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Rear brakes weak

Hi SuperMek,
Pirelli brings the Scorpion Trails in the X wheel size. Give them a try. The new Kaw versys 1000 are shod with them, as well as the Tigers.
Enjoy!
 
Hi SuperMek,
Pirelli brings the Scorpion Trails in the X wheel size. Give them a try. The new Kaw versys 1000 are shod with them, as well as the Tigers.
Enjoy!

Nah, I drive faster on gravel/dirt roads with the X in the forest than I can do on pavement/asphalt roads! The X just performs beautifully! The only drawback is muddy trails with waterfilled pitholes where the X will slide around in a bad way as proper tires are not available for the wheel dimensions the X uses...

Hi Christian, wow, that is wonderful information.
I did not have the balls to try it out with the "road" tires.
And thanks to the info about the Scorpian tires, you may just have to swop them when the first set are finished.
:D
Great fun!
 
Just got my bike Tuesday and noticed the same thing. Rode back to the dealer and he said this was normal, had a second ride this afternoon and the rear is better. Just use to the HD's being able to lock the rear wheel, not always a good thing.
 
My rear brake (non-ABS) is very weak as well. I don't know but maybe Honda doesn't trust us with a strong one. Instead of anti-lock, we got anti-stop. I plan to look at it from an hydraulic engineering point of view to try to determine why it is weak. It has a 14mm master cylinder and a 38mm wheel cylinder. The manual doesn't show any hydraulic controls that should interfere (such as the proportioning valve that is in the ABS model).
 
i got my 700s up to 80kmh and stomped on the rear brake and to my amazement, it pulled up nicely. You could feel the front working too!!! Sweet:cool: Love ABS!!!!
 
NP on my standard bike too...sounds impossible..as this bike is fitted at factory...and comes in special crate with the bike intact except for the mirrors
and some part of the handle if i can remember correctly. So coming from a Japanese factory, the final inspection should't miss out problematic brakes...
funny...
Check with the dealer is the option i will most probably take..

Cheers
Mark
 
BTW, this NCX is not a trailee or a dirt bike. It is just styled that way.
I hope you are not trying to go on dirt, and slide the rear out like a motorcrosser?
:eek:

This type of Honda is meant for the road. The X, just IMPLIES it can go a little offroad...i mean unpaved roads....slowly.

Meant for, schmeant for. It is the rider that makes a bike a dirt bike. Some are only more or less fitted for the task...

Harley-Davidson-WLA-jump.jpg

My BMW made Prudhoe Bay and Inuvik on street tires (1,600 miles of unpaved roads - not slowly)...

deadhorse.jpg

I slide the rear out on my 700x every day. The last mile of the road I live on is dirt as is my driveway which is 0.75 miles long. I have a downhill right turn after a long straightaway (brake slide) followed by an uphill left turn (power slide) and then a level left-right-left slolam course (flat-track) then another downhill right turn (power this one). Scooter, BMW, NC, doesn't matter. It is good practice as lots of emergencies involve lack of traction (thus the ABS and traction control "solutions"). The rear brake is not even strong enough for proper dirt use. I suspect Honda is trying to limit the natural selection process that used to take care of unskilled riders multiplying.
 
Meant for, schmeant for. It is the rider that makes a bike a dirt bike. Some are only more or less fitted for the task...



My BMW made Prudhoe Bay and Inuvik on street tires (1,600 miles of unpaved roads - not slowly)...



I slide the rear out on my 700x every day. The last mile of the road I live on is dirt as is my driveway which is 0.75 miles long. I have a downhill right turn after a long straightaway (brake slide) followed by an uphill left turn (power slide) and then a level left-right-left slolam course (flat-track) then another downhill right turn (power this one). Scooter, BMW, NC, doesn't matter. It is good practice as lots of emergencies involve lack of traction (thus the ABS and traction control "solutions"). The rear brake is not even strong enough for proper dirt use. I suspect Honda is trying to limit the natural selection process that used to take care of unskilled riders multiplying.

I like to add, it is the DIRT on any way you ride on (roads or trails or just some line along a forest) which makes a dirt bike a dirt bike.
:p
 
paraphrasing a post I made in another thread

After fooling around with the brake for a while I now a opinion about our "weak" rear brake. I think there is something wrong with the caliper that puts the pads at a pretty strong angle to the rotor. This causes the caliper to bind on the guide pins when the brake is used, without much braking force generated. The "cure" is the same as what you found to help. Using the brakes hard starts to wear the pads in with a taper. Eventually, you end up with a condition in which a lot less binding is generated and more braking occurs. Still not right but almost usable.

This is NOT an engineered "feature". Nobody would design a brake that binds on the guide pins when applied.

Look from the rear - does the pin that holds the pads in look like it has an angle to the caliper? Mine does. Depress the pedal, does the caliper seem to have an angle to the rotor? Mine does. Finally, does your caliper slip back and forth easily on the guide pins when the pedal is not depressed? Mine does not, or hardly at all. If you take the pads out is one worn on the radial "inside" and one on the radial "outside"? if so the pads are being pushed into the rotor at an angle.

