What's the slowest speed you'll shift into sixth?

[lootzyan]

...And what I thought I understood about DCT trans.: "in D mode the trans selects shift points and gets into 6th way too fast and at way too low of rpm, as early as 37 mph. ...

The gear shift points given in the manuals are for a very basic, conservative driving style, ensuring the lowest fuel consumption.
The PCM continuously reads your acceleration or deceleration intentions from throttle position, speed sensor and clock signals and selects gear and shift point accordingly. You can intervene and speed up the PCM responses by manual downshift while still in D mode. Suddenly opening the throttle gives a similar result with a slightly slower response. You choose the method depending on the situation and your preferences. What's cool is no method prevails and you get a sense of comfort from being able to choose.

 

[670cc]

I

Sorry.... I'm just trying to understand the dynamics of the DCT trans. I have no interest in manually shifting it. Trying to get away from that lol. Just want to relax and ride. I'm sure I will be able to find an automatic shift mode among the 4 that pleases me when I finally get to ride it. I'm not that demanding or hard to please, and not that aggressive of a rider anymore. If I feel like shifting I will take out my CB 1100.

Heard complimentary things about the DCT, read moto journo reviews, have watched You tube vids and there is a lot of stuff being said here on the forum that is not in any of those 3 sources of information. So I'm just trying to comprehend it all. Every time I think I have it figured out, someone says something new and different about it I have to absorb.

I understand your curiosity. I have ridden every DCT motorcycle model Honda ever offered, some of them many times. For my own reasons, I don’t like or want a DCT Honda motorcycle. I prefer the manual transmission. However, the Honda DCT works very well. Don’t overthink it. Whatever mode you ride in, the DCT will take care of the shifting duties with no trouble. The engine will never stall, nor hit the redline. You’ll always be able to summon power when you want it. At a stop, it will always return to first gear ready to go. Turn the throttle and enjoy the ride.

 

[hulkss]

Turn the throttle and enjoy the ride.

Yes, that's pretty much it. Leaving a stop I just give it a healthy twist and hold steady to let the bike do its thing until I reach my desired speed, then back off the throttle as needed. Pretty much like how you use the gas pedal in a car.

 

[MZ5]

Ferrett, I think of the modes on the DCT model as equivalent to the "econ," "normal," and "sport" modes in a car with an automatic. They'll all hold a gear longer if you push the pedal further down. There's a difference in how far you have to push the gas pedal to get them to do any particular thing, and there's a difference in how aggressively up-shift at every throttle position short of WOT. There's also a difference in how the modes hold a gear while coasting or simply holding speed briefly.

I strongly dislike Toyota's "eco" mode, for example, with their 8-speed trannies. Actually, I hate ALL their programming for that tranny in the Camry. They do everything badly, but that's not what we're talking about here.

It's all the same, but all different.
(-:

 

[the Ferret]

Since 1965 I've owned 32 street bikes. I've had American made, Japanese made, British made and Italian made. I've owned singles, parallel twins, V twins, triples, inline fours and V fours (and ridden sixes). I've had 2 strokes and 4 strokes. I've had auto CVT, 3 speeds, 4 speeds, 5 speeds and 6 speeds, belly shift, hand shift and foot shift, air cooled, air oil cooled and liquid cooled, I've had chain drives, belt drives and shaft drives. The first automatic motorcycle I rode was in 1976.. a Honda CB 750A. Then in 79 rode a CM 400A. They were different Honda's than todays automatics of course. Then about 2014 I think I rode a CTX700. Now they've had another 7 years to develop it. Thought it might be fun before I quit riding to own a DCT as well and see if they are any good.

I've had a great motorcycle life.

 

[Amwolf]

I have found that the powerband of my 2013 NC700 is between 3000 and 4000 rpm, so I like to keep it in that range. I live in a rural area in the northeast where there are no straight and flat roads, so I don't shift into 6th unless I am going at least 60 mph on a highway. 5th gear keeps it in the power band between 45 and 60 mph, so most of my riding is in 5th gear. I can count on 77-78mpg most of the time. Highway riding in 6th gear gets me about 82mpg.

 

[670cc]

I have found that the powerband of my 2013 NC700 is between 3000 and 4000 rpm, so I like to keep it in that range. I live in a rural area in the northeast where there are no straight and flat roads, so I don't shift into 6th unless I am going at least 60 mph on a highway. 5th gear keeps it in the power band between 45 and 60 mph, so most of my riding is in 5th gear. I can count on 77-78mpg most of the time. Highway riding in 6th gear gets me about 82mpg.

