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RaceTech Gold Valve Emulators and Springs...

Would definitely drill 4 holes. 2 passes with a drill. You don't want any restrictions in the flow of oil so the emulator is actually controlling compression dampening. Esp since your complaint is about being beaten up.


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I think there might be confusion on which holes we're talking about. On the damper piston, pipe, whatever they call it these days that goes in the bottom of the fork, that thing needs lots of massive holes to make it as unrestrictive as possible. I think the instructions call for six 5/16" holes in each deburred etc... no problem there.

What I'm referring to is little holes in the penny sized brass disc that is the sprung part of the valve. There's two drilled out and two more that could.

I think by what I've read so far and what 670cc had said, a touring setup is good for this bike. So four holes in this part and 2 turns on the blue spring would give the plushest ride. I might start with the blue valve spring per RT's touring setup recommendation.
 
I think there might be confusion on which holes we're talking about. On the damper piston, pipe, whatever they call it these days that goes in the bottom of the fork, that thing needs lots of massive holes to make it as unrestrictive as possible. I think the instructions call for six 5/16" holes in each deburred etc... no problem there.

What I'm referring to is little holes in the penny sized brass disc that is the sprung part of the valve. There's two drilled out and two more that could.

I think by what I've read so far and what 670cc had said, a touring setup is good for this bike. So four holes in this part and 2 turns on the blue spring would give the plushest ride. I might start with the blue valve spring per RT's touring setup recommendation.

Spot on Supertex IMHO and if you are about my weight (180lbs plus rider gear) then 1.5 or 1 turn of preload on the emulators might be slightly better. Mine are still set on 2 turns but it thumps a bit on fast bumps.
Mike
Mike
 
I think there might be confusion on which holes we're talking about. On the damper piston, pipe, whatever they call it these days that goes in the bottom of the fork, that thing needs lots of massive holes to make it as unrestrictive as possible. I think the instructions call for six 5/16" holes in each deburred etc... no problem there.

What I'm referring to is little holes in the penny sized brass disc that is the sprung part of the valve. There's two drilled out and two more that could.

I think by what I've read so far and what 670cc had said, a touring setup is good for this bike. So four holes in this part and 2 turns on the blue spring would give the plushest ride. I might start with the blue valve spring per RT's touring setup recommendation.

Yep. Drill out the dimples and you'll have your 4 holes.

IMG_0094.jpg
 
Finally I spent a lot of time researching what the 'travel' is on the front forks and to cut a long story short I believe the theoretical travel measured along the fork on the 2016 bike is in fact 150mm (The 137mm quoted in my service manual is I believe the amount of vertical travel available to the front axle).
Mike

This article Honda NC700X - OVERLAND magazine says that the front fork travel is 153.5mm (that's very precise for a guess, I bet they measured it.)

The Honda number is in fact the vertical travel of the axle.

If you do triangle math with known angles of 90 degrees, and 27 degrees rake and 153.5mm length of one side, you will discover the other side is 137mm. (or vice versa.)

So there's that mystery solved. I think it still makes sense to use the 137mm when calculating sag, but to be truly accurate we can't assume the forks are vertical.

I think it has to be done from the axle on up to some plane of reference extending from the front of the bike.

This is how sag is calculated on the rear shock. Another option is to measure along the fork tube with the zip tie method and use triangle math again to arrive at a vertical displacement. (It will be slightly less...)

0188afb7fb884169999d54fc232e4bf8.jpg
 
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This article Honda NC700X - OVERLAND magazine says that the front fork travel is 153.5mm (that's very precise for a guess, I bet they measured it.)

The Honda number is in fact the vertical travel of the axle.

If you do triangle math with known angles of 90 degrees, and 27 degrees rake and 153.5mm length of one side, you will discover the other side is 137mm. (or vice versa.)

So there's that mystery solved. I think it still makes sense to use the 137mm when calculating sag, but to be truly accurate we can't assume the forks are vertical.

I think it has to be done from the axle on up to some plane of reference extending from the front of the bike.

This is how sag is calculated on the rear shock. Another option is to measure along the fork tube with the zip tie method and use triangle math again to arrive at a vertical displacement. (It will be slightly less...)

