What's the deal with a BMW?

[Afan]

Last weekend I had an opportunity to ride off-road with some dual sport/adventure bikers. All day long, gravel, sand and B roads (you can read it more here). If I remember well it was 12 of us. 1 Tiger 800, 1 KLR, 1 KTM, my Honda and the rest were BMWs, all sizes and shapes, but mostly GSs.
Watching YouTube about RTW / ADVenture riding / Dual sport riding... Most of the riders were on GSs. Couple minutes ago I watched Itchy Boots, Season 3, the episode when she's arriving in Iceland, and her comment, something like "... Lots of GS's everywhere..."
On the road, if it's not a Harley, then it's GS.

Ok, what's the deal with the BMW and GS's? Why are they dominating? (To clarify, I'm talking about the USA. I don't know about Europe, and Asia is Honda, as far as I know...). Are they REALLY so good for ADV/Dual type of riding? Do they really have some advantage over other bikes?

To me they are expensive, costly maintenance, less reliable than any Japanese brand...

Somehow I was thinking all the time it's a "trend", you want to be Ewan and Charlie, they are expensive and you want to be in that group who can afford it, they are cool... I know many of these types of BMW riders. But I also met many riders who really don't want to be "cool", they think Ewan and Charley are just a show, they complain about expensive parts, and costly maintenance. They really bought because they really think it's the best bike currently you can buy...

What am I missing?!?

Sometimes I have a feeling this is the question like PC or Mac, iPhone or Android...

 

[Janus]

Here's a surface history which skims over or outright ignores many developments and history. I swear I saw a better one a year or so ago

A Short History of the Adventure Touring Bike

RideApart looks at the history of the Adventure Touring bike.motorcycle - the genesis of the first bike to wear the name and where we are now.

www.rideapart.com

Here's one which talks more about the R80 G/S which followed the path of Yamaha and Suzuki, but slapped a more recognizable aspect of marketing towards Adventure Bikes, as opposed to Dual Purpose.

Motorcycle History: The Birth of Adventure - BikeBandit.com

www.bikebandit.com

It's definitely a Mac vs PC argument. While PCs are objectively better, Macs are very shiny. BMW has a lot of the same cultural cache. To some, they are tremendously shiny.

Whether or not it deserves it is subjective. I spent a half hour or so on a 800 or 850GS and it seemed alright. I could see riding it in the dirt to be fun. Like the Honda NC7x0X, I wouldn't want to take it into anything serious. Dualsports are much better for that.

 

[melensdad]

To me it is just a successful marketing campaign, combined with a very capable product that sets the BMW GS apart.

• Is the GS the best dirt bike? No. But it is capable of transporting travelers on dirt very very well.
• Is the GS the best road bike for long travels? No. But it is comfortable and capable at transporting riders on highways and byways.
• Is the GS the most technologically advanced bike for riding? Maybe for a production bike, and that certainly offers its own unique set of advantages and disadvantage.
• Is it the most comfortable bike, although subjective, many say it is at the top of comfort rides both on and off roads.
• The questions could go on that ask about capabilities that would put the GS near the top of each list.

So objectively the GS is a very good bike. Seriously capable using some of the best quality parts and pretty much able to go anywhere right off the dealer showroom floor. Not necessarily cheapest to own/ride. Not necessarily best for every condition. But for people who want to travel, or just ride, its certainly one of the best/comfortable/capable options, especially if the ride includes a mixture of anything from dirt to gravel to asphalt.

Take a look at HD and ask if they have the best bikes and I'll argue again that they just have a successful marketing campaign, combined with a very capable product and that is what sets them apart. HD's are big comfortable and capable highway cruisers, certainly more comfortable to take a RoadKing across America than an NC750x, even if the NC has been extensively modified.

Same questions can be asked about the NC7--x bikes. Why are they the best "commuter" bikes? And most of the moto community seems to peg them with that very moniker? They are very easy to ride, in traffic, they have a frunk, but many would prefer a little more power, or a little more wind protection or a little better suspension, or ... But with all the lists of "wish it had" it is still considered "the best" of the commuter bikes.

 

[kebrider]

I rode Japaese brands beginning in 1975. If I could have afforded one at the time I would have bought an R90/S. To me (what did I know, I had only read every motorcycle magazine I could get my hands on from 1972?) the boxer Beemers were the pinnacle of motorcycle design with robust build quality and basic maintenance requirements. Shaft drive was a huge plus after dealing with 70's era chains. Somewhere along the way BMWs stopped being a pinnacle to me and instead became more fussy euro status symbol than a premium brand. Blame the motorcycle press (and then the Internet) maybe but their reputation for durability and reliability began to wane and their reputation for expensive, dealer only service requirements made them less appealing than the typical Japanese bikes. I still loved the boxer design, can't say exactly why, maybe old respect is lasting respect.

