Stalling issue

[bigbird]

I'm curious how long did it take for a new software version to be available to dealerships to fix the issue once it was reported.
Fred H on the GL forum appears to be the guy pushing the internal friction thing.
Until a Honda reflash is available, it certainly can't hurt anything to try and make a '21 Honda NC750X DCT safe to ride, instead of parking it at a dealer to wait for a solution.

 

[670cc]

Geez. Let's throw in a little eye of newt and toe of frog just to cover all the possibilities of what fixes it.

When the 2018 model Goldwing hit the dealers there were a few complaints by owners of off idle stalling in DCT models. I worked in a Honda dealership at the time and when the first complaint bike came in the service department on an appointment the service manager called Honda support in Torrance, CA and the tech worked several hours over the phone with Honda. Our area technical rep was there. The fix was a reflash of bike's engine management software with the newest version. That was the standard fix for 2018 bikes that presented the complaint. I think we had two owners with it and sold maybe 40 or 50 2018s. It was never a widespread complaint and involved very few bikes.

Good to hear. I hope Honda promptly addresses any stalling issues on the new NCs as well. However, the way Bob S. is being treated with incompetence by his dealer doesn't offer much hope for his situation

 

[TheIronWarrior]

He said the idle control stops the fuel delivery completely when closing the throttle.
If there is too much internal drag on the engine moving parts, the resumption of fuel for the maintaining of an idle may be insufficient to overcome the friction.

There was an issue on a certain model year of the Ninja 300 (2013 actually) where the DFCO (Deceleration Fuel Cut Off) was set too aggressively and the engine would cut out before the fuel was turned back on. The fix was an ECU update to adjust. It would happen when stopping though, not pulling away if I recall correctly. DFCO would only come into play while decelerating with a closed throttle.

Could be a similar fuel delivery programming issue though.

For reference, the bikes which were manufactured in July 2012 - April 2013 were recalled starting August 2013. The NHTSA investigation opened on June 20th but Kawi started to recall before the investigation . It is unclear when Kawi first started working on the solution.

 

[dduelin]

Good to hear. I hope Honda promptly addresses any stalling issues on the new NCs as well. However, the way Bob S. is being treated with incompetence by his dealer doesn't offer much hope for his situation

Call me jaded but I don't give just anyone full credibility for what they say someone else said or did. Definitely not able to then make categorical judgements on that basis. I've had too many of those conversations myself when I was not clear, misheard what I thought I heard, or was listening to someone that was a good bull slinger only to find out later they don't know crap from cream of wheat.

 

[lootzyan]

Geez. Let's throw in a little eye of newt and toe of frog just to cover all the possibilities of what fixes it....
When the 2018 model Goldwing hit the dealers there were a few complaints by owners of off idle stalling in DCT models. ... I think we had two owners with it and sold maybe 40 or 50 2018s. It was never a widespread complaint and involved very few bikes...

Very poetic.
But maybe let's try a little less poetic use of simple math. Your dealership has had 2 problematic incidents out of 50 2018 Goldwings sold. So, assuming about 5,000 were sold over a period of time throughout the US, there could be about 200 similar complaints. Can this also be ignored?
If a tragic accident happened due to an engine stall or a DCT breakdown, who would know what the real cause of the accident was?
We know how over 10 years ago the Toyota scandal of denying the "sudden acceleration" of their vehicles ended. Criminal investigation by the FBI and the Justice Department, $1.2 billion criminal penalty for issuing misleading and deceptive statements to its consumers and federal regulators. And then there were a relatively small number of cases per millions of Toyota vehicles sold.
Since the introduction of the 2nd-generation DCT in 2011, Honda has never fixed the problems with DCT, no matter which generation. In addition, the knowledge and experience of many technicians trained by Honda is terribly low.

 

[dduelin]

Very poetic.
But maybe let's try a little less poetic use of simple math. Your dealership has had 2 problematic incidents out of 50 2018 Goldwings sold. So, assuming about 5,000 were sold over a period of time throughout the US, there could be about 200 similar complaints. Can this also be ignored?
If a tragic accident happened due to an engine stall or a DCT breakdown, who would know what the real cause of the accident was?
We know how over 10 years ago the Toyota scandal of denying the "sudden acceleration" of their vehicles ended. Criminal investigation by the FBI and the Justice Department, $1.2 billion criminal penalty for issuing misleading and deceptive statements to its consumers and federal regulators. And then there were a relatively small number of cases per millions of Toyota vehicles sold.
Since the introduction of the 2nd-generation DCT in 2011, Honda has never fixed the problems with DCT, no matter which generation. In addition, the knowledge and experience of many technicians trained by Honda is terribly low.

There also could have been just 2 incidents, not 200. I didn't know and you don't know. I've had two DCT bikes without issues. To use your logic, there are no issues with this brand and model of motorcycle.

This is not in anyway related to Toyota, why hide behind a straw man?

I suggest you take up your problems with the NHTSA and have them handle a recall for the "problems never fixed" since 2011.

 

[lootzyan]

... To use your logic...

What is the logic do I have? I'd rather call it a statistics.
And although I spent a significant amount of cash on two DCT motorcycles, against any logic, I have never felt any love or special feelings for them because they are just mechanical devices and I am not going to defend their honor that they are flawless products... so it must be so... because I have them...

