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Revzilla review of 2021 NC750

dduelin

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My apologies for my late response. I somehow didn’t keep up with the replies on this thread.

I like the dynamics of riding a manual bike. The flow of riding one, braking, accelerating, changing gears. I know that I would become a lazy rider if I had a DCT. I would lose my riding skills. I know it to be a fact as until recently I always owned a manual car, but bought an automatic recently. I have noticed that I’ve become lazier. Having to change gear manually keeps me on my toes and more alert.

In response to your comment about being cranked over and the DCT changing gears twice at readline and not upsetting the chassis. You confirmed why I don’t want or need a DCT.

I see your photo appears to be Deals Gap, and with respect, I have to say that I wouldn’t describe you as being on the edge of your tire. Not that you are saying the photo depicts that.

I don’t know anyone who has the skills, even on a lowly 54hp NC, to be on the edge of the tire, and whack the throttle open, who wouldnt end up on their posterior. A DCT changing gears while on the edge of the tire is not in my view a good situation to be in.

I will say the NC is a nimble quick steering bike, and would be a hoot at Deals Gap with a decent set of tires and a skilled rider. I say this having ridden 3 gsxr1000s I owned there as well as my Vfr750. It wouldn’t be fast between corners, but it sure would be quick in the corners.
My perspective comes from owning both DCT and manual motorcycles and owning both manual and DCT NC700Xs long term. I can understand your thoughts on DCT as they are commonly held and heard quite often for the last 10 years. The only automatic you know is in your car so it sort of can't be helped if it figures largely in your argument. Maybe you don't know that DCT allows the flow of riding, braking, accelerating, changing gears in manual, semi-automatic, and automatic modes. Honda has been wise to offer both transmissions and not forced DCT on the market.

A rereading of my quote says nothing about whacking open the throttle on the edge of the tire. All control inputs should be smooth and never abrupt. WOT means wide open throttle and if you can't handle 54 hp (51.5 hp in my case!) on the edge of the tire you might rethink your skills.
 

Gixus

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I hate manual trans. I see a lot of justifications for not having an automatic above but none that make any sense to me. Lose you riding skills? The skill of shifting that you don't need? Keeps you on your toes? You are already on your toes with an automatic an actually more aware of what's going on around you. Automatics are a safer way to go and more convenient. You let yourself get lazy only if you want to be and it's called being complacent, not a good idea when you are riding a bike.
As I said my thoughts on a DCT applies to me. I don’t need a transmission deciding when I should change gear. If I was a commuting rider then I can see the attraction of the DCT, but I do all my riding in the country, so a DCT is no fun for me.

Let’s be frank, the majority of people who buy the nc, are older more mature riders whose aggressive let’s attack every bend days are long past. That doesn’t mean they don’t have the skills to do so, they just don’t have the overpowering urge anymore. Hence the DCT.
 

Gixus

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Wow. I guess you can’t yet imagine riding DCT with gusto into a bend, changing down two gears, cranking over, and accelerating WOT on the edge of the tire, the gearbox changing up twice at redline without upsetting the suspension, unlike a manual.

View attachment 48907
Seems like I may have misunderstood the last few lines where you refer to WOT on the edge of the tire. To me being cranked over and on the edge of the tire means just that, no tread left, dragging a knee. With my scenario a DCT changing gear at this point is not a good thing, and even it’s lowly 51 to 58 hp can cause major problems.

We could debate this for ever, but I think we have both made our points. Be safe.
 

750dct

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As I said my thoughts on a DCT applies to me. I don’t need a transmission deciding when I should change gear. If I was a commuting rider then I can see the attraction of the DCT, but I do all my riding in the country, so a DCT is no fun for me.

Let’s be frank, the majority of people who buy the nc, are older more mature riders whose aggressive let’s attack every bend days are long past. That doesn’t mean they don’t have the skills to do so, they just don’t have the overpowering urge anymore. Hence the DCT.
I guess if you like flying around sharp bends at high speed you are probably better off with a manual but otherwise I don't see your justifications you mentioned for not having an automatic. Most of the NC's sold are automatic.
 

670cc

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Seems like I may have misunderstood the last few lines where you refer to WOT on the edge of the tire. To me being cranked over and on the edge of the tire means just that, no tread left, dragging a knee. With my scenario a DCT changing gear at this point is not a good thing, and even it’s lowly 51 to 58 hp can cause major problems.

We could debate this for ever, but I think we have both made our points. Be safe.
I’m just curious; have you experienced the way a Honda DCT shifts, or are you just guessing? How many Honda DCT models did you test ride, and in what situations?

I ride a manual because I prefer it for several reasons. The DCT adds a layer of mechanical and electrical complexity to the machine to answer a need that I don’t have. Reliability is my number one concern for long distance riding. But having ridden all US market Honda DCT motorcycle models, from VFR to GL1800, some of them multiple times, I can say the 700/750 works extremely well mechanically. The shifts are very fast and smooth and do not upset the motorcycle. The GL1800 was a bit jerky at times but I had no complaint with the NC DCT version. It is a well refined machine. If you don’t yet have first hand experience with it, I suggest you reserve judgement until you do.
 