What BMWs have always had was excellent road dynamics and full sized ergonomics ( areally big deal to large Americans with big wallets), especially the GS series which is rightfully credited with saving the Marque. What they have now in the Boxer series with the liquid cooled heads may prove to be one of the most durable and reliable BMW motorcycles in history. I'm in my 60's but I still research bikes with the enthusiasm I had in high school but my best info comes from individuals who ride like I do which is averaging between 25 and 30K miles a year. I have probably got feedback from around 15 to 20 high mile Water Boxer owners and I don't here a peep about high cost, high maintenance or poor reliability or durability.

I was so impressed with the owner feedback I bought a 2017 R1200R in 2018 at a great deal and I quickly put 10K miles on it. The power, smoothness and overall refinement is enough to make me never worry about little things like cost and reliability . The electronics have made me comfortable and safe as i play like a kid in the mountains. If you do some research BMW Motorrad has had to update its business model due to the dramatic improvement in build quality and reliability of their current products. We have 2 Beemers in the garage, an S1000XR (wife's bike in the background) and the R1200R and they have been appliance-like as far as maintenance is concerned in a combined 50K miles. They are anything but appliance-like in how they move you through this world.

 

[HarveyM]

Well, most people who ride them love them. I think they're extremely popular in Europe. Even the Iron Butt Rally (the 10,000 + miles in 11 days rally) had more GSs than any other model last year- 16 out of 97 bikes.

 

[Wedders]

Lots of people like German engineering or over engineering. Look at the cars that are so popular like BMW and Mercedes. BTW I’ve had 2 GS’s brilliant bikes but can’t ride them now another story.

 

[Deleted member 5383]

Seems like BMWs in the same displacment range have better stock suspension. They are often among the pioneers for riding aids and niceties too, But for great German engineering they sure have a lot of recalls and stuff that needs to be fixed compared to Honda and Yamaha, etc. Fortunately BMW has platoons of lawyers to fend off class action lawsuits. As a generality I think the Japanese-designed/manufactured stuff is more reliable.

 

[Deleted member 5383]

BMW seems to have read the American "adventure" customer right too, in bigger is better. Only lately has that trend been somewhat balanced by saner alternatives should one actually do a little dirt. I must admit though that the 798cc GS caught my interest at one point.

 

[Afan]

... But for great German engineering they sure have a lot of recalls and stuff that needs to be fixed compared to Honda and Yamaha, etc....
... As a generality I think the Japanese-designed/manufactured stuff is more reliable.

That's how I think too. And I believe, many more think the same way too.
So, back to my question, why then the BMW is leading in ADV riding, RTW, across the country...? Pretty much every Touring company and off-road training schools have only BMW motorcycles in their stables?

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to prove BMW bikes are bad. I REALLY want to know why is this happening. And make 1200GS my goal instead Africa Twin. Or 1200RT instead ST1300...

 

[Deleted member 5383]

Rather than looking at brands, decide what capabilities you want, what compromises have to be made, and go from there? Look at user experiences and not just buy into PR and latest magazine reviews written just after paid junkets upon introduction of This Year's Model (Elvis Costello reference). In spite of the S/N ratio, ADVrider is chock full of goodness, and some online and print publications have done reviews of various machines after many many miles have been racked up on them. Don't buy the hype!

 

[670cc]

Below linked is a 2015 Consumer Reports article on motorcycle brand reliability. Seeing BMW ranking much lower than Japaneses brands echoes my experience from the ‘80s and ‘90s when I did many trips with a friend who rode BMW motorcycles. Seeing all the problems he had with the BMWs vs my Japanese brand motorcycles left me with no interest in ever buying a BMW.

As GB suggested, BMW found a new market with the GS series and they were quite successful.

Who Makes the Most Reliable Motorcycle? - Consumer Reports

What began as a battle of the motorcycle brands, with a decisive ranking to show who makes the most reliable motorcycle, has resulted in a nationalist showdown.

www.consumerreports.org

 

[Deleted member 5383]

I don't think other manufacturers knew how to capitalize on an emerging category/style of bike as well as BMW did until many units had been sold. Honda for instance had some bikes that could have sold in larger numbers had they really understood the marketing. ...Just playing [reverse] Man In The High Castle here.