I think Honda has put a lot of defective rear brakes out in the world on this model. I can see where a dealer might not know about them yet. But to say "you just have to get used to it" is just hoping a potential problem goes away. My local dealer is as flaky as they come, and I didn't buy my bike there, I've little hope of getting any satisfaction from him.

I think we should follow up on this - Honda will issue a recall if the problem is a defective caliper. How one goes about this I don't know.

caliper 1.jpg

Here is a picture of my set up. The out of square angle of the retaining pin is about 2.5 degrees. I don't know at this point if it is the brake stay or the caliper that is causing this.
 
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Just to throw in, my 750X DCT (ABS but NOT linked) rear brake works just fine, as much as I'd expect from a rear brake.
 
no, have the std version

I have the STD too, and I had the same experience with the back brake.
Having put 24K miles on my NC, I have to say that the rear brake is better now than it was.
You still can't "lock it up", but it feels more "grabby" than it did at first. I keep asking my mechanic to replace the brake pads, but he tells me that they just aren't worn down enough yet. Apparently using EBC (?) pads makes improvement.
 
paraphrasing a post I made in another thread

After fooling around with the brake for a while I now a opinion about our "weak" rear brake. I think there is something wrong with the caliper that puts the pads at a pretty strong angle to the rotor. This causes the caliper to bind on the guide pins when the brake is used, without much braking force generated. The "cure" is the same as what you found to help. Using the brakes hard starts to wear the pads in with a taper. Eventually, you end up with a condition in which a lot less binding is generated and more braking occurs. Still not right but almost usable.

This is NOT an engineered "feature". Nobody would design a brake that binds on the guide pins when applied.

Look from the rear - does the pin that holds the pads in look like it has an angle to the caliper? Mine does. Depress the pedal, does the caliper seem to have an angle to the rotor? Mine does. Finally, does your caliper slip back and forth easily on the guide pins when the pedal is not depressed? Mine does not, or hardly at all. If you take the pads out is one worn on the radial "inside" and one on the radial "outside"? if so the pads are being pushed into the rotor at an angle.

I think Honda has put a lot of defective rear brakes out in the world on this model. I can see where a dealer might not know about them yet. But to say "you just have to get used to it" is just hoping a potential problem goes away. My local dealer is as flaky as they come, and I didn't buy my bike there, I've little hope of getting any satisfaction from him.

I think we should follow up on this - Honda will issue a recall if the problem is a defective caliper. How one goes about this I don't know.

View attachment 11252

Here is a picture of my set up. The out of square angle of the retaining pin is about 2.5 degrees. I don't know at this point if it is the brake stay or the caliper that is causing this.
I really think you are on to something with this explanation. My 700X had virtually no back brake but at about 8000 miles it began to work and by the time I sold it a couple of weeks ago it was fine. The problem is that when the next owner replaces the pads he will have no effective braking for several thousand miles. Fortunately my new 750X seems to have a decent back brake from the off,but I will go and check the pin angle now.
Mike
 
OK, I've been out in the shop going through this brake. First, I've no doubt there are properly made and operating NC700X brakes out there. They all should be properly operating. If you think your brake is good, I believe you, be happy. However, there is a subset of owners that report having a really weak rear brake. The symptoms and behavior are basically the same - an almost non-existent brake action that gradually improves with use. This exactly describes mine. I know now that my caliper is defective, and I suspect there are many other defective calipers out there.

Here is the result of my investigation. I inspected the brake stay first, it's perfect. The main 12mmX1.25 (forward) pin of the caliper when screwed in is at a very strong angle - not square at all. Looking in the hole it does not appear to be cross threaded. I inserted a very close fitting pin (drill rod) that would be guided by the thread crests. The angle is not as pronounced but it is there. At this point I will go to my dealer with these pictures and see what he says - I think he won't be interested. I can fix this myself by carefully drilling and helicoiling this hole (I have a Bridgeport mill). I don't mind the work but a helicoil Kit costs at least $50! For now I'm putting it back together and going on a ride!

caliper 1.jpg
The pic that shows the overall problem

brake stay.jpg
The brake stay is perfect. Darn, that would have been an easy fix.

main pin 1.jpg
Gee, that doesn't look right!?

main pin hole.jpg
The treads look ... OK. No obvious double thread.
pin in main pin hole.jpg
This doesn't show up well in the pic but there is an angle to this hole.
 
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[QUOTEI really think you are on to something with this explanation. My 700X had virtually no back brake but at about 8000 miles it began to work and by the time I sold it a couple of weeks ago it was fine. The problem is that when the next owner replaces the pads he will have no effective braking for several thousand miles. Fortunately my new 750X seems to have a decent back brake from the off,but I will go and check the pin angle now.
Mike ][/QUOTE]

I have never in maybe 50 bikes with a rear disc brake seen or heard of a problem like this. I would bet a lot your NC750 is correct.
 
Well, the bracket or brake stay is basically perfect. It appears the threaded hole in the caliper for the main pin was misdrilled during manufacturing. First I'm going to run this by my local dealer and see what he says. If that doesn't look promising I'll take the caliper off and re-drill and heilcoil the hole. I bet a new caliper won't cost too much but who's to say I'll get a good one.
 
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