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Turn signals and rear lights not working - RESOLVED!

Phil in Boulder

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Hi,

2013 NC700x, 13,000 miles, owned for 6 yrs., always covered, garaged in winter.

While riding yesterday, I realized that my turn signals had stopped working, not lighting, not blinking. When I got home, I found that additionally my rear light and brake light are also not working. When I activate my flashers, one (front right) comes on and just stays on,
Headlight works fine, and the bike runs smoothly and well.
I’m an older guy, pride myself on having good common sense, and it is humbling to admit that I don’t understand electricity very well, and haven’t learned how to use electrical tools, such as ohm meters, etc., so this could be a limiting factor in your ability to help me. I’ve always heard to proceed very carefully with electrical matters so as to never release the “magic smoke” from the wires.
Here’s what I have done:
Battery is a year old, checked tightness of connections, charged on smart charger, starts bike immediately, powers dash, etc., seems very good.

Took out each fuse in turn, inspected and cleaned contacts, and reinstalled. Then removed the “”turn/clock” fuse again and switched it with another fuse, and then replaced it with a spare. Fuses are good.

Took out all four directional bulbs and inspected them carefully under magnification, they’re all good.

Didn’t take out rear light bulb, as getting the tail light cover off is proving problematic ( another question I have, but first things first ), in that when I loosen the center nut underneath tail assembly, both bolt and nut turn together as a unit endlessly. Seems unlikely that this would cause all the other symptoms, but I am not theoretically certain.

So,I want to know if any of you either (hopefully) know what is going on, or have guidance, direction, insight on what is occurring and how to proceed. Thanks for being there and taking the time to read this.
Sincerely,
Phil in Boulder
 
I had similar issues with a Goldwing I once owned.
It was driving me crazy.
I sprayed electrical contact cleaner into the handlebar turn signal switch and then exercised the switch about 20 times.
Then sprayed some more in and exercised again.
The problem disappeared.
 
I had similar issues with a Goldwing I once owned.
It was driving me crazy.
I sprayed electrical contact cleaner into the handlebar turn signal switch and then exercised the switch about 20 times.
Then sprayed some more in and exercised again.
The problem disappeared.
Thanks big bird. Gave the turn signal switch a good workout after spraying with contact cleaner. No cigar, and thanks for the suggestion.
 
I have some questions to ask to try to help you. You said When I activate my flashers, one (front right) comes on and just stays on.

Does this mean that whether left or right turn is selected the right comes on? When you use your turn signal and the right light just stays on, do you mean it stays on flashing (and whether you select right or left)? Does the left light lose all power and switches off (I ask because it is an always-on position light)? Does the turn signal indicator on the dash indicate the turn signal has been detected and is flashing?
 
Thanks big bird. Gave the turn signal switch a good workout after spraying with contact cleaner. No cigar, and thanks for the suggestion.
OK. I always start with the simplest solution.
Next I suggest digging into the wiring and look for a broken or disconnected ground somewhere in the affected circuits.
Grounding issues make wonky things happen.
 
I have some questions to ask to try to help you. You said When I activate my flashers, one (front right) comes on and just stays on.

Does this mean that whether left or right turn is selected the right comes on? When you use your turn signal and the right light just stays on, do you mean it stays on flashing (and whether you select right or left)? Does the left light lose all power and switches off (I ask because it is an always-on position light)? Does the turn signal indicator on the dash indicate the turn signal has been detected and is flashing?
HI mzflorida,
Thanks for your response. To clarify:
I was imprecise. When I push in the HAZARD lights, the right one comes on and stays on.
When I select either turn signal, nothing comes on, and the rear tailight and brake light also do not come on, though the headlight comes on.
The turn signal arrows on the dash do not come on when I select either turn signal
 
Each of those lights share a ground at Junction Box G. Maybe inspect and clean that. It’s not easy to access, I think. I believe it is at the front of the bike, below the air cleaner and above the negative battery terminal.
 
Each of those lights share a ground at Junction Box G. Maybe inspect and clean that. It’s not easy to access, I think. I believe it is at the front of the bike, below the air cleaner and above the negative battery terminal.
Might this be a brown plastic box with a cluster of green wires that go into it, visible directly above (like 1/2”) the negative battery terminal?
Thanks,
Phil
 
Could be a bad flasher relay module. That would explain the turn signal issues, but not the brake lights. The module can be found under the left-hand side plastics on the 2013 model. You can either take off the entire left side plastics (this is what the shop manual specifies), or you can take out the top plastic piece that would be removed as if you are replacing the air filter (which I think is easier).

Part number is 38301-MEW-921. Looks like they are ~$10-15 new with shipping, so probably best approach is to just swap it out. Or I have one that is all yours for free (I replaced it with an LED-compatible flasher module). Just PM me an address. I won't be able to ship out until next week, Wednesday or Thursday, as I am away on vacation right now.

RELAY, TURN SIGNAL (MITSUBA)
38301-MEW-921
 
Just to make it easier to diagnose, have you done any electrical mods on the bike recently? LED lights? Even non-related electrical mods?
 
Good suggestion and same offer for a free working relay as my LED flasher is coming next week. And very good point that it could be a combination of coincidental or incidental failures. Relay, and ground or tail assembly.

