Push starting an NC

[Triumph 'n Shadow]

Can you push start an NC?

Our new battery is completely dead and a small portable jump starter would not bring the dash to life.

So we tried push starting it to get it to the Honda Dealer.

Out of 5 tries on a small hill twice the dash lit for a second or two.

But I ran out of hill.

The dealer came and picked up the bike yesterday.

The tech said you cannot push start an NC because the computer needs power to assist in starting.

The owner thought you could push start one.

Has anyone ever tried it?

Did it work?

Was the Tech right or was the owner right?

God bless!!

Michael

 

[670cc]

With a fuel injected engine, the fuel pump, EFI, and ignition system would need sufficient power to run the engine. Push starting just takes the place of a weak starter, but with zero battery power, the other systems probably would not have the ability to run the engine. I think the biggest issue is not having a fuel pump to pressurize the fuel injection system.

So the answer is, a manual transmission NC could be push started with a weak battery, but not with a dead battery.

 

[GunNut37086]

I left my key on once and had to push start mine. It only worked because it was low, not dead.

I agree with 670cc. Without juice to power the fuel pump, the engine won't get any fuel. Without any fuel the bike cannot be push started.

 

[Triumph 'n Shadow]

It was completely dead!
The battery was bought 3-30-2016.
The dealer stated they would put it on a charger over night.
If still dead the next day I get a new one for free (or like this battery - at no charge!).
I had it on a charger myself.
Still only read 5.38 with the voltmeter.
I told my wife I am a little nervous to ride this bike now.
I love taking the NC up in the mountains all Summer long.
The thought of this happening up there is a little scary.
But I do realize it could happen to any bike.
The week before I was out on the bike three straight days and put close to 100 miles on it.
The weather was okay.
Was not like it was out in sub zero temps and this happened.
Thanks guys for letting me know about the push starting ability.
This way I know not to waste time if the battery is totally dead.

God bless!!

Michael

 

[SergeantChuck]

So the answer is, a manual transmission NC could be push started with a weak battery, but not with a dead battery.

I can validate this statement. A year or so ago my battery died. I've had lots of practice push starting bikes over the years so its not new to me. The NCs battery was completely dead. I was lucky enough to be on a hill so I was able to get the bike rolling pretty fast but just could not get the bike to turn over. I tried for a good 30 minutes and finally quit because I was exhausted from pushing the 400 lb bike.

 

[DirtFlier]

Things are a lot different from the 70s and 80s when computer control was non-existent so you shouldn't assume you can push start any modern bike.

 

[davidc83]

It was completely dead!
The battery was bought 3-30-2016.
The dealer stated they would put it on a charger over night.
If still dead the next day I get a new one for free (or like this battery - at no charge!).
I had it on a charger myself.
Still only read 5.38 with the voltmeter.
I told my wife I am a little nervous to ride this bike now.
I love taking the NC up in the mountains all Summer long.
The thought of this happening up there is a little scary.
But I do realize it could happen to any bike.
The week before I was out on the bike three straight days and put close to 100 miles on it.
The weather was okay.
Was not like it was out in sub zero temps and this happened.
Thanks guys for letting me know about the push starting ability.
This way I know not to waste time if the battery is totally dead.

God bless!!

Michael

Bad battery. It happens; anything created by humans can go belly up at any time, and with today's batteries, they can be good one day and dead the next. You bought a new battery from the dealer, but how long did it sit on the shelf before you bought it (no one but the dealer would know and not going to say). Battery could have had a manufacturing defect; if you have any electronics connected to the bike, ensure they are all off when you are done riding. If you are riding city or slow country roads, ensure you occasionally ride over 35-40mph-the stators only put out enough juice to maintain the battery at those speeds-extra juice to charge a battery isn't created until you get above those speeds.

 

[Old Can Ride]

Purchase a start power supply. They are small and fit in your pocket. Will start with dead battery. Fuel injection stopped push starting.

 

[Triumph 'n Shadow]

We do have a Pocket Power Plus portable power system.
About 8 inches long by 4 inches wide by one inch thick.
I have used this little thing to start my riding lawn mower, my Ford F150 several times, and even my 1992 Honda Shadow 1100.
But when I clipped it to the NC there was still no power to the dash and the bike would not even try to turn over.
This is why I originally thought it may be a main fuse.
But when the battery was tested with my voltmeter it only blew 5.38 volts.
The Honda shop owner was also concerned about that number.
But, to those that do not have one, the Pocket Power Plus is an amazing little gadget.
Ultra expensive.
But my parents got it for us as a gift and it has been worth its weight in gold.

Honestly, I was hoping it was a main fuse.
That is something easy to fix out on the road.
Cannot imagine if that would have happened up on one of the mountain roads I like to spend my Summers on.

God bless and safe riding!!

Michael

 

[dduelin]

A battery showing only 5.38 volts and no power to the bike when connected to a known good 12v source are two separate issues.

 

[670cc]

Honestly, I was hoping it was a main fuse.
That is something easy to fix out on the road.
Cannot imagine if that would have happened up on one of the mountain roads I like to spend my Summers on.

Michael

I would hope it was a failed battery rather than a blown main fuse. Replacing a bad battery might be a simpler task than troubleshooting the bike's electrics to determine why the fuse blew and making certain it wouldn't happen again.