0188afb7fb884169999d54fc232e4bf8.jpg

Yes Supertux that's the same maths I used to come to my conclusion. It's still ok to use 50mm sag measured along the fork tube though because that equates to 45-ish mm vertical travel which is of course still 1/3 of the 137mm
BTW I also came to the conclusion that at the rear it may not be truly vertical measurement, but instead is along the arc of the swing of the swingarm. I don't think it makes much difference but I found a neat way to make these rear sag measurements using my iphone so that I could do it when on my own.
First go out and buy a 1metre steel ruler. Hold the hole of that ruler over the centre of the swing arm pivot bolt and measure the distance to the rear axle bolt centre (on the levt side of the bike as you sit on it). Now keeping the hole of the ruler centred on the swing arm bolt rotate the ruler upwards until that same distance on the ruler meets some part of the bike's plastic. I put a bit of fluorescent tape at that point. It's surprisingly far from being vertically above the axle (maybe 200mm).
Now when I want to do sag measurements I gaffa tape the rounded end of the ruler to that mark on the plastic and rest the other end (edge) on the round washer/nut of the axle. My iphone is on a mini tripod (it used to be balanced on a plastic box until it fell off and smashed the screen), and I was using the 10 second delayed shutter to take a picture when I get on the bike.
Mike
30182303522_e89673cdfd_c.jpg

32880050532_e4b27f4578_z.jpg
 
I think there might be confusion on which holes we're talking about. On the damper piston, pipe, whatever they call it these days that goes in the bottom of the fork, that thing needs lots of massive holes to make it as unrestrictive as possible. I think the instructions call for six 5/16" holes in each deburred etc... no problem there.

What I'm referring to is little holes in the penny sized brass disc that is the sprung part of the valve. There's two drilled out and two more that could.

I think by what I've read so far and what 670cc had said, a touring setup is good for this bike. So four holes in this part and 2 turns on the blue spring would give the plushest ride. I might start with the blue valve spring per RT's touring setup recommendation.

I run a "soft" set up and I left the 2 holes in the valve itself and ran the lightest spring it came with, backed out the 2 turns it recommended (or whatever, I forget that part). The weight oil is really only for rebound control... heavier slower, thinner faster. That 10wt will be good for you.
 
I'd use total available fork travel and sag along the fork tube, not vertical axle movement. That's what Race Tech says to do, too. The other way will work just as well since it's just a percentage, but it isn't as easy to measure.
 
I'd use total available fork travel and sag along the fork tube, not vertical axle movement. That's what Race Tech says to do, too. The other way will work just as well since it's just a percentage, but it isn't as easy to measure.

One reason to use the vertical movement might be so that you keep the front and rear somewhat balanced. You wouldn't generally want to be compressing the front or rear more than the other in a turn even before adding throttle or brake, I'd think.
 
I'm finally getting around to this.

Pulled the forks and took the springs out. Letting it drain overnight.

Here is a comparison of the RaceTech .90 kg/mm spring against the stock:

bfefbb86b0161177d165d4597a594ddd.jpg


The new spring is much shorter. Ok, since I'll be using the extra height of the valve and the adjustable fork caps of a CB1100. :) You can see just how stiff the progressive rate spring gets near the end by comparing the coils.

When I took the fork caps off, the spacer on top of the spring came to the top of the chrome fork tube, so all of the preload is done by the fork cap itself, about 15mm of threads I would say. This probably compresses the bottom soft rate coils quite a bit. The cap didn't launch off and kind of meekly sat there on top of everything.

d31645c65506926bdd40613d24a0541d.jpg



Measurements:

Stock Spring: 396mm
Stock Washer: 1.5mm
Stock Spacer: 150mm
Total: 547.5mm
Stock Fork Cap: 17.5mm (Preload)

RT Gold Valve: 12mm
RT Spring: 342mm
Washer: 1.5mm
Cut Spacer: 190.5mm
Washer: 1.5mm
Total: 547.5mm

Cheap Chinese Adj Fork Cap: 26.5mm (Min. Preload)
Reduce 190.5mm Cut Spacer By: 9mm = 181.5
This one has about 16mm of travel so I could install it half way (subtract another 8) = 173.5 and go up or down from there once on the bike.

I have also ordered the CB1100 one and will measure that and decide between it and cheap Chinese eBay black Fork Cap. :)


Honda CB1100 Adj Fork Cap: ??? mm (in the mail)
Reduce 190.5 mm Cut Spacer By: ??mm ...


As far as valve settings go, I am going to try blue springs, two turns in from free length to start, which is 27.2mm installed. 2 holes in the valve and 15wt oil. The holes in the stock damper rod are 4.5mm in diameter, and 10wt oil is crammed through there. In the RT valve the holes are 3mm and 15wt oil is crammed through there, leading me to believe that low speed damping will be more cushy on the stock setup, probably why 4 valve holes (12mm total) feels better for most. I may do that but want to try a light spring setting with 2 holes before I drill...
 
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It was such a nice day to ride so the devil took me and I decided to use the eBay fork caps.

Measured fork travel off the bike is 143mm.
This is me pushing and pulling on the tube with no oil or spring. Bottom out to top out.

I guessed at the spacer length after putting everything together dry fit, I used 180mm with the adjustable cap all the way out. Here are the sag numbers at that setting, which I can make up to 15mm less by screwing in the adjusters on the caps:

Bike Sag (no rider) = 38mm = %26
Rider Sag (185 lbs) = 47mm = %32

I took it for a ride over some potholes and small bumps (driveway / sidewalk transitions) and did some hard front braking, maximum recorded travel was about 115mm or %80.

