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Stalling issue

the Ferret

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Sorry, I must have misunderstood what you wrote about dealerships not being able to/authorized to reflash an ecu by the manufacturer while under warranty.

I always thought dealerships were able to reprogram the ECU back to factory specs when something goes wrong inside the ECU.

I'll ask the head tech at my local shop next time I'm up there.
 

dduelin

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All this "reflashing ECU " by your dealer ... I don't believe it.
For enthusiasts, this is intended to improve the vehicle's performance. From what I know, it is quite an expensive operation with PGM-FI parameter adjustment, often with a complete replacement of the factory ECU software, thorough testing and the addition of additional engine control and regulation devices.
I do not think an authorized Honda dealer and technicians would get Honda's blessing for such modifications, especially during the factory warranty period.
When I worked at an authorized Honda dealer in 2018 I did see our techs use the proprietary Honda diagnostic computer the dealership owned to reflash 2018 DCT Goldwings that exhibited stalling. The software in the diagnostic tool is continually updated by American Honda and authorized for use by dealers.

I think what you are talking about is reflashing with aftermarket engine mapping that alters the ECU software from EPA and factory authorized versions. Of course American Honda would not allow that and rogue dealers that did so can be fined huge amounts of money by the EPA. Harley Davidson paid $12 million US in 2020 to settle a suit brought by the EPA about 5 years ago for this practice.
 

showkey

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It’s impossible for anyone on this forum to know if Honda has changed ( updated) the NC ECU software.
The manufacturer ( HONDA) and maybe a well informed dealer technician would be the only persons that might know.

Honda ECU software will have a part number assigned like 37805-5YF-C420. The dealer would have no information on the changes or updates. …..only if there was multiple choices of versions. Many times older versions would not even be a choice.
 
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JPD750

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I just bought a new 2021 NC750X DCT. I have over 400 miles on it and the bike has stalled on me 5 times now. Today after riding 50 miles on the freeway, then riding in stop and go traffic, taking off from the light the bike will either hesitate, or stall. The more miles I put on the bike the more it happens. It has stalled 5 times now. I took it to the shop, the mechanic said it is all computerized, there is no adjustments. WTH... Does anyone have this problem?

I just hit 1100 miles. My 2021 DCT has stalled only twice. Both times taking off from a light and very easy on the throttle. Otherwise, no issues.
 

stylus1828

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Mine stalled 3 times last week... too bad winter is coming and I can't ride it anymore. Tomorrow will be my last ride this year and I hope that I can replicate the stalling issue and record it so I can send the video to Honda.
 

showkey

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. The question is, can modern Honda diagnostic tools diagnose defective ECM/PCM software?
The dealer scan tool in motorcycle or cars does not have the capability to check or debug software.

The scan tool has some two way communication ( with certain vehicles or models it varies) where the tool can give commands to devices through the ECU. The device responses all is good……if it does not respond then the device, wiring, ECU output ( driver) or software are the suspects. Software being the last and not accessible to the dealer. Software in the ECU being Corrupted is not common problem.

Yes, the manufacturer has direct access to the software checking, modification and complete debug. Engine management changes at certain levels have to be go through recertification.
 

lootzyan

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...The dealer scan tool in motorcycle or cars does not have the capability to check or debug software...
It was a rhetorical question taken out of context here, which is:
"For the last 9 years I have never heard it is possible to "update" NC/CTX PCM by a dealer. So maybe this is something new from the 2021 model onwards. The question is, can modern Honda diagnostic tools diagnose defective ECM/PCM software? "
Of course, I do not believe that a company like Honda (or any other) would do a PCM software change and implement it (or flash) for a relatively small number of defective products if this program works for the vast majority of bikes from this model.
Because the problem is not in the PCM software but only in the faulty device which affects the operation of the engine.
If there was any change to the software that improves engine performance and it is possible to implement it, the entire production series would be recalled.
If eg the IACV, in rare cases, does not work properly, who would be able to predict it to properly set the IACV parameters in the PCM program only for the duration of the malfunction?
 

TNHoosier

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The stalling issue may result from the sum of the deviations from 'nominal' in various components. Each component may measure 'within spec' when checked individually, but the rare combination of parts slightly off nominal may cause the stall. This could be 2 components or 20.

The diagnosis of this would probably require Engineering to get involved, they have the tools required. As it has been stated, Honda is not going to divert those resources for the few instances of the issue.

I had a similar issue with detonation on my Tiger 1050. It would 'ping' during acceleration with 30% - 80% throttle under any condition. I tried all available brands of premium fuel and octane booster. The dealer said they could not replicate. Triumph CS would not acknowledge even though several of us owners experienced the issue. I looked at the A/F, ignition timing map and could see the A/F ratio was very lean and the spark was aggressively advanced in that RPM range. I came up with a band-aide fix but ultimately sold the bike mostly due to this issue.

Moral of this story is the manufacturer is not going to do anything until enough people complain loud enough and sales figures are impacted.
 

alex_bikes

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I had the same issue, stalled a lot of times, only happening after the bike has been running for a while.
When starting (bike is cold) the acceleration is smooth, but afterwards the RPM starts to be wonky in the beginning, it doesnt always stall, but it's annoying to say the least.

Brought it for the first service (1000Km) and they told me that a recall (they dont know what yet) for some VIN numbers will occur (until the end of November).
That I should get something in the mail (hopefully) that will let me know to bring it to be serviced.

Has anyone heard of a recall of sorts happening?
This is for the nc750x '21.
 
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Wheels

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2021 nc750x dct. Had two stalls within 1,000 miles riding. Stall was at a red light. I just barely touched
the throttle ... stall. Bike went to Neutral, hit the start button and put it back into drive.

When brand new , the bike would start (one second) and stall. Trained myself to push the start button hard and
slightly hold it.

At 600 mile checkup , told dealer quick start/stall, (suggested MASF) also wanted them to aim the headlights.
Nice people but I have no confidence they know what they are doing. Didn't say they read any error codes.
Told me the headlights were correct. Eh, its all about the time and money, very little money in sales nowadays.
IMO, Honda needs better programmer/engineers. All the new, electronic stuff places the onus on the
dealer mechanics. This is a cheap and incorrect policy, they need better diagnostics for the dealers.

Will purchase the service manual.

CTX DCT with 35k, no problems like this one, and yea, I am very familiar with the bike absolutely requiring
12 + vdc to run properly.
 

Lawyer4speed

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Unfortunately I don't know what type of reflashing they did on mine. But Tom the Service Manager at Honda Metuchen NJ would know for sure.
I will call him on Tuesday to let him know bike is running well now .No new stalling issues after 230 miles today .
Hope this helps.
Hi there Ron!
did the reflash that Honda Metuchen do work well? I’m contemplating the same bike and that’s a dealer near me. .. Thanks! Laz.
 

gary

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bought my 2021 nc750x dct last week. rented a trailer to pick up tuesday 11/23. got a call from the dealer monday at 3:00 telling me they could not release the bike per honda usa to remap the ECU. (lost rental payment as cancellation not 24 hours in advance). this is the flash that's supposed to fix the stalling problem. they called me friday 11/26 said the ECU reflash was complete and can release bike. picked up saturday. rode fine today.
 

Thomasec

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Just to update this thread, Honda has announced a full safety recall on 2021 NC750xd (dct) models worldwide to address this issue. The fix is mainly a newer ECU program (via flash update) that several owners seem to have already received. Honda will contact affected USA owners after the first of the year via letter.
 
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