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Riding attire?

One advantage of shaft drive. Was it hard to untangle the jacket?
The jacket was shredded. Luckily I had AAA and a flatbed tow came. We were able to get the Bonneville onto the flatbed, then jerry-rigged a way to yank the rear tire backwards to get the shredded jacket out from beneath the chain and the sprocket. It was the last day of a 2,000 mile ride home and I only had to go 30 more miles. I rode slow in case the chain was damaged or stretched. When I got home, my wife asked where my jacket was. I told her that it blew off the back of my bike, which was true. And that when I stopped, it was damaged and I threw it away. A very truthful answer, albeit missing some details!
 
Well, I just posted the link to testing SATRA did on leather that was _not_ ‘competition’ stuff vs various textiles including Kevlar-lined jeans. It wasn’t close in terms of what’s most abrasion resistant.

I like Motoport gear, and I wear their pants. Nevertheless, they don’t do anything, or at least they don’t _disclose_ anything, resembling controlled testing. Theirs is nearly the only textile pants I would have much confidence in where abrasion resistance vs leather is concerned.

If my budget was $250 _just_ for (new) pants, I’d put the Joe Rocket race pants I just sold up against about any textile out there for that price, and I’d win at least 9 times out of 10.
I understand your points, good quality leather has greater wear resistance than average textile. We have been in agreement on that but as I've pointed out, and I'm really not trying to argue here, we tend not to slide too much down the road. We tend to impact and roll and bounce. There are exceptions.

Where we seem to disagree is that high quality textiles rival good leather.

And I suggest that, in the real world, very few people will pay for good leather garments. Proof is in the sales volume of garments and displays at the moto shops all over the country. Lots of low quality brands, fewer middle and high quality products on display.

So most people can actually choose between better grades of textile garments vs lesser grades of leather garments.

Looking at the seam of lower priced leather garments is enough to steer me away from some brands. Seam and fastener failure is a far bigger concern than wear through. Studies have shown that to be a major concern, they have been quoted in this thread. Quality leather gear has seam tape behind the seams to make sure the leather doesn't pull apart. I have quality gear with leather panels in critical areas, it is reinforced or even covers over high denier modern fabrics. Is it single stictched (worthless), double stitched (lowest acceptable), triple stitched (excellent) or French seamed (strong but not abrasion resistant). Larger leather pieces are good, lots of smaller pieces sewn together are prone to failure at the multiple seams.

Again, so many variables to quality gear. Just saying that leather, in and of itself, is not a magic protector layer. The whole garment must be considered. It is simply easier and less expensive to make a quality protective garment with good textiles. If you want to argue about sliding long distances with a quality leather garment without rolling and bouncing then I'll admit you will likely win a simple abrasion test. Life is rarely so simple.
 
...we tend not to slide too much down the road. We tend to impact and roll and bounce.

I don't disagree that many crashing motorcyclists tumble. Tumbling breaks bones and dislocates joints. It is thus more dangerous than sliding. It adds significantly to one's probable _overall_ injury severity, which significantly decreases survivability, particularly the older the rider (but there seems to be a significant break somewhere around ~~30-ish?).

I think that a significant reason crashing motorcyclists tumble instead of sliding is their garments, frequently either not motorcycle clothing at all, or average (which average is very cheap) textiles.


Where we seem to disagree is that high quality textiles rival good leather.

We do not disagree on that as far as I can tell. Where we disagree is your repeated attempts to equate poor (meaning average) textiles to only really good leather. There are very few 'good' textiles on the market, based on the combination of testing plus post-crash examination. The observed reality (not the coulda or mighta) is that in general leather just flat works better unless you spend A LOT on textiles. This may be significantly exacerbated by the fact that the overwhelming majority of textiles _actually worn by_ riders are junk, but that simply reinforces the point.
 
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Where we disagree is your repeated attempts to equate poor (meaning average) textiles to only really good leather. There are very few 'good' textiles on the market, based on the combination of testing plus post-crash examination. The observed reality (not the coulda or mighta) is that in general leather just flat works better unless you spend A LOT on textiles. This may be significantly exacerbated by the fact that the overwhelming majority of textiles _actually worn by_ riders are junk, but that simply reinforces the point.
I think we are far closer to agreement than you suggest.

Your last point first. We are in total agreement that most moto-gear is actually pretty bad (junk)from the technical standpoint.

Where we may disagree are on 2 other points. I tried to compare mid-upper grade fabric (which is less expensive) to average leather(which is more expensive), not low grade fabric to leather. My efforts to point out leather grades and types and provide wear info on better fabrics vs leather.