Normal riding it doesn't feel much different than stock, but there is a definite improvement in handling and less jarring over road imperfections.

My original sag number was somewhere high sixties, now the front is 20mm higher and handles better. Will have to try highway speeds some other time.

I think these things are worth it but need to be coupled with the correct spring and preload to get the full effect. I'm going to leave them as is for a few thousand miles.

7803ff6bca8de4f110b30dbdb6d869ee.jpg


Here is a wood jig I made to drill the damper rods:

2ac8401dbc692806e7d4ed2c408dd806.jpg
 
I got to ride it more for a few hours today in more varied conditions, in the rain no less. My tires were about 2-3 psi over inflated. (It's still cold here.)

First I did my commute to work, where I know every bump, man hole cover, pothole and crappy section of road.

I will say that the new fork configuration is 'stiffer' than stock when it comes to very small bumps and low velocity fork movements. It is not plush over small (less than 1 inch) irregularities and bumps - eg that right tire track where the road starts to crack and crumble.
I decided to go with 15wt oil and two holes in the valve, so that is to be expected. I do not mind it and like the way it handles in turns. Very similar to stock at 'low' speed (speed of fork movement, not the bike, all this was done at 25-30mph.)

The first time I tried emergency braking on the bike with the stock forks last year, they collapsed almost all the way to that really stiff section at the top, then on the rebound almost launched me off the bike.
None of that with the new setup, there was less dive and rebound was more controlled. Stopping quicker and shorter too. (To be fair, I did just service the brakes.)

Potholes: I purposely aimed the bike towards some potholes (25-30 mph), deep enough so that the gravel under the asphalt was exposed. The bike seemed to almost float over these, a definite up and down sensation, but no jarring.

Speed Bumps: On my way to work, when transitioning from regular road to highway, there is this section where it goes from asphalt to concrete and that seam is at least 3 inches high very sharp bump.
It doesn't help that this is the part of the ramp where you're supposed to be accelerating from 25mph to 55mph. I hit it at about 40mph, on my toes expecting the usual jolt up through the bars to my shoulders and much to my surprise there was no 'ouch' moment. The bars went up and down but no jarring.

Heaved Road: There's some sections of road here that are wavy and I did notice a lot of up and down movement, but that was more pronounced at the rear and probably the rear shock. (Still stock, talking to the folks at Nitron for options here...)

The rest of the day was pretty mellow street cruising and speeds up to 65mph on normal good condition highway (wet too) and no weird handling or cornering issues.
 
I got to ride it more for a few hours today in more varied conditions, in the rain no less. My tires were about 2-3 psi over inflated. (It's still cold here.)

First I did my commute to work, where I know every bump, man hole cover, pothole and crappy section of road.

I will say that the new fork configuration is 'stiffer' than stock when it comes to very small bumps and low velocity fork movements. It is not plush over small (less than 1 inch) irregularities and bumps - eg that right tire track where the road starts to crack and crumble.
I decided to go with 15wt oil and two holes in the valve, so that is to be expected. I do not mind it and like the way it handles in turns. Very similar to stock at 'low' speed (speed of fork movement, not the bike, all this was done at 25-30mph.)

The first time I tried emergency braking on the bike with the stock forks last year, they collapsed almost all the way to that really stiff section at the top, then on the rebound almost launched me off the bike.
None of that with the new setup, there was less dive and rebound was more controlled. Stopping quicker and shorter too. (To be fair, I did just service the brakes.)

Potholes: I purposely aimed the bike towards some potholes (25-30 mph), deep enough so that the gravel under the asphalt was exposed. The bike seemed to almost float over these, a definite up and down sensation, but no jarring.

Speed Bumps: On my way to work, when transitioning from regular road to highway, there is this section where it goes from asphalt to concrete and that seam is at least 3 inches high very sharp bump.
It doesn't help that this is the part of the ramp where you're supposed to be accelerating from 25mph to 55mph. I hit it at about 40mph, on my toes expecting the usual jolt up through the bars to my shoulders and much to my surprise there was no 'ouch' moment. The bars went up and down but no jarring.

Heaved Road: There's some sections of road here that are wavy and I did notice a lot of up and down movement, but that was more pronounced at the rear and probably the rear shock. (Still stock, talking to the folks at Nitron for options here...)

The rest of the day was pretty mellow street cruising and speeds up to 65mph on normal good condition highway (wet too) and no weird handling or cornering issues.
A very thorough and well written account of what your suspension mods have done for you. Sense it also makes a difference, what do you weigh?
 
