Thoughts on the gearing on the Honda NC700X manual

[makepies]

Hello folks, newbie here. Returning to motorcycling after 12+ years off.

I would like to hear from owners of the manual model how they find the gearing / gear ratios. You see I'm considering plunking down for a 2016 w/ low mileage (~2000) but I haven't ridden one yet. I'm finding that a LOT of bikes are geared low and want you to ride with high revs. I would *prefer* though I haven't found it yet to get a little more torque down low (say <3000rpm) and keep it all relaxed but, due to the higher torque, separate the gears a little more so you have a little more usable power range within each gear so you don't have to shift as often.

I've read a lot about the low revs and high low-RPM torque on these bikes but no mention of how they are geared - short or tall - except for a few references to treating 6th as an overdrive gear.

So how are these geared? Thanks ...

 

[Janus]

At 70mph the bike sits around 4k and isn't buzzy. I don't feel that the bike wants to be revved high at all. I'm on stock gearing with my '17 NC700X and have been for all of my 52k+ miles.

6th can take you from 30-35 all the way up to top speed. 4-5-6th can all maintain freeway speeds. I think 3rd can do freeway speeds too but it's not something I test out enough to recall.

I've never felt that I shift too often, even in stop and go traffic in the Seattle or Tacoma areas.

 

[670cc]

I have changed gearing on one or two motorcycles I did own in the past. And, I will very soon be changing the final drive gearing on my Goldwing 1800 that I currently own. However, I find the stock NC700X manual transmission gearing to be perfect just as it is. I have no need or desire to change the NC’s gearing.

The NC pulls strongly from a stop or up a steep slope, but is not reving high on the highway. On many relaxed, short local rides on two lane highways and farm roads, I never go over 3500 RPM for the whole ride. I guess I do shift a lot because I do run through all 6 gears all the time, but shifting is easy and done subconsciously and I enjoy it as part of the riding experience.

 

[dduelin]

Honda built this engine for volumetric efficiency and produces its power in what is considered a motorcycle's low and mid range rpms. At 2800 rpm it is making nearly 95% of highest torque output which occurs around 4800 rpm. At only 2200 rpm it's producing about 75%. It has no high rpm range and in 2016 was still rev limited to 6500 rpm and that rev limiter is quickly reached in the lower gears. The late Kevin Ash wrote in an initial review from 2012 "It feels like an 80bhp engine until you start to rev it and look for that 80bhp, then it goes flat and feels like a 40bhp engine instead." Here lies the rub for many that have professed dislike for the NC700/750. They go looking for the 80 hp and with it's gearing in gears 1 to 4 it pulls so strongly and willingly that it's not difficult to slam into the hard rev limiter at 6500 rpm. Most bikes signal a warning that it is time to shift because they rev far beyond peak torque and begin to kind of "fall off" as revs build to near maximum but the NC pulls hard right to the limiter because peak horsepower is just 100 rpm below the limiter. Just when many bikes are beginning their top end rush to max horsepower the NC BAM! hits the limiter and goes flat. However, if you are a rider predisposed to riding bikes with good low and mid range power and are used to short shifting and riding the torque wave and not chasing revs and horsepower for your fun there is no problem acclimating to this torquey twin. It's quick without being powerful and pulls strongly through the gears to 85-90 mph.

The entire Kevin Ash review.

 

[MZ5]

I think the gearing is about right (I have a '12). Going to taller gearing would make it too much a dog at highway speed, and gearing it shorter would have it revving too high, to me.

 

[Rapturee]

I think the gearing is about right (I have a '12). Going to taller gearing would make it too much a dog at highway speed, and gearing it shorter would have it revving too high, to me.

MZ that is a common belief that the NC would "be too much of a dog" at highway speeds being geared higher though that is not the case. I geared my 12' up 20% and never found that to be true. The NC is an incredible machine and the Honda engineers must have all had Monster Coffee's that week when they designed our wonderful bikes. In short, I ran 17T/39T gears, and a 140/80-17 rear tire. On my GPS the speedometer showed me an average of 20% off through the range. Now, i also 2-up'd occasionally with a Pillion that weighed in at a modest 200lbs and still the NC handled it very well. I absolutely enjoyed hammering the gears and just listening to the NC torq/pull hard through the gears up to freeway speeds with what appeared to be effortless acceleration. I have two large mountain passes in my area and either direction i go i have to pull one or two of them. Each Mt pass only required me to downshift to 5th. Yes i miss my 12' but am really enjoying the 15' DCT i have now. ...just my $.02 :{)

 

[potter0o]

Hello folks, newbie here. Returning to motorcycling after 12+ years off.

I would like to hear from owners of the manual model how they find the gearing / gear ratios. You see I'm considering plunking down for a 2016 w/ low mileage (~2000) but I haven't ridden one yet. I'm finding that a LOT of bikes are geared low and want you to ride with high revs. I would *prefer* though I haven't found it yet to get a little more torque down low (say <3000rpm) and keep it all relaxed but, due to the higher torque, separate the gears a little more so you have a little more usable power range within each gear so you don't have to shift as often.

