're at least better now than in 2012.

 

[showkey]

The oil filter is torqued at the factory to factory specs. Which is 19 ftlbs.
The filter is considered a safety item and the torque is checked twice on the assembly line and recorded.
The torque tool is checked every hour.
The factory spec is high to absolutely guarantee no leaks.
While the motorcycle is rarely used in winter, thick oil from cold weather, higher viscosity oil than spec oil pressure at the filter at cold start can exceed 150-200 PSI. That filter torque and gasket is designed not to leak at the extreme.

The heat cool cycling the filter gasket sticks to the case which increases the effort needed to remove the filter.
Once the gaskets stick to the cases……the filter is very much “glued” to the engine case.

The reason it rarely happens in subsequent oil changes…….the overwhelmingly vast majority of DIY oil changers and possibly many technicians do not use a torque wrench on the filter. 19 FTLBS is “pretty tight.”

Hand tightening the filter gets you no where near the shop manual torque specification of 19 ftlbs.

Think about this: The drain plug and the filter have similar torque specifications.

 

[670cc]

The oil filter is torqued at the factory to factory specs. Which is 19 ftlbs.
The filter is considered a safety item and the torque is checked twice on the assembly line and recorded.
The torque tool is checked every hour.
The factory spec is high to absolutely guarantee no leaks.
While the motorcycle is rarely used in winter, thick oil from cold weather, higher viscosity oil than spec oil pressure at the filter at cold start can exceed 150-200 PSI. That filter torque and gasket is designed not to leak at the extreme.

The heat cool cycling the filter gasket sticks to the case which increases the effort needed to remove the filter.
Once the gaskets stick to the cases……the filter is very much “glued” to the engine case.

The reason it rarely happens in subsequent oil changes…….the overwhelmingly vast majority of DIY oil changers and possibly many technicians do not use a torque wrench on the filter. 19 FTLBS is “pretty tight.”

Hand tightening the filter gets you no where near the shop manual torque specification of 19 ftlbs.

Think about this: The drain plug and the filter have similar torque specifications.

View attachment 45645View attachment 45646

I’d guess dealer service departments don’t typically use a torque wrench on the oil filter.

 

[Janus]

I’d guess dealer service departments don’t typically use a torque wrench on the oil filter.

Nobody I know does either. They just rolled their eyes when I complain about not having a clockwise rotating oil filter claw as seen on post #19.

I want to use my torque wrenches on anything that has a specification. Not every filter I use works with the caps I have seen on post #12

My life is so hard.

 

[Lomunchi]

I don't bother with the filter ratchet attachment anymore I've always had better luck with strap wrenches

Yeah, but my strap kept slipping.
(That's what she said!)

 

[Lomunchi]

Another option from the folks at Harbor FreightView attachment 45640View attachment 45640

This is what I used but it wouldn't hold. I do think it was partially because it was so tight from the manufacturer. I'll try it again with the next change.

 

[BFair]

I found putting silicone grease on the gasket helps sometimes. The design of the filter may be part of the problem. The conical shape where the internal threads are draws the outer case in. Just a thought since it is a consistent problem.

I like the wrinkle finish for grip on the car filters. The welded wrench boss helps too if you don't over tighten and break a weld.

Got a chuckle on this thread describing the collection of tools. Like old ladies trying to get the lids off jelly jars....

 

[showkey]

I’d guess dealer service departments don’t typically use a torque wrench on the oil filter.

Automotive and cycle techs are trained* in the process.
The quick oil change lane technicians are trained to use a torque wrench on the filter.
They are also trained to use a torque wrench on lug nuts or other fasteners.
Do they use those learned skills ? Depends on management and supervision ? Loose tires and drain plugs can’t get expensive ?

Just purchased car tires at Discount Tire. Watched the tech from a distance. This is a new store near me. They followed a very exacting process from start to finish like:

1. Spotter when racking the the vehicle. Customer drove manual transmission on the lift. Tech was not “certified” to drive manual transmission.
2. Spotter when backing up.
3. announcing when the rack was going up or down.
4. Spin balance double check
5. Two different techs checked tire pressures and lug nut torque

Clearly they learned a process and kept to the process. Clearly they followed the rules especially on the manual transmission thing.

 

[MZ5]

I’ve used a torque wrench on the filter on my bike. The factory filter was MASSIVELY tighter, or more stuck, than that.

 

[mtnbiker1185]

Is the oil filter something that is put on at the factory though, or is that part of assembly by the dealers when they get the bike? They don't ship them with fluids so I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if they didn't bother putting the oil filter on, but I don't actually know that for sure.

I don't see the need to torque on the oil filter considering pretty much every other vehicle with an oil filter states you just need to to turn it 3/4 - 1 full turn past the o ring making contact with the case and has been that way for years. If I recall correctly, even the oil filter on the Harley I use to have was the same way and that motor vibrated like a washing machine.

 

[dduelin]

Is the oil filter something that is put on at the factory though, or is that part of assembly by the dealers when they get the bike? They don't ship them with fluids so I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if they didn't bother putting the oil filter on, but I don't actually know that for sure.

I don't see the need to torque on the oil filter considering pretty much every other vehicle with an oil filter states you just need to to turn it 3/4 - 1 full turn past the o ring making contact with the case and has been that way for years. If I recall correctly, even the oil filter on the Harley I use to have was the same way and that motor vibrated like a washing machine.

The NC700X was shipped fully assembled but for the mirrors and windshield. Here is my 2012 the day it arrived at the selling dealer.

 

[670cc]

Is the oil filter something that is put on at the factory though, or is that part of assembly by the dealers when they get the bike? They don't ship them with fluids so I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if they didn't bother putting the oil filter on, but I don't actually know that for sure.

I don't see the need to torque on the oil filter considering pretty much every other vehicle with an oil filter states you just need to to turn it 3/4 - 1 full turn past the o ring making contact with the case and has been that way for years. If I recall correctly, even the oil filter on the Harley I use to have was the same way and that motor vibrated like a washing machine.

When I saw Honda building Goldwings in the factory in Ohio , the bike was ridable when assemby was done at the factory. An employee would ride each bike onto a dynamometer and run it through the gears.

I don’t know how they build NCs in Japan, but I don’t see why they would not install the oil filter at the factory. I sure would NOT want that responsibility to rest upon a dealer.

 

[Rabbit]

Are there alternatives to the OEM oil filter? The Honda one is made in China and pretty expensive. I’d like to find one by WIX or Fram or something.

 

[MZ5]

Are there alternatives to the OEM oil filter? The Honda one is made in China and pretty expensive. I’d like to find one by WIX or Fram or something.

Fram specifies 2 options for our bikes: the PH6017A, which is their ‘motorcycle’ filter, and the XG-6607, which is a Fram Ultra automotive filter. Note that they do not list their other automotive filters (the Tough Gard or Extra Gard), only the Ultra.

 

[Rabbit]

Fram specifies 2 options for our bikes: the PH6017A, which is their ‘motorcycle’ filter, and the XG-6607, which is a Fram Ultra automotive filter. Note that they do not list their other automotive filters (the Tough Gard or Extra Gard), only the Ultra.

Thanks.