Other riders

[Bcsmith]

So I have been reading some other motorcycle sites and it seems there is a large group of riders that love the big heavy cruisers and another group of riders that enjoy their sport bikes. The thing I seem to be wondering about is how do these people think they can ride these bikes? It looks to me that the vast majority are out of their rider skill level. People buying large cruisers for their first bike and others grabbing onto very high horsepower sport bikes. Now I am not one to judge others choices but my lord I think people lose their minds and over estimate their abilities when purchasing motorcycles. I was out for a ride just the other day when I came across a guy down with a large Harley. There was a tow truck on the scene but the bike was demolished with pieces all up the side of the road. It was a very casual road where he went down and he didn’t have much to say about what had happened but I surmise it was likely rider error and probably had way more bike than he could handle. No wonder there are so many crashes. I realize my limitations and continue to practice all kinds of maneuvers every time I take my NC out. I am coming back after many years of not riding but am by no means a stranger to motorcycling and I feel that the NC is in my wheelhouse. Just wondering what some others think when they sign on the dotted line for one of these beasts? Do any of you others feel this or is it just me???

 

[MZ5]

I agree with you insofar as I would very strongly encourage my kids to NOT get a supersport as a first motorcycle, if they were interested in bikes. It’s just very flatly unwise (perhaps even stupid). I also wouldn’t recommend a really heavy bike of any sort as a first motorcycle, though I think it’s MUCH less dangerous than a supersport for inexperienced riders.

I’ve owned a supersport and regularly ride a very heavy cruiser (though much more powerful than most of the American bikes). Neither was my first motorcycle by a long stretch.

I have taken quite a few more training classes than most of the riders I meet in casual life (thought I note that the group here seems to be higher on training than the ‘average’ in my area). I think that’s very important for us riders to do, regardless our bikes or experience level.

 

[Rabbit]

I think overconfidence is a major factor across our whole sport. It can be in the form of too much bike or too technical a road or too much to drink. I crashed my first bike, a 26 hp 500 cc single by taking it down a gravel road at night. I came out ok, but it taught me a lesson. I think that the most obvious sign of overconfidence is the bike. And, yes, I think too many folks pick their dream bike as their first one though I don’t think heavy cruisers are nearly as much of a problem unless you’re on some very twisty roads.

 

[melensdad]

I know a guy who took a class and learned to ride, then for his first bike bought a 1300cc Honda. Hmmm....

 

[Janus]

I kind of fell for this trap. My first bike was the Suzuki VL800 "Volusia" C50T Boulevard. 805cc and 543lbs/246kg dry. I've seen it listed at 567lb/257kg. It features a square output engine with roughly 45hp and ft-lb of torque. I wanted a cruiser and insisted on a shaft drive.

I read too many melvins claiming I would get bored and insisted that people buy a bike to grow into. I never got very good at riding it until I rode a lot of smaller bikes. I didn't know I could get substantially better (faster, smoother, safer) riding the thing until I got more experience.

I guess I could blame machismo for the choice. I am glad I have it, but I wish I had started on something smaller. I should have gotten a Honda Rebel or something like it

 

[Deleted member 1183]

If ridden well and with due respect to their weight, these big bikes can give a good account of themselves on the road, twisty or otherwise. There is almost an art to getting the best out of them. I had two of the heaviest at different times in my life and I thoroughly enjoyed them. At age 70 I would not be able to manhandle them effectively nowadays. My two were the Kawasaki Z1300 and the Honda GL1800. The Honda in particular was an amazing machine and could get up to antics that far belied its size and weight. .

 

[Penguinsfan82]

So I have been reading some other motorcycle sites and it seems there is a large group of riders that love the big heavy cruisers and another group of riders that enjoy their sport bikes. The thing I seem to be wondering about is how do these people think they can ride these bikes? It looks to me that the vast majority are out of their rider skill level. People buying large cruisers for their first bike and others grabbing onto very high horsepower sport bikes. Now I am not one to judge others choices but my lord I think people lose their minds and over estimate their abilities when purchasing motorcycles. I was out for a ride just the other day when I came across a guy down with a large Harley. There was a tow truck on the scene but the bike was demolished with pieces all up the side of the road. It was a very casual road where he went down and he didn’t have much to say about what had happened but I surmise it was likely rider error and probably had way more bike than he could handle. No wonder there are so many crashes. I realize my limitations and continue to practice all kinds of maneuvers every time I take my NC out. I am coming back after many years of not riding but am by no means a stranger to motorcycling and I feel that the NC is in my wheelhouse. Just wondering what some others think when they sign on the dotted line for one of these beasts? Do any of you others feel this or is it just me???