750dct

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Gixus; Admittedly I haven't ridden a DCT yet, but it seems to me that when you hit the twistys the manual paddle mode of the DCT would be smoother, safer, and easier than shifting with a manual.
 

Gixus

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I guess if you like flying around sharp bends at high speed you are probably better off with a manual but otherwise I don't see your justifications you mentioned for not having an automatic. Most of the NC's sold are automatic.
I guess it all comes down to your style of riding and preference. Commuting in traffic, DCT makes great sense to me. On the open road, not so much.
 

Gixus

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I just happened to find this on YouTube. A gtr Nissan chasing a sport bike at Deals Gap. The Nissan has a 6 speed DCT. The bike would have a manual 6 speed transmission, with possibly a quick shifter. Not that it’s needed at Deals Gap. A 1000 or 750 sport bike doesn’t need to get out of 2nd gear, not when you can do 80 plus mph in first and close to 120 mph in second.

 

the Ferret

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When riding aggressively the only difference between riding a DCT and riding a manual clutch model in the same situation is pulling in the clutch lever and moving your left foot to change gears with the manual shift vs just using your left index finger and left thumb to do the same thing with the DCT... line selection is the same, apexing is the same, throttle control is the same, braking points are the same, downshifting is the same, upshifting is the same. Of course you can let the DCT do all the shifting if you PREFER or you can do it manually without a clutch lever. The DCT is basically the same as a manual shift bike with an up and down quick shifter, only instead of using your foot to upshift and down shift , you are using your left hand to accomplish the same thing. There is no diminishing of skills when using a DCT. You use the exact same riding skills.

DCTs are not allowed in MotoGP because there is zero lag time in shifting
Per Google:

The FIA banned dual-clutch boxes because ....... there's zero lag time as gears are shifted in a dual-clutch transmission, ........

 

670cc

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I guess it all comes down to your style of riding and preference. Commuting in traffic, DCT makes great sense to me. On the open road, not so much.
Since you passed over answering my previous questions in post #85, it makes it appear that you have never ridden a Honda DCT motorcycle.
 

bigbird

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Both the driver of the Nissan and the crotch rocket should be charged with dangerous driving, speeding and for any other laws they were breaking.
Morons like that have an appropriate place to drive, and it's not on a public road.
It's called a race track.
 

dduelin

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How fast do you think those 2 idiots were driving in the video?
Having never been to Deal's Gap I have no idea how tight those turns are and the length of the short straights.
25 to 90 mph. If you have the bike you can hit 100+ in just a couple of places like Cattail or Cooper Straight. I will give the guy in the car props for staying in his lane at the speed they were doing. "Fast" car drivers I have led or followed can't stay in their lane.

The fastest riders up there aren't on supersports or liter sport bikes. Yellow Wolf is legend and he rode a GL1800 and one the fastest local riders is a member here. He had a 700X and moved to the 750X. The video doesn't really show the tightness of turns and how close they are together.
 
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the Ferret

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On the Dragon which is technically 11 miles long and contains 318 curves and turns if you count all the little wiggles, it's a game between the cops, those who can truly ride fast, those who "think" they can ride fast, those who try and stay close to the speed limit and just want the Dragon experience, those who can hardly ride at all, ordinary citizens who just want to get through there with the least amount of hassle, and sometimes a lost tractor trailer. Usually it's just a cluster feck most of the time, but if you are in the area you feel obligated to ride it for some reason. Motorcyclists make up the vast majority of crashes on the Dragon.

According to Tennessee's Integrated Traffic Analysis Network, in 2018, there were 83 traffic crashes on the Tail of the Dragon, 75% of which involved a motorcycle. Three of those motorcyclists died. The numbers for 2019 aren't much better: 93 crashes, 67% involving motorcycle drivers.
 

dduelin

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On the Dragon which is technically 11 miles long and contains 318 curves and turns if you count all the little wiggles, it's a game between the cops, those who can truly ride fast, those who "think" they can ride fast, those who try and stay close to the speed limit and just want the Dragon experience, those who can hardly ride at all, ordinary citizens who just want to get through there with the least amount of hassle, and sometimes a lost tractor trailer. Usually it's just a cluster feck most of the time, but if you are in the area you feel obligated to ride it for some reason. Motorcyclists make up the vast majority of crashes on the Dragon.

According to Tennessee's Integrated Traffic Analysis Network, in 2018, there were 83 traffic crashes on the Tail of the Dragon, 75% of which involved a motorcycle. Three of those motorcyclists died. The numbers for 2019 aren't much better: 93 crashes, 67% involving motorcycle drivers.
The key for me has always been going very early before 8 am or after 3 or 4 pm on ordinary weekdays. It's not unusual to get a run across with no traffic or at least almost no other cars or bikes. I like to do the loop of 28 to 129 to Venore to TN 360 to the Cherohala back to wherever I'm staying so that requires crossing Deals Gap. I'm of a mind that most of the crashes happen on weekends and holidays when the traffic is much busier.
 
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