That makes sense for your riding conditions. I’m curious, do you have the stock windscreen, no hand guards, and no luggage? Your fuel economy is good for the riding you descibe. Since added all the accessories to my NC, I can no longer get gas mileage in the 80s on the highway (US gallons).

 

[Bcsmith]

So I don’t really know what speed I shift gears lol. I just shift according to the feel. I definitely do not shift at too low of rpm as I don’t like any kind of lugging ever. Here is something I am not too sure of and hope someone could answer this for me. When downshifting to overtake a car or maybe a steep incline does one need to synchro shift the transmission?

 

[670cc]

So I don’t really know what speed I shift gears lol. I just shift according to the feel. I definitely do not shift at too low of rpm as I don’t like any kind of lugging ever. Here is something I am not too sure of and hope someone could answer this for me. When downshifting to overtake a car or maybe a steep incline does one need to synchro shift the transmission?

Motorcycle transmissions I have used, for as long as I have been riding, employ constant mesh transmissions. There are no syncronizers. But I think the question you are asking is more like, should I “rev match” the engine to the next gear. My answer is yes. If you are down shifting, blip the throttle to bring the engine RPM close to what is needed for the newly engaged lower gear.

 

[Bcsmith]

Motorcycle transmissions I have used, for as long as I have been riding, employ constant mesh transmissions. There are no syncronizers. But I think the question you are asking is more like, should I “rev match” the engine to the next gear. My answer is yes. If you are down shifting, blip the throttle to bring the engine RPM close to what is needed for the newly engaged lower gear.

Thanks 670cc that is exactly what I was asking. I have been doing it always when I am going to crack on it the same as I would in a car as it saves wear in the clutch. I have spoken to other riders who thought it was not necessary.

 

[Bcsmith]

I also found this.

 

[Amwolf]

That makes sense for your riding conditions. I’m curious, do you have the stock windscreen, no hand guards, and no luggage? Your fuel economy is good for the riding you descibe. Since added all the accessories to my NC, I can no longer get gas mileage in the 80s on the highway (US gallons).

I have a Parabellum Windscreen on it now, and a 55L Givi top box on the back, but no hand guards. 82 mpg is the best I have ever gotten, but that was with no luggage on at all. Most of the time its the upper 70s I have a friend with a CTX700 (same engine) who brags about getting 85mpg, but im pretty happy with what I get. Much better than a cruiser, and better than the Triumph Bonneville I replaced with my NC700

 

[Bossenbumsen]

These are listed in my 2015 700x manual.

Have you ever tried shifting like the manual saying, bike is shaking and fe like it going on a washboard. Can’t use my 6. Gear before 90kph if’s bike riding should be a pleasure. But from 90kph it is okay to use it in 6. Gear

 

[76Hawke]

Have you ever tried shifting like the manual saying, bike is shaking and fe like it going on a washboard. Can’t use my 6. Gear before 90kph if’s bike riding should be a pleasure. But from 90kph it is okay to use it in 6. Gear

Like many others here, my shift points have me holding lower gears longer as I accelerate and finding them a bit sooner as I slow.
I tried sticking with recommended shift points, bit it FELT a bit lurchy for my liking and lacked ability to accelerate if needed.

 

[Ambroinaz]

The “D” mode on my 2012 is basically unusable. It lugs and shakes really barley from shifting way too early. I have to ride in “S” or manual. I’m wondering how anyone can ride in D mode?

 

[the Ferret]

Interesting thread that I had forgotten about. When this thread started I had yet to pick up my 21 DCT which happened in the end of June 2021. Since then, I have put nearly 22,000 miles on it in a year and a half (should hit 22K next Mon or Tuesday) and although I have experimented with manual, sport mode and set up a user mode, which the 2021's make available, 100% of the time I just click it into D mode and go. I do ocassionally hit the - paddle to drop it down a gear or two for passing or hills (up or down) but the downshift is temporary as soon as the speed gets high enough it will automatically upshift. I think the DCT trans is brilliant. Does it shift like I would my manual shift CB 1100? Not exactly, but it's pretty close most of the time. Then again I am an easy rider. At 72 yo I have gone thru the flogging them phase many years ago. I am more into perfect apexes and lines than revving and shifting. Carrying speed thru a curve WITHOUT shifting is what thrills me these days.