I've read a lot about the low revs and high low-RPM torque on these bikes but no mention of how they are geared - short or tall - except for a few references to treating 6th as an overdrive gear.

So how are these geared? Thanks ...

I think you are looking at the right machine. Low reving with tourque.

 

[showkey]

Agree with the prior posts.
The NC highway cruise RPM is often less than bikes that are twice the engine size.

So much so in the early years (2012-2014) this low RPM in all gears generated 100 of posts and heated discussions on the merits or problem* of am I “LUGGING“ my NC ???

That long engine stroke was used to obtain that torque curve and is the reason for the low red line compared to other bikes. Explained in detail in post #4.
Good example compare the CB500x to the NC700/750 for power and RPM specification.

* Reality is the low RPM at any speed you choose is really not a problem.
The suggested shift points in the owners manual really bothered some…….37mph is 6th is lazy ( lugging) rpm for some. Do think late DCT models add more sport modes to give more choices to the rider.

 

[670cc]

Agree with the prior posts.
The NC highway cruise RPM is often less than bikes that are twice the engine size.

So much so in the early years (2012-2014) this low RPM in all gears generated 100 of posts and heated discussions on the merits or problem* of am I “LUGGING“ my NC ???

That long engine stroke was used to obtain that torque curve and is the reason for the low red line compared to other bikes. Explained in detail in post #4.
Good example compare the CB500x to the NC700/750 for power and RPM specification.

* Reality is the low RPM at any speed you choose is really not a problem.
The suggested shift points in the owners manual really bothered some…….37mph is 6th is lazy ( lugging) rpm for some. Do think late DCT models add more sport modes to give more choices to the rider.

View attachment 45763

Adding to showkey’s post, I believe the shift points recommended in the owner’s manual reflect approximately the speed needed to maintain at least 2000 RPM is the selected gear. The 700 engine smooths out and pulls OK at 2000 and above, unless you are in a high gear accelerating or pulling a hill. Below that it can run rough with higher loads.

 

[MZ5]

To be clear: The reason I think the NCX would be too doggy if geared up is that it’s right on the edge of being too doggy for me on the highway with stock gearing. If I shift down it’s fine, which makes clear that stock gearing is as tall as I should go.

The alternative for me, of course, would be to gear up quite a bit and just use 6th gear less. I suppose that’s an option, but not one of interest to me as it would be effectively the same as gearing the bike _down_ some, which I know I don’t want to do.

That is why I think the NCX makes the most, in terms of gearing, of its 50hp.

 

[briderdt]

...In short, I ran 17T/39T gears, and a 140/80-17 rear tire. On my GPS the speedometer showed me an average of 20% off through the range. ...

This is something that confuses me a bit. Isn't the indicated speed (not GPS) from a reading on wheel RPMs (front or rear)? Unless the indicated speed is a calculation based on what gear you're in and the engine RPMs, changes in gearing shouldn't make any difference.

 

[670cc]

This is something that confuses me a bit. Isn't the indicated speed (not GPS) from a reading on wheel RPMs (front or rear)? Unless the indicated speed is a calculation based on what gear you're in and the engine RPMs, changes in gearing shouldn't make any difference.

The vehicle speed sensor resides on the transmission. The sensor is counting the passing teeth on the left most gear on the transmission input shaft. That gear is constantly meshed to it’s transmission countershaft mating gear, which is fixed to the countershaft. Therefore, the speed sensor reading is proportional to the transmission countershaft rotating speed, regardless of selected gear. Any user induced ratio changes between the transmission countershaft and the road surface will affect the speedometer accuracy. Thus, a change in sprocket tooth count or rear tire circumference will alter the speed readout accuracy.

 

[briderdt]

The vehicle speed sensor resides on the transmission. The sensor is counting the passing teeth on the left most gear on the transmission input shaft. That gear is constantly meshed to it’s transmission countershaft mating gear, which is fixed to the countershaft. Therefore, the speed sensor reading is proportional to the transmission countershaft rotating speed, regardless of selected gear. Any user induced ratio changes between the transmission countershaft and the road surface will affect the speedometer accuracy. Thus, a change in sprocket tooth count or rear tire circumference will alter the speed readout.

Thanks for the detailed response -- totally clears up my confusion.

Considering the standard 8% reduction between indicated speed and actual speed, it would seem that an 8% increase in final drive gear ratio would then "correct" the indicated speed... My simple brain thinks so anyway.

 

[670cc]

Thanks for the detailed response -- totally clears up my confusion.

Considering the standard 8% reduction between indicated speed and actual speed, it would seem that an 8% increase in final drive gear ratio would then "correct" the indicated speed... My simple brain thinks so anyway.

Where did you arrive at a “standard” 8% reduction between indicated speed and actual speed? My USA spec NC700X has always had a speedometer indication within about 1% of true speed. I think my CRF and Goldwing were off roughly 5% before I corrected them. I have no speedometer off by 8%, certainly not the NC.