Why worry about what other riders are doing? The golden rule of motorcycling is "ride your own ride". There are many things to consider when one purchases a motorcycle-like budget, availability, ergonomics, size of the rider, etc. and unless you know the person well, you wouldn't know why anyone chose the bike they chose. Live and let ride.

 

[Ron Doles]

When I was 14 years old. My dad bought me a 1958 Allstate Highlander made by Cushman. At the time I thought it was the cat's whiskers. By todays standards it would not be considered safe. It was a hardtail with just spring suspension in the front. The seat was a stamped metal pan. Passengers sat on the gas tank and put their feet on the tube frame. The unguarded spinning clutch on the right side ate many a tennis shoe of my passengers. There was no battery so lighting was by magneto. At idle, a bic lighter was brighter than either the headlight or taillight. It only had a rear drum brake which was pedal operated and actuated a square cam. If allowed to go out of adjustment, it would cam-over when you pressed on the pedal and the brake pedal would go to the floor. The engine had about a 10 lb flywheel that acted like a gyroscope and resisted any quick change of direction at speed. I cut my teeth on it as a two wheel rider until I turned 16 and bought a Honda 305 SuperHawk.


The SuperHawk had better lighting, better not great suspension. It had better brakes both front and rear. It put me in the hospital for 13 days because it also had a lot more horsepower and that mixed with poor judgement and a little testosterone is a bad combination. The injuries were mostly roadrash everywhere from an over the handlebar dismount at 70 mph due to hitting a speedbump in an unlit parking lot. The injuries were worse because I was wearing the safety gear of the day which was a t-shirt, shorts and sandals. After that accident, I never rode without good boots, long pants and a helmet. I rode dirt bikes a lot in my younger days and fallen a lot. With offroad riding you get better at falling in a way that avoids injuries. I have owned about a dozen bikes since my SuperHawk days and have learned to have more respect for the bike I am riding and my capabilities. My SuperHawk accident was my last injury accident in 60 years of riding, knock on wood.


My cousin, who was 70, woke up one morning and decided that he wanted to get a motorcycle. He went to the Harley shop and bought a RoadKing. He was pulling out of his driveway and dropped it on his leg. He shattered his leg and ankle. He asked my brother to sell his almost new, dinged up RoadKing for him. His total motorcycle riding days spanned about 2 weeks. He said that he won't get on another one.

It is certainly better to start out on something lighter with less horsepower and then move up to bigger, more powerful bikes but some people are lucky enough to start out on fast bikes or heavy cruisers and gain experience without any serious problems. Other knuckleheads like me get in over their heads early.

 

[MolsonMuscle]

I went shopping for my first real motorcycle at age 19 after growing up riding a small dirt bike, a moped, and a couple of scooters. I went to take a look at a CB500 someone had advertised in the paper. The seller was kind enough to give me some advice, realizing this was going to be my first full-sized motorcycle. He laid the bike down on the road and asked me to pick it up. He said the bike shouldn't be too big for me to pick up. I never knew how heavy a motorcycle was until that point.

I ended up getting a 1982 CB450 Nighthawk, which was very similar to that CB500. And I did drop it on myself once when I got off and forgot to put the kickstand down. But it didn't hurt me too badly.

Anyway I thought that person gave me some great advice and I never forgot it even after a quarter century. I've ridden some heavier bikes, but I always think, is this bike too much for me to handle? Same goes for power. Is this bike going to get away from me? I guess people don't know what that means until the bike actually gets away from them the first time.

I will say that riding a sport bike (not a super sport) gives me a lot more confidence. They handle better, have better brakes, are lighter, and have all the power on tap when you need it. Unfortunately they're also super uncomfortable for long distance riding, which is why I'm in the market for an NC.

 

[EastTenn]

No doubt about it. I know many riders who were in their middle age crazies stage, and start out on the big bikes that many think are the only bike that counts as a real motorcycle. It usually resulted in a banged up bike, or worse. I rode as a kid, stopped to raise my kids, then came back to riding in my mid fourties. I started back on a Honda 750 Magna V4. Still, I believe one of the best pound for pound bikes ever. Low seat height, smooth, handled well and more power than you need. It was the perfect bike to get me back. If I had immediately jumped on a 1500 bike, who knows if I would still be riding now.

