Whining noise on decelleration

[SilverRocket]

I just had my first oil change, chain adjustment and a set of new Conti Motion tires (stock sizes) added. On my ride home I noticed what sounded like a transmission whine every time I let off the throttle. No time to go back, as they were closed for the day anyway.

Any thoughts on what might be causing this and what to check?

I'm going to check the chain tension first, of course, but is there something in the DCT transmission that might have been changed, left out, not done?
The bike handles a little differently, which I'm guessing is because of the new tires. They replaced the original stock Dunlops that had almost 5600 miles on them and were squared off, but no wear bars showing.

Thanks,

 

[670cc]

Transmission is not the issue. Sounds the the chain is too tight or loose. I’ll bet it’s tight because that’s what dealers tend to do. The handling difference is due to the new tires.

 

[StratTuner]

possibly time for a new chain and sprockets ??? ....but it's a little early in mileage for that....

 

[potter0o]

using my psychic internet powers I am sensing chain too tight

 

[Rapturee]

Ditto...+1 on the chain being too tight. :{)

 

[SilverRocket]

Yes. It's a tight chain.
While my chain was a tiny bit loose before, now it is too tight- less than a 1/2 inch of slack.
And my owner's manual says "Adjusting the chain requires special tools. Have the drive chain slack adjusted by your dealer."

I may have to switch to a less-convenient dealer for servicing. And I haven't even mentioned the fact that I needed to re-detail my bike today, cleaning off the wheels and the bike which looked like someone had sprayed liquid over half of it. And they used those big blocky wheel weights on the rims.

Any idea what part is causing that whine? Just the chain itself? But why only whining on deceleration?

 

[670cc]

Yes. It's a tight chain.
While my chain was a tiny bit loose before, now it is too tight- less than a 1/2 inch of slack.
And my owner's manual says "Adjusting the chain requires special tools. Have the drive chain slack adjusted by your dealer."

I may have to switch to a less-convenient dealer for servicing. And I haven't even mentioned the fact that I needed to re-detail my bike today, cleaning off the wheels and the bike which looked like someone had sprayed liquid over half of it. And they used those big blocky wheel weights on the rims.

Any idea what part is causing that whine? Just the chain itself? But why only whining on deceleration?

I don’t know what they sprayed on your bike, but I’ve had to specifically tell body shops and dealers NOT to spray any “dressing” on my vehicles. I absolutely hate that practice.

On deceleration, the bottom of the chain is tight because the wheel is driving the transmission instead of transmission driving the wheel. I’m not sure why it whines then, but you’d also have less engine noise to make the chain noise more audible. The chain could also be misaligned, but if you at least loosen it, it should sound better.

Getting on the soap box, your first paragraph illustrates why chain drive is so archaic and why motorcycles with drive chains are not really ready for general transportation use. Cars go 100,000 miles requiring no maintenance or adjustment to the drive system. So Honda is telling us to take the bike to the dealer every couple thousand miles for a chain adjustment? For mechanically inclined owners doing their own work this is marginally tolerable, but for people dependent on a mechanic it’s unnacceptable.

CVT scooter and belt or shaft drive motorcycle owners enjoy lower maintenance requirements. It’s a shame the wondrous DCT is not coupled with belt or shaft drive on the NC.

 

[showkey]

I don’t know what they sprayed on your bike, but I’ve had to specifically tell body shops and dealers NOT to spray any “dressing” on my vehicles. I absolutely hate that practice.

On deceleration, the bottom of the chain is tight because the wheel is driving the transmission instead of transmission driving the wheel. I’m not sure why it whines then, but you’d also have less engine noise to make the chain noise more audible. The chain could also be misaligned, but if you at least loosen it, it should sound better.

Getting on the soap box, your first paragraph illustrates why chain drive is so archaic and why motorcycles with drive chains are not really ready for general transportation use. Cars go 100,000 miles requiring no maintenance or adjustment to the drive system. So Honda is telling us to take the bike to the dealer every couple thousand miles for a chain adjustment? For mechanically inclined owners doing their own work this is marginally tolerable, but for people dependent on a mechanic it’s unnacceptable.

CVT scooter and belt or shaft drive motorcycle owners enjoy lower maintenance requirements. It’s a shame the wondrous DCT is not coupled with belt or shaft drive on the NC.

Agree but the belt is differently NOT the answer..........the shaft is but cost is then the issue.
Over adjustment is part of the problem.......many can adjust every 7000 miles or more.