 

[Deleted member 1183]

It sounds as if there is a design flaw. If the cause is due to the reasons you mentioned, as you said. it doesn't simply make the problem OK. Honda should develop a solution and deploy a safety recall, service campaign, or technical bulletin, as well as fix the problem in forward production.

In the meantime I'd advise USA owner's experiencing the 2021 stalling problem to file a report to the NHTSA. https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem#index

This stalling could be dangerous and my friend is in his 80's with dodgy knees, so his bike suddenly stalling under him could bring him down, and he was lucky it didn't happen. As such it is a safety issue and I agree that it should be reported to the NHTSA or whatever is similar in other countries.

I actually saw a stall bring down a friend one day on a 690KTM which were notorious for stalling back in the days when they were in the early years or production.

 

[DirtFlier]

I have a 2013 USA model/w DCT and have never had any problem with stalling, cold or hot. Make sure your battery cables connections are clean & tight.

 

[bigbird]

I have a 2013 USA model/w DCT and have never had any problem with stalling, cold or hot. Make sure your battery cables connections are clean & tight.

This issue only affects '21 models with DCT.
The throttle control system was changed for the '21s to drive by wire (electronic) instead of cables that actuate the throttle butterfly, which yours and all pre-'21 models use.
It seems the ECM programming might need to be changed for the '21s to eliminate the stalling issue.

 

[670cc]

This thread was originally created regarding a 2013 model, but the discussion is now largely related to the 2021 model stalling incident(s). Thus, I just now removed the reference to the 2013 model from the thread title.

 

[bigbird]

A copy/paste update from an owner in the Netherlands, posted on a FB NC750 group:

"2021 DCT Stalling update
Today I took my 2021 NC DCT to the Honda dealer as I experienced my 1st engine stall last weekend when pulling away from traffic lights.
The chief technician at my dealer just won the 2021 Technician of the Year competition in the Netherlands - so he knows what he is doing! (plus they only sell and work on Hondas)
He is also in a Whatsapp group with other Honda Technicians across the Netherlands to allow them to use all of their experiences to solve problems.
Feedback from the group was that they have all seen issues with 2021 DCTś stalling but no-one has a solution yet - they have all reported the issues officially to Honda - my issue was also passed onto Honda today
My dealer connected the bike up to a diagnostic machine to see if any fault codes found - none
However he remembers a similar thing happening on Honda Gold Wings and occasionally on Africa Twins. What they found was that it was an issue with the start/kill switch button that for some reason is sending a message to the computer which is killing the engine - There was a recall and switches replaced.
He says it sounds similar but obviously needs honda to advise. We also checked - the dct and manual bikes use the same start/kill switches so why only affecting the DCT? The computers are not the same and perhaps the signal from the switch is only affecting the DCT computers telling them to kill the engine.
At least from the Netherlands, it appears Honda are aware of this issue only affecting 2021 DCT NCś - we await their response.
Hopefully this has been helpful."

 

[Shiftyfink]

I’m new here and found this forum via Google. Having the same issues as many. My bike has stalled at stop lights about 4 times. Ive also had the stuck in 2nd gear issue in sport mode. Bike has about 400 miles on it. I thought I was using my mind. I only use ethanol free gas. I will also report it to my dealer.

 

[670cc]

I’m new here and found this forum via Google. Having the same issues as many. My bike has stalled at stop lights about 4 times. Ive also had the stuck in 2nd gear issue in sport mode. Bike has about 400 miles on it. I thought I was using my mind. I only use ethanol free gas. I will also report it to my dealer.

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear that your new bike has problems. Please report back on how the dealer responds.

 

[Bob S.]

I put my NC into the shop today, again. But my bike ran normally when they test rode it. Yet, on my ride home it stalled at a traffic light near my house. The owner of the dealership refused to document my problem, unless the bike stalls during the test ride. I bought a GoPro helmet cam and captured my bike stalling twice. But they told me that it dosen't matter the bike has to stall during a test ride. I am so frustrated!

 

[Bob S.]

I tried to report this problem to the NHTSA, but my VIN is not recognized... Too new I guess.

 

[Bob S.]

Bob S.,
You said you have an intermittent stalling problem when leaving a stop light. Then you said you had problems with the transmission sticking in second or third, but I don't recall the exact issue. So I'm wondering if your stalling is being caused by the transmission, like perhaps the DCT is in second gear when you try to start away from a stop? Have you observed the gear indicator during those scenarios?

I will keep an eye on my gear indicator when stopped at traffic light. Thanks

 

[Bob S.]

I’m new here and found this forum via Google. Having the same issues as many. My bike has stalled at stop lights about 4 times. Ive also had the stuck in 2nd gear issue in sport mode. Bike has about 400 miles on it. I thought I was using my mind. I only use ethanol free gas. I will also report it to my dealer.

Welcome to the forum! Sorry to hear about your stalling problem too. It is very frustrating!

 

[670cc]

I put my NC into the shop today, again. But my bike ran normally when they test rode it. Yet, on my ride home it stalled at a traffic light near my house. The owner of the dealership refused to document my problem, unless the bike stalls during the test ride. I bought a GoPro helmet cam and captured my bike stalling twice. But they told me that it dosen't matter the bike has to stall during a test ride. I am so frustrated!

Sadly, one problem is your motorcycle, and the other problem is that shop. Taking good care of the customer is obviously not in that dealership’s mission statement.

 

[HarveyM]

Bob S. Time to find a third dealer.
As somebody once said third time's a charm.