 

[NWGABikeGuy]

GUILTY! (But fortunately still alive). I grew-up in FL in the 1960's and '70's and started riding at age 14 on my learner's permit as was legal. I wore all the protective gear of the day - a 1/2 helmet, cut-off jeans, and Converse sneakers... if it wasn't too hot, I even wore a t-shirt! I started with a Honda 50 Cub because "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" - and also because I had to pay for it all - bike, insurance, gas, gear, etc. As minimum wage increased above $1.25 an hour, I saved-up from my various part-time jobs, and upgraded to a Suzuki TS90, which I thought at the time was a rocket. My heart lusted for the 125 Stinger, but my wallet and wages said "No". My girlfriend-fiance'-wife and I went everywhere on my bike in all kinds of FL riding conditions, the worst at the time being swarms of the dreaded and juicy black Love Bugs, I couldn't afford a car until my senior year in college, and by then married, we bought a 1965 Corvair Corsa (black steel and vinyl interior, no AC, in FL - but we loved it!). Gave my bike to my little brother who rode the hell out of it and trashed it due to lack of maintenance (and went on to become a Delta Captain - go figure).
Fast forward 35 years. Got the itch to ride again, and wanted to take the wife (same one!) on scenic rides and romantic get-aways. With income that now exceeded minimum wage, I lusted this time for a Harley Road King. Yeah - I was an IDIOT. Got one all tricked-out with accommodations for the wife that rivaled a Lazy Boy recliner. With my boyhood "experience" motorcycle riding, I figured a few miles on the Harley and it would all come back. The problem, of course, was that I was very far from ever learning even a fraction of it "all". Took the shiny Ego Beast home in the back of my truck (Thank God in hindsight!). Shined all the chrome for a few days and read the Owners Manual. Took my solo ride by starting carefully and slowly down my 1/4 mile steep driveway and crashed the thing in the woods at the bottom of my driveway. Never even made it out on the street (again - Thank You God!). Some bikers (on Harleys of course) were cruising down the country road on which we live, witnessed the debacle, and graciously came back and helped me get the crippled bike up the driveway ("You meet the nicest people on a Harley too!") I presented myself to my wife with a bloody nose and split lip, and a torn pair of $200 riding leather pants (I'm sure I looked good crashing in the woods, had "Harley" gear everywhere except my boxer shorts!). We agreed that was the end of my riding re-awakening. $4,000 lighter in the wallet, I sold the Harley through the selling dealership that repaired it, and they waived the commission (perhaps a pang of guilt for absolutely no prep or fitting of the bike before delivery?).
Last year, at age 68, having beat cancer and retired, I decided to try again. My wife (same one!) graciously though reluctantly went along. I did swear that I would start small and stay relatively small, and never take a pillion rider (e.g. Her or anyone else). I am sure others can do it with great skill, but I just don't trust my reflexes and core body strength with a rider any longer.
So, I took the MSF course and started with my trusty Royal Enfield Bullet 500 (all 25 bhp of it). I added the NC700X once I gained enough confidence to do longer rides and add camping to the mix. As part of every ride, I go to the local park with several empty parking lots, and practice maneuvers and emergency stops etc. for at least 30 minutes before heading out. It has already paid-off. If I don't have time to practice, I don't ride. I now wear full gear all the time, every time, and have gotten used to including it in my planning. I have to admit that it takes a lot of the spontaneity out of riding, but it also may eliminate a stay in the ICU (or morgue) some day, so I wear it. At first it was annoying and cumbersome. Now I barely notice it.
I take full responsibility for the purely foolish and egotistical decisions that brought me to a bloody halt at the bottom of my driveway. However, I do think that dealerships have some obligation to do a better job of fitting riders to bikes, and making appropriate ergonomic and operational adjustments. My experience has been that they are great at the up-sell on bikes and gear, wonderful at arranging financing, and don't do anything to assist the buyer in making better choices. I am not naive enough to think that dealer diligence will become much of a part of the buying experience, but I do think that in the long run helping new and/or returning bikers make better choices would be good for the business as well as the bikers. Again, my idiotic decisions were my own fault. I often wonder if a dealer guy had asked me about my recent riding experience and suggested a smaller bike, perhaps things would have turned-out better.
My friends, of course, have asked me if I have a death wish. To which I reply that "I do." It's not that I wish to die riding a motorcycle. It's that I wish to die while I am still alive, and not barely live while I am dying or near dead.
When people admire my bikes (I have taken a lot of cell phone pictures for kids and dads sitting on my bikes. You still meet the nicest people on a Honda and a Royal Enfield!), and ask about riding, I encourage them to start small, take lots of training, and practice, practice, practice if they want to start riding. I share my IDIOT experience with every rider I talk with who wants badly to up-size, and ask them frankly if they have mastered the smaller bike they already have. I was very lucky to make it through my DUMB mistakes without too much damage other than my ego and my wallet. I hope we can all help make motorcycle riding more safe by sharing our collective (and often hard earned) wisdom with new or aspiring riders.

