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Stalling issue

670cc

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Sorry to hear that the dealer network is not helping, they should. A lot must have changed(maybe not) with Honda if they are not. This is a SAFETY issue bottom line. What I do know first hand was in they 80s I was finishing my last Honda Pro class to become a registered tech, and my buddy who was a service rep. for American Honda was on a phone call with a customer of a New V4. After he got off the phone saying that he has the information and NEVER heard about this problem. I said how could you say that? He informed me that you cannot admit to a problem unless you have a fix, as he padded a stack of forms documenting that same problem.
This is exactly my impression of Honda’s standard operating procedure for handling defects. Honda may gather information, but deny there is any problem or knowledge of a problem until the entire resolution process has been established. If the defect’s impact on liability or brand name reputation is minimal, do nothing.

The good thing is that Honda engineering and manufacturing are good, so there are very few defects that surface. That is why I buy their products, not because they back up their products well. My bet when buying a Honda is that it will never have a serious defect, and it will never see a dealer again once it leaves the showroom. That is the way it has played out for me every time. I would be very dissatisfied if I got a Honda that had a defect like the ‘21 stalling issue, a problem I possibly could not rectify on my own.
 
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Ron B

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Quick update on my situation. Dealer checked ground changed battery (all Honda suggestions) although mine was new of course....they also checked a few other items .Got bike back for 2 days ...so far so good .Battery may be the factor heard dct is very sensitive to low voltage . Crossing my fingers . Honda seems to be taking it seriously now.
Will update this thread as things evolve .hope others can benefit if all ok .
 

670cc

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Quick update on my situation. Dealer checked ground changed battery (all Honda suggestions) although mine was new of course....they also checked a few other items .Got bike back for 2 days ...so far so good .Battery may be the factor heard dct is very sensitive to low voltage . Crossing my fingers . Honda seems to be taking it seriously now.
Will update this thread as things evolve .hope others can benefit if all ok .
Weak battery has long been a known contributor to problems with the dual clutch transmission operation, but in 2012-2020 models has never caused stalling. Let’s hope in your case it makes a difference.
 

bigbird

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The good thing is that Honda engineering and manufacturing are good, so there are very few defects that surface. That is why I buy their products, not because they back up their products well. My bet when buying a Honda is that it will never have a serious defect, and it will never see a dealer again once it leaves the showroom. That is the way it has played out for me every time. I would be very dissatisfied if I got a Honda that had a defect like the ‘21 stalling issue, a problem I possibly could not rectify on my own.
You own a Goldwing, right?
Cracked frames, rear brake master cylinder recall, early ADG failures, failure of CKP sensors, overheating of gen 1 models; the list goes on and on.
On the Honda automotive side the 1.5L turbo in the 2018-19 CRV's with gasoline dilution of the engine oil was a consumer nightmare that I am aware of.
The only reason I am aware of that one is because in 2018 I was shopping for a new SUV.
The CRV and Subie Forester were at the top of my list.
After some Googling I found out about the CRV engine problem.
I'm sure there are many more that I am not aware of.
At one time Honda was put up on an engineering and manufacturing pedestal.
I believe those days are long gone.
 
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670cc

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You own a Goldwing, right?
Cracked frames, rear brake master cylinder recall, early ADG failures, failure of CKP sensors, overheating of gen 1 models; the list goes on and on.
On the Honda automotive side the 1.5L turbo in the 2018-19 CRV's with gasoline dilution of the engine oil was a consumer nightmare that I am aware of.
The only reason I am aware of that one is because in 2018 I was shopping for a new SUV.
The CRV and Subie Forester were at the top of my list.
After some Googling I found out about the CRV engine problem.
I'm sure there are many more that I am not aware of.
At one time Honda was put up on an engineering and manufacturing pedestal.
I believe those days are long gone.

I agree, those days are gone. You pay your money and take your chances (or however that saying goes).

I have taken my chances on many Honda motorcycles and scooters, and none of my examples had any serious defects that required Honda's involvement after the sale.
 

lootzyan

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...Battery may be the factor heard dct is very sensitive to low voltage . Crossing my fingers . Honda seems to be taking it seriously now...
Let's not kid ourselves. The problems with the engine stalling when starting from a standstill have Honda motorcycle models with DCT and with Throttle by Wire System. So it is definitely not caused by a weaker battery or bad electrical contact. A technical explanation is not needed here. It is self-explanatory.
Honda and many dealerships have heard of this problem since 2018 when the new Honda CRF1000D/D II came with the TbWS. It is not difficult to find it in the forums.
I can believe that some dealers do not know how to deal with this problem. But I do not believe that the Honda Technical Department does not know what the technical reason is. This is not an isolated problem. It is quite well described by many owners. There are good YT videos of the Africa Twin/DCT riding around city streets in the UK (looks like London).
 

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From the Honda NC750X FB Owners Group:

"I have taken my bike into the dealers today in the UK for the stalling problem. Had a phone call from the mechanic who said Honda have issued a cpu update 2 days ago. Not sure if this is to help with the problem but will keep you updated".
 

Ron B

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Great news please keep us updated .
Took mine out for last 3 days .Did start and stop trials for 100 times .No stalling now after last fix .lets hope .....
 

lootzyan

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...No stalling now after last fix .lets hope .....
So what did they fix?
I think we are all here waiting for this information.
Did you get a detailed list of what has been done? The dealer is obligated to issue such a list.
Last time you also did not give details of the repair:
"Dealer checked ground changed battery (all Honda suggestions) although mine was new of course .... they also checked a few other items .Got bike back for 2 days ... so far so good."
 