 

[Deleted member 5383]

Myself, if I was going to get a new over-400 pound bike today, it'd probably be the Yamaha Tenere 700. Don't need a larger engine and plenty of money left over for the needed farkles.

 

[Klap]

In the 90's, I bought my first Airhead , a 1971 BMW R75/5. It was a garage queen, and had sat for 20 years- it had 8800 miles on it. I tore it down, and restored it. Rode it for many years, and loved it. At the time it was built, Japanese bikes could not compete with it's durability , design, and comfort. The build quality was superb, finishes were amazing, and it was a joy to ride. For all that, though, they were expensive, costing twice or more what a similarly sized Jap bike cost. Was it worth it? To some, sure it was.....those who rode long distances, at high speeds loved them!
German metallurgy and engineering was pretty much at it's zenith right then- in fact, some of the early Gold Wings had BMW rear drive units in them, since the Honda folks had trouble building a reliable, light drive unit.
Pretty ironic, considering that a few decades later , riders in the Iron Butt Rally who rode BMW's would carry spare rear drive units due to the poor metallurgy and even poorer engineering.
I guess the answer to "what's up with the BMW's" is they have cachet, they have style, they have all sorts of new electronic gew gaws, and some folks really like all that extraneous stuff. If you can afford a BMW, and all that goes with it, why not?
Personally, I think they lost their way in 1995, when they quit building the Airhead. I know it would not make the cut as far as emissions in Europe goes, but I really miss the quaint , antiquey look of the older Airheads, and that distinctive sound. Would I buy a newer BMW? Not very likely.

 

[dduelin]

2005-2014 model R series boxers are currently inexpensive to buy used and are pretty simple to maintain. Compared to my Goldwing or ST1300, my RT is relatively simple in design with a minimum of service needs. Of course, you can neglect a Honda's maintenance needs completely and more or less get away with it for a long time and a BMW may not be so tolerant of long term neglect. I enjoy working on my motorcycles so a little service time now and then is part of the enjoyment they give me. This would be the same for 1200 Rs, RTs, and GS's of this era.

On a BMW boxer - It's exciting to ride, it's lighter & handles better on stock suspension than it's Japanese counterpart, on the open road it has the gait of a great traveling companion, has a whiff of exclusivity, and a bloodline unbroken for 97 years. This means something or nothing at all.

 

[Wedders]

The good thing about older boxers is they can be fixed at the side of the road with a knife and fork.

 

[Deleted member 5383]

 

[TigerDude]

Last weekend I had an opportunity to ride off-road with some dual sport/adventure bikers. All day long, gravel, sand and B roads (you can read it more here). If I remember well it was 12 of us. 1 Tiger 800, 1 KLR, 1 KTM, my Honda and the rest were BMWs, all sizes and shapes, but mostly GSs.
Watching YouTube about RTW / ADVenture riding / Dual sport riding... Most of the riders were on GSs. Couple minutes ago I watched Itchy Boots, Season 3, the episode when she's arriving in Iceland, and her comment, something like "... Lots of GS's everywhere..."
On the road, if it's not a Harley, then it's GS.

Ok, what's the deal with the BMW and GS's? Why are they dominating? (To clarify, I'm talking about the USA. I don't know about Europe, and Asia is Honda, as far as I know...). Are they REALLY so good for ADV/Dual type of riding? Do they really have some advantage over other bikes?

To me they are expensive, costly maintenance, less reliable than any Japanese brand...

Somehow I was thinking all the time it's a "trend", you want to be Ewan and Charlie, they are expensive and you want to be in that group who can afford it, they are cool... I know many of these types of BMW riders. But I also met many riders who really don't want to be "cool", they think Ewan and Charley are just a show, they complain about expensive parts, and costly maintenance. They really bought because they really think it's the best bike currently you can buy...

What am I missing?!?

Sometimes I have a feeling this is the question like PC or Mac, iPhone or Android...

Pretty sure Ewan & Charlie got BMW's because KLM backed out from giving them bikes.

 

[melensdad]

Pretty sure Ewan & Charlie got BMW's because KLM backed out from giving them bikes.

Yup. Charlie wanted KTM, he pretty much threw a hissy fit on screen because KTM backed out. Ewan, if I recall correctly, favored the BMW but was deferring the choice to Charlie as Charlie had significantly more experience.

 

[Deleted member 5383]

Pretty sure Ewan & Charlie got BMW's because KLM backed out from giving them bikes.

Plus they had a support team to pick 'em up when they fell.