 

[Rabbit]

My first bike was also a Royal Enfield bullet. I’m sad they’re being discontinued

 

[NWGABikeGuy]

Me too. Mine is the 2009, which is the first year for EFI and disc brake (front), but it is still based on the tried and true 1932 model. It gets a lot of stares and attention in parking lots because it looks like a relic from WWII. It is so much easier to maintain than the NC700X (although it needs more of it) mainly because everything is pretty basic and easy to get at. RE has brought the new Meteor 350 to the U.S. and has been selling the Himalayan 410 Dual Sport here for a couple of years. They are all priced quite reasonably if you can find a dealer who won't up-charge you an arm and a leg for putting mirrors on and inflating the tires. I actually got mine used with only 1500 miles for less than $2k. These are not your high quality faultless Japanese bikes, but still a blast. I learned early-on that Loctite is your best friend!

 

[Rabbit]

I definitely would like the interceptor 650 but not at the expense of my NC.

 

[Lomunchi]

The most common year for accidents is year 2 after getting your endorsement. You start to think you know what you're doing and don't concentrate on the basics like you do year 1.

I'm signed up for the Intermediate course with MSF next month. Statistics also favor the trained, regardless of bike.

 

[EastTenn]

NWGABikeGuy, your story should be required reading for new riders.

 

[NWGABikeGuy]

NWGABikeGuy, your story should be required reading for new riders.

And older/returning riders...

 

[Hondo53]

I kind of fell for this trap. My first bike was the Suzuki VL800 "Volusia" C50T Boulevard. 805cc and 543lbs/246kg dry. I've seen it listed at 567lb/257kg. It features a square output engine with roughly 45hp and ft-lb of torque. I wanted a cruiser and insisted on a shaft drive.

I read too many melvins claiming I would get bored and insisted that people buy a bike to grow into. I never got very good at riding it until I rode a lot of smaller bikes. I didn't know I could get substantially better (faster, smoother, safer) riding the thing until I got more experience.

I guess I could blame machismo for the choice. I am glad I have it, but I wish I had started on something smaller. I should have gotten a Honda Rebel or something like it

I met a new rider on a Honda Rebel 500 yesterday. It didn’t strike me as a beginner bike at all. 150 and 250 dirt bikes are beginner bikes.

 

[Penguinsfan82]

I met a new rider on a Honda Rebel 500 yesterday. It didn’t strike me as a beginner bike at all. 150 and 250 dirt bikes are beginner bikes.

"Beginner bike" is a subjective term. In the US, we do not have the same graduated licensing as many other countries do. As such, we are each free to choose any beginner bike we want to crash

My first bike was a 2006 Honda 1300 VTX...big, heavy, loud and well broken in. I didn't pay a whole lot for it and (at the time) I was 6'3" and 340 pounds. I needed a big machine to pull me around. I do not feel like it was a mistake to start off with that bike, price was right, condition was excellent, power was more than sufficient. I have never dropped it nor put a scratch on it and it still sits in the garage available for the occasional ride when the NC needs a break. Since then, I have lost almost 150 pounds and, if I were buying that first bike today, likely I would go for something in the 800-900 cc range. To each his own is my point. There is no "one size fits all" when it comes to motorcycles.

 

[dduelin]

Cruisers aren't a bad choice for a rider that does buy a 800-1300cc machine to start out on. They are heavy but low center of gravity, low seat height, and relatively low powered, easy to ride and don't encourage spirited riding. They wouldn't be my choice or suggestion but plenty of riders choose them.