On my CB when I leave my house there's a downhill left hand sweeper, followed by a short flat, then an uphill sweeper to the right followed by a left/right S curve onto a long flat straight. On my manual clutch CB I take that downhill left in 5th across the flat, and hit 4th for the uphill right. On my DCT in D I take the downhill left in 5th across the flat, I punch the - button for 4th for the uphill but halfway up the hill it shifts to 5th UNLESS I hold a constant speed without accelerating. If I continue to accelerate up the hill in 4th it will automatically upshift to 5th when the DCT trans feels it's appropriate. If I hadn't hit the - paddle it would have carried 5th the whole way until I got to the top of the hill where it shifts to 6th.

On another favorite road that's level with lots of curves, I found there is basically no difference for what gear I'm in between the manual CB and the DCT in D mode. I think one sharper left hand curve the DCT carries 1 gear higher (5th instead of 4th)

I DO think the DCT in D mode get's into 6th a little early most of the time, but it's no biggie to me. I ride every day and I ride a lot of miles, so unlike a lot of motorcyclists that ride maybe on dry sunny weekends, a few thousand miles a year, I am not out to squeeze maximum excitement out of each ride because I rode yesterday, I'm riding today, I'll be riding tomorrow and the day after that and the day after that etc. I also don't think using a clutch is that big of a deal. Having done it for 57 years on street bikes you realize once you've mastered it, it's really nothing special. Mastering perfect lines is more exciting for me.

 

[Ambroinaz]

Interesting thread that I had forgotten about. When this thread started I had yet to pick up my 21 DCT which happened in the end of June 2021. Since then, I have put nearly 22,000 miles on it in a year and a half (should hit 22K next Mon or Tuesday) and although I have experimented with manual, sport mode and set up a user mode, which the 2021's make available, 100% of the time I just click it into D mode and go. I do ocassionally hit the - paddle to drop it down a gear or two for passing or hills (up or down) but the downshift is temporary as soon as the speed gets high enough it will automatically upshift. I think the DCT trans is brilliant. Does it shift like I would my manual shift CB 1100? Not exactly, but it's pretty close most of the time. Then again I am an easy rider. At 72 yo I have gone thru the flogging them phase many years ago. I am more into perfect apexes and lines than revving and shifting. Carrying speed thru a curve WITHOUT shifting is what thrills me these days.

On my CB when I leave my house there's a downhill left hand sweeper, followed by a short flat, then an uphill sweeper to the right followed by a left/right S curve onto a long flat straight. On my manual clutch CB I take that downhill left in 5th across the flat, and hit 4th for the uphill right. On my DCT in D I take the downhill left in 5th across the flat, I punch the - button for 4th for the uphill but halfway up the hill it shifts to 5th UNLESS I hold a constant speed without accelerating. If I continue to accelerate up the hill in 4th it will automatically upshift to 5th when the DCT trans feels it's appropriate. If I hadn't hit the - paddle it would have carried 5th the whole way until I got to the top of the hill where it shifts to 6th.

On another favorite road that's level with lots of curves, I found there is basically no difference for what gear I'm in between the manual CB and the DCT in D mode. I think one sharper left hand curve the DCT carries 1 gear higher (6th instead of 5th)

I DO think the DCT in D mode get's into 6th a little early most of the time, but it's no biggie to me. I ride every day and I ride a lot of miles, so unlike a lot of motorcyclists that ride maybe on dry sunny weekends, a few thousand miles a year, I am not out to squeeze maximum excitement out of each ride because I rode yesterday, I'm riding today, I'll be riding tomorrow and the day after that and the day after that etc. I also don't think using a clutch is that big of a deal. Having done it for 57 years on street bikes you realize once you've mastered it, it's really nothing special. Mastering perfect lines is more exciting for me.

That is good feedback. I am wondering if the generation of DCT on the older 2012 bike just doesn’t have the improvements that have come with the newer model bikes ?

 

[dduelin]

The “D” mode on my 2012 is basically unusable. It lugs and shakes really barley from shifting way too early. I have to ride in “S” or manual. I’m wondering how anyone can ride in D mode?

It’s easy.

 

[TNHoosier]

That is good feedback. I am wondering if the generation of DCT on the older 2012 bike just doesn’t have the improvements that have come with the newer model bikes ?

The newer models have more power which probably helps.

 

[the Ferret]

The newer models have more power which probably helps.

LOL a whopping 4 hp at the crank on a 2016-2020.

7 hp up on a 2012 which is pretty significant percentage wise