The dealer over tightening is a sad state of affairs and there is no excuse and the reason is incompetence .

The VFR1200x is prefect example......shaft drive, much better suspension, wire wheels, double the power with 30% less MPG and 50% more in price.......best motorcycle I ever owned and now the NC sits lonely and unused

The NC project could never survive a $1000 price increase. Apparently The VFR did not survive in the US market.

 

[potter0o]

Yes. It's a tight chain.
"Adjusting the chain requires special tools. Have the drive chain slack adjusted by your dealer."

Specialty tools would be two wrenches for the adjusters. Two sockets with handles and a torque wrench. Bonus tool for checking chain alignment. Sorry to hear of your difficulty. Poor dealer service is why some on this forum do their own maintenance. Myself, I do it to try to keep down the cost of ownership (cheap) =)

 

[Red Rider]

Agree but the belt is differently NOT the answer..........the shaft is but cost is then the issue.
Over adjustment is part of the problem.......many can adjust every 7000 miles or more.

The dealer over tightening is a sad state of affairs and there is no excuse and the reason is incompetence .

The VFR1200x is prefect example......shaft drive, much better suspension, wire wheels, double the power with 30% less MPG and 50% more in price.......best motorcycle I ever owned and now the NC sits lonely and unused

The NC project could never survive a $1000 price increase. Apparently The VFR did not survive in the US market.

I agree with both comments regarding build and design but have to emphasize the crux of the problem: The DEALER’S SERVICE DEPARTMENT is woefully at fault here for botching one of the most basic maintenance procedures in all of motorcycling. The OP should at least bring it to the attention of their Service Manager in the hope that they’ll give the shmuck that worked on it some more training. I recently took delivery of a new bike (adding to the fleet - again) and the chain was as tight as a banjo string. This was after “set-up and prep”. NEVER take what a service department does, or SAYS they’re going to do, for granted.

 

[670cc]

Agree but the belt is differently NOT the answer..........the shaft is but cost is then the issue.
Over adjustment is part of the problem.......many can adjust every 7000 miles or more.

The dealer over tightening is a sad state of affairs and there is no excuse and the reason is incompetence .

The VFR1200x is prefect example......shaft drive, much better suspension, wire wheels, double the power with 30% less MPG and 50% more in price.......best motorcycle I ever owned and now the NC sits lonely and unused

The NC project could never survive a $1000 price increase. Apparently The VFR did not survive in the US market.

I guess we are our own enemies when it comes to chain drive. Consumers, myself included, often seek out the lowest price, so Honda builds the low end budget motorcycles with the cheapest, most maintenance intensive drive system. Only when we stop buying chain drive bikes would they go away.

 

[SilverRocket]

So I brought my bike back this morning and the service manager adjusted the chain himself. I still think it's a bit too tight, as it's making a bit of that whine still.
The chain barely sags down, when I press down, but goes up over an inch when I lift it from underneath.

One thing- I usually notice a grabbing effect on my drive train at low speeds. Like when making a 180 turn in the parking garage at low speed or when slowing down at a red light. There's a kind of grabbing/ releasing going on with the DCT.
I didn't notice this when the chain was ultra tight. Maybe I was just too focused on the new noise. Or maybe I just didn't slow down the same way as when I usually experience the grabbing.

As far as a shaft drive, I wouldn't mind the extra cost a bit, but the added weight would really call for a more powerful engine. Then we'd see a big loss in MPG.
I've owned chain-type bikes for 9 years and never thought they were bad. But with the DCT, I think maybe we might want to switch to shaft and more power.
I don't think wire wheels are anything to get excited about... Mine's a street bike!

 

[SilverRocket]

So I just realized I didn't check to see if they inflated my new tires correctly. Of course, the PSI amounts are all right there, on the swing arm. But what are the chances the service person read it? Pretty slim.

I'll let you know later how far off they are. I'm betting they over-inflated.
What do YOU think?

 

[davidc83]

The NC700 is the last bike I will ever buy with a chain-done with it. Cost is not the issue with using shaft drives-heck the 800cc Suzuki C50 Boulevards are shaft drive and don't cost that much more than a NC700. I have a C50 boulevard and the maintenance on the shaft drive is about 10 minutes a year (I put 8,000+ miles on it each year-owned almost 11 years; 89,000+miles on it). Remove top and bottom bolts from hub, drain heavy weight oil, replace bottom bolt, fill with heavy weight oil (about 2 ounces), replace top bolt-done. I do grease the splines on the hub and wheel when I change tires-however, this isn't even part of Suzuki maintenance schedule. I have never removed the shaft and lubed the front of the shaft-not part of Suzuki's maintenance schedule either and if water/dirt/grime gets up in there, you have more issues than a dry drive shaft....