For the brake light, i would get a volt ohm meter. Don't be intimidated by not having used one. Super simple for what you are trying to accomplish here. I would test the brake first as it is the easiest. Just remove the pillion seat and the brake harness is there. Disconnect the harness.

Put the red probe in the Positive side of the voltmeter.
Put the black probe in the Negative side of the voltmeter.
Switch the meter to ohms Ω
Turn the bike on
Put the red probe in the middle terminal (i think that is tail light)
Put the black probe in the furthest left terminal (that is ground)
Look at the meter
If you are over 5 ohms you have no or a bad ground. If you are under 5 ohms you have a ground.

You can pick up a cheap but functional volt meter at Harbor Freight or Northern Tool for under 10 bucks. THey'll work just fine for what you maybe doing.
 
Good suggestion and same offer for a free working relay as my LED flasher is coming next week. And very good point that it could be a combination of coincidental or incidental failures. Relay, and ground or tail assembly.

For the brake light, i would get a volt ohm meter. Don't be intimidated by not having used one. Super simple for what you are trying to accomplish here. I would test the brake first as it is the easiest. Just remove the pillion seat and the brake harness is there. Disconnect the harness.

Put the red probe in the Positive side of the voltmeter.
Put the black probe in the Negative side of the voltmeter.
Switch the meter to ohms Ω
Turn the bike on
Put the red probe in the middle terminal (i think that is tail light)
Put the black probe in the furthest left terminal (that is ground)
Look at the meter
If you are over 5 ohms you have no or a bad ground. If you are under 5 ohms you have a ground.

You can pick up a cheap but functional volt meter at Harbor Freight or Northern Tool for under 10 bucks. THey'll work just fine for what you maybe doing.
Thanks for staying with this, really appreciate it. Special thanks for the specificity of how to go about using the volt / ohm meter. I will get a meter and get into the bike this weekend as much as I can and let you know the results. I should know by then whether to say yes to your generous offers of the relay.

I have an update and would very much like any input on the way it might confirm or change your thinking. Let me say first that I am a fairly grounded guy, not prone to any kind of psychotic incidents:
So I get up at 6 AM today and go outside, still cool out. I’m standing in my driveway, and turn to look at the back of my car and motorcycle, about fifteen feet away. I’m just standing there wondering about the bike, and I swear this is true, the bike’s emergency flashers flash at me. I was still kind of waking up, so I wasn’t sure it happened, and then about 10 seconds later, it happened again. I run inside, get the key, come out and turn it to the on position. I push the turn signal switch to the RIGHT, and the left turn signal comes on and stays on (does not flash). I push it off and it goes off, I push the turn signal switch to the LEFT, and the RIGHT turn signal comes on and stays on (does not flash). I cycle through this a few more times. Feels like it’s trying to say hello and talk to me, and I can’t quite get the language. I go in, have coffee to get my head straight, come back out, and all is as it was before. The flashers don’t work under any condition, nor do the the turn signals work under any conditions (through the whole event, the rear or brake lights never come on, and as before the headlight is fine).
So does this lean you toward or away from any specific focus?
Again, thanks very much for your participation.
 
Agree with @bigbird. That said, you cannot rule out some other issue. Unsolicited advice but I would disconnect the battery while the bike is unattended. Very unlikely that anything would happen and I tend to be conservative on stuff like this so it could be entirely unnecessary.
 
Thanks for staying with this, really appreciate it. Special thanks for the specificity of how to go about using the volt / ohm meter. I will get a meter and get into the bike this weekend as much as I can and let you know the results. I should know by then whether to say yes to your generous offers of the relay.

I have an update and would very much like any input on the way it might confirm or change your thinking. Let me say first that I am a fairly grounded guy, not prone to any kind of psychotic incidents:
So I get up at 6 AM today and go outside, still cool out. I’m standing in my driveway, and turn to look at the back of my car and motorcycle, about fifteen feet away. I’m just standing there wondering about the bike, and I swear this is true, the bike’s emergency flashers flash at me. I was still kind of waking up, so I wasn’t sure it happened, and then about 10 seconds later, it happened again. I run inside, get the key, come out and turn it to the on position. I push the turn signal switch to the RIGHT, and the left turn signal comes on and stays on (does not flash). I push it off and it goes off, I push the turn signal switch to the LEFT, and the RIGHT turn signal comes on and stays on (does not flash). I cycle through this a few more times. Feels like it’s trying to say hello and talk to me, and I can’t quite get the language. I go in, have coffee to get my head straight, come back out, and all is as it was before. The flashers don’t work under any condition, nor do the the turn signals work under any conditions (through the whole event, the rear or brake lights never come on, and as before the headlight is fine).
So does this lean you toward or away from any specific focus?
Again, thanks very much for your participation.
I forgot something. Using your voltmeter, with the red prong in the tail light position on the connector, take the black lead and place it on a known good ground, like bare metal on the frame. If you get a good reading you’ll know that at least for the tail brake light it is a ground issue.
 
FYI - the stock relay flasher has unswitched power running in to it. This enables the feature where the four-way flashers will stay on if you turn them on, then turn off and remove the key from the bike. (They will not turn on if switched on while the bike is off, if already off). So, the turn signals flashing with the bike completely off could point to grounding or flasher module, still.
 
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