Ron B

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So what did they fix?
I think we are all here waiting for this information.
Did you get a detailed list of what has been done? The dealer is obligated to issue such a list.
Last time you also did not give details of the repair:
"Dealer checked ground changed battery (all Honda suggestions) although mine was new of course .... they also checked a few other items .Got bike back for 2 days ... so far so good."
Just spoke to the dealer.
Reflashed ecu
Checked all grounds
Changed battery.
That's all ...the ecu alone did not do it .They did grounds and battery last this seems to have solved it. Only 3 days now .
Thats the best answer I have for everyone.
Hope it helps
 

670cc

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Just spoke to the dealer.
Reflashed ecu
Checked all grounds
Changed battery.
That's all ...the ecu alone did not do it .They did grounds and battery last this seems to have solved it. Only 3 days now .
Thats the best answer I have for everyone.
Hope it helps
The battery is generally considered a consumable item. Did Honda provide a new battery at no cost under warranty to help resolve the stalling issue? Was the old battery tested to determine it’s condition?

When you say the ECU was “reflashed”, does that mean it was reloaded with the same software it had before, or was it programmed with a new version?
 

Ron B

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So what did they fix?
I think we are all here waiting for this information.
Did you get a detailed list of what has been done? The dealer is obligated to issue such a list.
Last time you also did not give details of the repair:
"Dealer checked ground changed battery (all Honda suggestions) although mine was new of course .... they also checked a few other items .Got bike back for 2 days ... so far so good."
Just spoke to the dealer.
Reflashed ecu
Checked all grounds
Changed battery.
That's all ...the ecu alone did not do it .They did grounds and battery last this seems to have solved it. Only 3 days now .
Thats the best answer I have for everyone.
Hope it he
 

670cc

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The battery was changed under warranty.
That is interesting. Is the OEM original and replacement battery a Yuasa YTZ12S, or is it something different?
 

lootzyan

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...Reflashed ecu
Checked all grounds
Changed battery...
Ron, I really sincerely wish you that your problems with your bike are resolved successfully. But, no offense, your last answer only adds more questions.
In post # 127 I wrote that:
"... the engine stalling when starting from a standstill ... is definitely not caused by a weaker battery or bad electrical contact. ..."
You, in your first post (# 84), wrote:
"... Bike stalled around 8 times since purchased. It happens as I start either from cold or after a good run .Always after a stop .totally at random."

Now the dealer, as a solution to the problem, checked the connection to the ground and forced you to buy a new battery.
Rhetorical question: What are the chances that due to a battery failure or loss of connection to ground, the engine will stop only when starting from a standstill? From my point of view - zero. It should happen anytime and under any circumstances. So the reason must be different and not damage to the battery.
Before starting the engine, the health of the battery and connection is tested twice. First, turning on the ignition switch turns on the lights, powers the fuel pump, PCM, ABS, DCT shift control motor etc. Lots of juice drawn from the battery. Then, second, start the engine. A real high load on the battery, not very possible without a good battery. If it goes without a problem then the battery and connections are in good condition.
In a few seconds the alternator takes over the power supply to the entire system. The battery is now charged and has no effect on the operation of the engine and DCT. Even when the engine is idling, the alternator supplies enough energy (if the circuit is not overloaded with additional devices).
Modern ECM/PCMs have a circuit that monitors that the battery is connected to the main circuit. This is to protect the ECM/PCM from damage. Should the battery circuit be completely interrupted, even with the alternator running, the ECM/PCM causes the engine to stop. With a weaker battery and/or a poor connection, the electric current flow is still ensured, so the ECM/PCM will not give a signal to stop the engine.
Ron, in your situation, did you notice a complete loss of electricity after the engine stopped, e.g. the display went blank? Only that would be a malfunction of the battery or the total loss of the battery connection.
All this "reflashing ECU " by your dealer ... I don't believe it.
For enthusiasts, this is intended to improve the vehicle's performance. From what I know, it is quite an expensive operation with PGM-FI parameter adjustment, often with a complete replacement of the factory ECU software, thorough testing and the addition of additional engine control and regulation devices.
I do not think an authorized Honda dealer and technicians would get Honda's blessing for such modifications, especially during the factory warranty period.
 

Ron B

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I appreciate your lengthy and through response
To answer your question bikes dashboard never went out .Dealer installed battery at no cost
All I can say is I will drive it and keep this forum informed.
 

the Ferret

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When my FJR was recalled for second gear, after the rebuild the ecu had to be re-flashed ( re programmed if you will) by the servicing dealer. In this the ecu was also re-dated for day of repair. No additional performance over pre re-flashing parameters.
 

lootzyan

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When my FJR was recalled for second gear, after the rebuild the ecu had to be re-flashed ( re programmed if you will) by the servicing dealer. In this the ecu was also re-dated for day of repair. No additional performance over pre re-flashing parameters.
This case cannot be a good example of what is discussed here. As you mention your FJR had recall and that applied to all bikes from that model.
Here we learn about the occasional NC "reflash" operation by the dealer, just in case.
For the last 9 years I have never heard it is possible to "update" NC/CTX PCM by a dealer. So maybe this is something new from the 2021 model onwards. The question is, can modern Honda diagnostic tools diagnose defective ECM/PCM software?
 
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