Of course, you may still have an underlying problem to address. The reason for the battery falling to 5.38 volts needs to be determined. Was that the static voltage or the voltage under load?

 

[anglachel]

A battery showing only 5.38 volts and no power to the bike when connected to a known good 12v source are two separate issues.

separate issues could have the same root cause... and when two issues show up at the same time it's hard to dismiss, a short could cause the battery to drain, and a short could keep the bike from powering up with a known good 12v power supply. Could be a short in the battery itself, or in the bikes electrical system.

Disconnecting the batter terminals and hooking the bike directly up to a known good 12v source would help tell if it's the battery or the bike, might not be able to start the bike, from that power source, but the dash should at least come on at that point.

 

[dduelin]

separate issues could have the same root cause... and when two issues show up at the same time it's hard to dismiss, a short could cause the battery to drain, and a short could keep the bike from powering up with a known good 12v power supply. Could be a short in the battery itself, or in the bikes electrical system.

Disconnecting the batter terminals and hooking the bike directly up to a known good 12v source would help tell if it's the battery or the bike, might not be able to start the bike, from that power source, but the dash should at least come on at that point.

This is the internet after all....

 

[showkey]

separate issues could have the same root cause... and when two issues show up at the same time it's hard to dismiss, a short could cause the battery to drain, and a short could keep the bike from powering up with a known good 12v power supply. Could be a short in the battery itself, or in the bikes electrical system.

Disconnecting the batter terminals and hooking the bike directly up to a known good 12v source would help tell if it's the battery or the bike, might not be able to start the bike, from that power source, but the dash should at least come on at that point.

There is a another thread on the same bike with all sorts of speculation on the cause of the dead battery or no start no crank condition.
The two threads could be combined and hopefully we will know shortly if the bike or the battery or some combo is the root cause.

http://nc700-forum.com/forum/nc700-technical/12385-2013-nc700x-totally-dead-6.html

 

[Deleted member 5383]

Surely all of our bikes suffer from not having the same power source as Iron Man, so more speculation is probably worthwhile ; }

 

[Agent]

Things are a lot different from the 70s and 80s when computer control was non-existent so you shouldn't assume you can push start any modern bike.

Fun fact of the day: My 1979 Yamaha could not be push started with a dead battery. The alternator is some kind of electromagnet that has to have power before it will make power. That led to a booming aftermarket alternator industry that used permanent magnets. Sorry that this has nothing to do with the NC. I just thought it was interesting.

 

[Triumph 'n Shadow]

So I called and talked to the Honda dealership yesterday.
They said they put the battery on a charger and it fully charged and held the charge.
They said they waited another day and checked it again and it is still fully charged.
They took the bike Saturday, put it on the charger, were off Sunday and Monday, checked it Tuesday and again on Wednesday.
All good.
If that was with it out of the bike I will ask they put it in the bike and let it set for a day or so.
Something may be running it down.
I will let you know what I hear.

God bless and ride safe!!

Michael

 

[dduelin]

Make sure the connections on the battery are clean and tight and always check the voltage on the battery terminals, not from the wire connection or fitting connected to the terminal. A loose connection at the battery could have lead to a reading of 5 volts and then prevented the fully charged jump battery from powering up the bike.

 

[670cc]

A loose connection at the battery could have lead to a reading of 5 volts and then prevented the fully charged jump battery from powering up the bike.

It's good policy to ensure the battery connections are clean and tight. A bad connection at the battery would have prevented the engine from starting. But I thought about the reading of ~5 volts being obtained from a loose connection and I don't think that's very likely. If the bike were switched on and there was current draw, then yes, a resistive connection would result in a lower reading at the wire vs the terminal. But, with the bike off and no current draw, it would probably read 12 volts on the wire even if the connection to the battery terminal was fairly resistive. The reason being that there would be little or no voltage drop across the resistive connection when there is only the minuscule current flow going through the meter to ground.

I have my concerns about the dealer's "testing" the battery after the the charge was done, and finding it is still fully charged after a day or two. Without them having done a load test, or even measuring open circuit voltage after rest and comparing to norms, I would be skeptical of the battery condition and capacity. A battery that had fallen to 5.38 volts is damaged.

 

[dduelin]

It's good policy to ensure the battery connections are clean and tight. But I thought about the reading of 5 volts being obtained from a loose connection and I don't think that's very likely. If the bike were switched on and there was current draw, then yes, a resistive connection would result in a lower reading at the wire vs the terminal. But, with the bike off and no current draw, it would probably read 12 volts on the wire even if the connection to th battery terminal was fairly resistive. The reason being that there would be little or no voltage drop across the connection when there is only the minuscule current flow going through the meter to ground.

I think either the voltage reading of 5.38 was not accurate and/or the jump box was not connected properly. Any short or parasitic draw large enough to prevent a known good 12v source from powering up the bike is bad news and highly unlikely given the OP description of riding the bike just fine several days prior.

It's usually the simple things. I sold batteries for 10 years and heard every reason why the dead battery in the customer's hands needed warranty replacement. In the majority of cases the battery tests out good and takes a charge. There are few bad ones of course but the reason shops and retailers test batteries to rule this out is the majority of bad batteries are connection or customer use related. It's just true.