Back to the OP, yes, chain is too tight and only special tools needed are 2 crescent wrenches to loosen (lefty loosie) the chain adjusters, 1 1/16 inch socket and wrench to loosen the axle. Loosen axle, loosen chain adjusters (I do 1/4 to 1/2 turn at a time if chain is tight) and check chain. Remember if on a center stand, going to appear looser than if on side stand (by 1/4 to 1/2 inch). When adjusted to approx. 1" of slack (on side stand or verticle-off center stand), check alignment, tighten axle nut, tighten chain adjusters (be careful to not overtight and they can break) or you can do this process in reverse-tighten adjusters then axle bolt-whatever your preference.

 

[davidc83]

As far as a shaft drive, I wouldn't mind the extra cost a bit, but the added weight would really call for a more powerful engine. Then we'd see a big loss in MPG.
I've owned chain-type bikes for 9 years and never thought they were bad. But with the DCT, I think maybe we might want to switch to shaft and more power.
I don't think wire wheels are anything to get excited about... Mine's a street bike!

My Suzuki C50 Boulevard is shaft drive, weighs 530+ lbs and over 89,000 miles I have averaged between 55-60mpg; the past 2 fuel fill ups averaged 58mpg, mostly Interstate doing 65-70mph average.
It can be done...

 

[davidc83]

So I just realized I didn't check to see if they inflated my new tires correctly. Of course, the PSI amounts are all right there, on the swing arm. But what are the chances the service person read it? Pretty slim.

I'll let you know later how far off they are. I'm betting they over-inflated.
What do YOU think?

I bet they under-inflated, for some reason, dealers around here like to put tires at 32Lb... (even the car dealerships, even when I tell them to inflate to 40lb psi)

 

[showkey]

There is no question it can be done.......Honda did it with the NT700. Great bike......Added luggage too, better brakes, better wind protection etc.......but it did not sell well in the US market. Most likely failed because of $$$$$ price and small displacement ??????

 

[SilverRocket]

I was surprised. Not because the tires were inflated to the specs stamped right there on the swingarm. But because, yes, david, you are right. They underinflated-32F and 39 R.

You'd think at $125 an hour they could at least get the PSI correct...
I'll be asking for a discount on the next service, should I take it back to that dealership.
It's a shame because they are just one block away from my work. I drop the bike off in the morning and pick it up on my lunch hour.

 

[davidc83]

I was surprised. Not because the tires were inflated to the specs stamped right there on the swingarm. But because, yes, david, you are right. They underinflated-32F and 39 R.

You'd think at $125 an hour they could at least get the PSI correct...
I'll be asking for a discount on the next service, should I take it back to that dealership.
It's a shame because they are just one block away from my work. I drop the bike off in the morning and pick it up on my lunch hour.

Remember one thing though, those pressures stamped on the swingarm are the max psi for the max load (a little over 400Lbs for rider/pinion and anything carried).....32 and 39 are not bad psi for the tires, even though 32 on front is going to be kinda soft. I run about 35-38psi for both (cold) cause I am never ever close to max load (I weigh around 200lbs, never carry more than 50 lbs load and never ride with a pinion...)

 

[SilverRocket]

I took my bike back in for service on the chain. The whine is just too loud and it just has been bothering me that the noise all started when they serviced the chain.
When I let off the throttle on the freeway it almost sounds like the noise 18 wheelers make when they let off the gas on the highway. I don't really notice this at city speeds.
The service manager said it was totally in spec, but then they had a different mechanic do the test ride.
I had them loosen it an extra 1/4 inch but the noise is still there.

I cleaned my chain the other day. The kind of job that takes about 45 minutes- using chain cleaner, a grunge brush, toothbrush, microfiber towel, and even cleaning the black dried lube off of both sides of the rear sprocket. The I warmed it up and applied chain wax. No issues with the chain, no soft or weak spots.

Now I'm wondering if having new tires on the bike might have something to do with it. Could the thicker new tires change the drive ratio enough to cause something like this?