I also am concerned about construction as studies you provided show seam failure and fastener failure to be serious issues, possibly bigger issues than wear through of fabric. Many lower priced leather pants are made by patching together small pieces of leather with seams in wear areas.

id also say that (again, at least with mid-upper quality brands) the fabrics typically used are currently made with thicker and more wear resistant than those shown in this German article from 2007. 600, 800, 1000 denier are far more common today. Often in multiple layers. Aramid, Kevlar, Covex and other fibers are becoming very common as liners, or woven into fabrics. Again, I’m not suggesting those are in widely employed, in real protective ways, in the lower priced brands. I’ve tried, but my message seems to have been muddled, that I make distinctions in the quality of the fabric, just as I suggest the garment construction and the quality of the leather is important.
 
I got my leather and mesh Jackets brand new at thrift shops. Helps deal with the cost factor.
I've been known to do the same, as well as moto-trader pages, C-L, etc; I picked up a $400 pair of heavy duty Klim moto pants for $150 recently. There are plenty of good deals out there, sometimes they take some searching to find.
 
Well, I just posted the link to testing SATRA did on leather that was _not_ ‘competition’ stuff vs various textiles including Kevlar-lined jeans. It wasn’t close in terms of what’s most abrasion resistant.

I like Motoport gear, and I wear their pants. Nevertheless, they don’t do anything, or at least they don’t _disclose_ anything, resembling controlled testing. Theirs is nearly the only textile pants I would have much confidence in where abrasion resistance vs leather is concerned.

If my budget was $250 _just_ for (new) pants, I’d put the Joe Rocket race pants I just sold up against about any textile out there for that price, and I’d win at least 9 times out of 10.
I know that many people love their Motoport Kevlar gear and it is highly reviewed and comes with long warranties but I can't get beyond the fact that Kevlar is acutely sensitive to breaking down in sunlight. Some Higher Up at Motoport, perhaps the owner, called me out here a few years ago when I brought this up and said I didn't know what I was talking about. I posted DuPont's technical guide that explains UV degradation of Kevlar material in plain English. A sailor for 40 years, I also sold marine cordage for 10 years and became fairly knowledgeable about how different materials, including Kevlar, that are used in cordage and sails hold up to UV. Anyway, the best Higher Up could say about my concern was 'we use it on the inside'. Mesh is mesh and I can't really see how the inside of a mesh jacket or pant is kept in the dark but there you have it.
 
I remember that exchange, or at least the gist of it.

I’m uncertain what will happen to these pants long-term. Time will tell. Same goes for leather here (that time would tell), since if I wore it year-round it would get soaked twice daily from either saturated LD Comfort or sweat. (-:
 
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I live in Oklahoma. I need mostly different gear winter and summer. I wear all the gear, all the time. I wear the same helmet year round. Most of my gear comes from Revzilla or the manufacturer. I spend ridiculous amounts of money on gear, but no kids to pay for anymore, retired, and I don’t smoke or gamble or eat fancy meals or drink $5.00 coffee.

Winter
Olympia waterproof textile pants and jackets. They have vents, but are far too heavy for hot weather.
Goretex Alpinestars boots.
Rukka goretex gloves. I demand gloves have a hard part at the base of the hand. There is a bone there that riders tend to break that takes months to heal. These are the highest quality item I own and the most comparatively expensive. You can get very good gloves for a lot less.

Summer
First gear high viz mesh jacket
Olympia mesh pants
First gear perforated boots
Alpinestars shirt cuff perforated gloves.

I do have a leather jacket and riding jeans for looking cool, but the temperatures have to be moderate.

I usually but not always wear a high viz Helite airbag vest. It works, but it is too hot in summer.

You didn’t ask but the Duluth underwear is great and adds 100 miles to my day.
 
Anybody use these type of mufflers? When I lived in Japan, they were common on both motor bikes and bicycles:

View attachment 43077
I still have a working pair of Vetter Hippo Hands, circa late 1970s. I have never installed them on the NC.

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I like to ride in comfort. So I wear hiking/camping clothes. Mainly Mountain Hardware soft shell pants and jacket. If it's chilly MH Primaloft 100 grain pants and jacket. Very cold out, I put on Icebreaker Merino wool base layer. Raining MH Paclite GoreTex pants and jacket. Gloves if it's cold enough. MH Powerstretch. Very cold out. OR/Outdoor Research GoreTex mittens. And some cheap overboots. LS2 modular helmet. Or if it's real nice out. No helmet. That's just me. I can't stand bulky and heavy gear. I'm not street racing or trying to act like the NC700X is a motocross bike.
 
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