I'm a dual sport guy and with the current set-up the springs are so stiff It threw me off the bike over a woop section. According to racetech the stock spring is rated at (.63) The lowest spring racetech sales for our bike is (.80). Now after reading this post I thing the "progressive" part is what is killing me. I want as soft as possible. I weigh 175 and rarely carry any gear. Since I am using the fork extenders I cannot use the aftermarket adjustable valves.
If I order the (.80) springs do you think this would cure my "pogo stick" problem? Can/Should I drill out any of the stock suspension?
 
I'm a dual sport guy and with the current set-up the springs are so stiff It threw me off the bike over a woop section. According to racetech the stock spring is rated at (.63) The lowest spring racetech sales for our bike is (.80). Now after reading this post I thing the "progressive" part is what is killing me. I want as soft as possible. I weigh 175 and rarely carry any gear. Since I am using the fork extenders I cannot use the aftermarket adjustable valves.
If I order the (.80) springs do you think this would cure my "pogo stick" problem? Can/Should I drill out any of the stock suspension?

The stock spring is probably .63 in that soft section at the bottom which collapses to almost solid coil on coil mass when you sit on the bike.

What's left is that widely spaced super stiff part at the top and with the dampener single rate of flow you get a very harsh ride over large bumps if you are a heavy person.

The first step in fixing all that is to get a spring that allows the appropriate amount of sag for your riding style and weight. Nothing else matters if the sag is all wrong. After that, you can play with dampening by changing oil weight, adjusting the valve, etc...

I believe the RaceTech numbers are for street performance not dirt, as is the NC700 itself. Their main business revolves around faster lap times. So you might want to go with a lighter spring, less valve preload, silver valve spring, lighter oil etc... Beware that will make it softer at the same time more pogo stick like and the front end will collapse more and be less planted in turns. You can't have it both ways.

You should be able to use the valves with fork extenders, you'll just have to figure out the spacer length on your own. I did mine so that they come to the top of the chrome tube like the stock one does. All the preload comes from the fork cap itself.
 
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I'm a dual sport guy and with the current set-up the springs are so stiff It threw me off the bike over a woop section. According to racetech the stock spring is rated at (.63) The lowest spring racetech sales for our bike is (.80). Now after reading this post I thing the "progressive" part is what is killing me. I want as soft as possible. I weigh 175 and rarely carry any gear. Since I am using the fork extenders I cannot use the aftermarket adjustable valves.
If I order the (.80) springs do you think this would cure my "pogo stick" problem? Can/Should I drill out any of the stock suspension?

1) You should drill out the damping rods per the RaceTech emulator directions. Without doing that, you're really not getting the most out of the RaceTech emulator or it's valve stack compression damping.

2) Run linear springs (from RaceTech or anyone else) in the weight they recommend. I am 190lbs and it recommended I think a .93 spring. My front end is "not stiff."

3) This is very important and can be easily messed up: When you install the RaceTech emulator, place it on the bottom of the spring first, then slide the entire spring and valve into the fork (with it laying horizontally) until it reaches the bottom. If you just "drop it in," the emulator can tilt to one side or the other and when you put the spring in, it won't seat properly. What that means in the real world is you will find your fork is extremely stiff (because you have essentially added 2" of spring length). I know it sounds unlikely since the emulator is so perfectly the size of the fork tube, but trust me - from experience - it can and does happen, and when it does, you have a fork that is so damn stiff it's miserable to ride.
 
1) You should drill out the damping rods per the RaceTech emulator directions. Without doing that, you're really not getting the most out of the RaceTech emulator or it's valve stack compression damping.

2) Run linear springs (from RaceTech or anyone else) in the weight they recommend. I am 190lbs and it recommended I think a .93 spring. My front end is "not stiff."

3) This is very important and can be easily messed up: When you install the RaceTech emulator, place it on the bottom of the spring first, then slide the entire spring and valve into the fork (with it laying horizontally) until it reaches the bottom. If you just "drop it in," the emulator can tilt to one side or the other and when you put the spring in, it won't seat properly. What that means in the real world is you will find your fork is extremely stiff (because you have essentially added 2" of spring length). I know it sounds unlikely since the emulator is so perfectly the size of the fork tube, but trust me - from experience - it can and does happen, and when it does, you have a fork that is so damn stiff it's miserable to ride.

2) Use the calculator here:

RT - Digital Product Search

3) A good point! I dry fit everything together and made a note of where the spacer ended in relation to the top of the tube.

I used a long parts grabber claw to install the valve and pushed it so it would seat with no play.

After I figured out that, I removed the valve, spring and spacers and filled the tube with a bit of oil, just enough to cover the damper rod and pumped it to get the air out.

I reseated the valve with the parts grabber, collapsed the fork tube and filled to the recommended oil level.

Put the spring and spacer back and verified they were at the same location when dry fit.
 
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