Question Does anybody know how the coupled brake system works on the later model NC's ?

[Dan German]

Yes, I was a mechanic and had 10 bikes. Just wondering why Honda says it has coupled brakes. Yes, it is a '23.

I am curious where the statement that it has Combined ABS comes from. The current Honda Powersports website does not mention combined or linked brakes. Is it in sales literature? Or being claimed by salesmen? (My gut feeling is that it is the latter; as uninformative as Honda’s website info occasionally is, salesmen can get some weird stuff stuck in their heads. I know, I work for a Honda dealership…)

 

[670cc]

Yes, I was a mechanic and had 10 bikes. Just wondering why Honda says it has coupled brakes. Yes, it is a '23.

As I cautioned before, watch out for the marketing wording. I am not aware that Honda ever called them ”coupled brakes”. For the 2022 model, Honda uses the term “ Disk Brakes With Combined ABS“. So what does that mean, that the brakes are combined, or the ABS is combined? I don’t know, but perhaps through the ABS module, there is some interconnection between front and rear brake systems? Or, maybe it’s just word play. Best not to guess. I suggest, since you’re so curious, that you inspect the hardware on your own bike, or get a hold of the Honda service manual and read the technical descriptions and diagrams for the brake system.



American Honda is still having trouble building their web sites. See screen shot:

 

[750dct]

Linked, combined, coupled, whatever you want to call it, they say above that they are linked on the later models but don't say how so I will just chalk it up as a mystery.

 

[670cc]

Yes, I was a mechanic and had 10 bikes. Just wondering why Honda says it has coupled brakes. Yes, it is a '23.

Linked, combined, coupled, whatever you want to call it, they say above that they are linked on the later models but don't say how so I will just chalk it up as a mystery.

If you have a mechanic background, why don’t you just use your skills, do the testing and/or research work, consult any available technical publications, and solve your mystery?

 

[the Ferret]

when I was researching buying my 2021 they also claimed it had self-cancelling turn signals and a flashing emergency brake light which models coming to the US did not receive. Sometimes the specs are different for different countries. I assume Europe or Japan got the self-cancelling turn signals and emergency flashing rear light because they are not on my bike.

 

[Edgrew]

My UK 2022 NC750 DCT has no self-cancelling turn signals. I think it may have flashing indicator lights when braking hard but I am not in the habit of braking hard unless I have to.
I think they may have done it once but I was too busy avoiding things to take much notice.
I found this quote on Google. "The 2021 Honda NC 750 X motorcycle has a feature I have not come across before. When travelling above 33 mph, if you brake hard (at or more than 6 M/Sec2), the hazard lights will automatically come on to warn following traffic of your "hard stop"

 

[Edgrew]

Just had a browse through my Owners Manual and found this on page 95.

 

[dduelin]

On your bike (21-23 750 DCT right?) its a simple single front disc brake, operated by hydraulic pressure. You squeeze the brake lever and fluid contained in a reservoir on the handlebars is forced thru a hose and pushes out two pistons which squeeze the spinning disc attached to the front hub until the wheel quits spinning.

Same procedure on the rear when you press the rear brake pedal, only there's a single piston caliper on the rear.

The two brakes are not connected. Each one works independently of the other.

The system has been around on street bikes since 1968.

There is no mystery to this simple system.

Other models have more complicated linked systems with extra hoses, pistons and proportioning valves, to make extra braking power, or more even braking pressure but they were not used on later model NCs, like yours and mine.

Does that help?

If you have a center stand can you determine if the applied rear brake applied stops the front wheel like the 2012-2013 does? Or if the front brake stops the rear wheel. 670cc asked the same thing in #11.

 

[750dct]

If you have a mechanic background, why don’t you just use your skills, do the testing and/or research work, consult any available technical publications, and solve your mystery?

I don't have the stand or the time to mess with it. I just thought maybe there was a positive answer in here. It's OK

 

[the Ferret]

Well, I just did the experiment for you with the help of 3 of my grandkids (11, 8 and 6).

I put my NC on the center stand and had one of the kids spin the rear wheel while I squeezed the front brake lever.

Nada, the wheel continues spinning freely.

Then they spun the rear wheel while I applied the rear brake pedal.

The rear wheel immediately locked up.

Then I had one kid sit on the passenger seat, while another held down on the rear rack, suspending the front wheel.

The third spun the front wheel while I applied the rear brake pedal.

Nada, the wheel continued to spin freely.

They then spun the front wheel while I applied the front brake lever and the front wheel immediately locked up.

Result:

On the 21-23 model NC 750X DCT's the brakes are not linked. The rear brake pedal has no influence on the front wheel, and the front brake lever has no influence of the rear wheel.

The front brake lever operates the front brake.

The rear brake pedal operates the rear brake

The kids said it was actually fun conducting the "experiment" lol

 

[the Ferret]

Just had a browse through my Owners Manual and found this on page 95.

View attachment 53394

That's the emergency braking flash I was talking about in post #25 that we didn't get here in the states on the 21 models, even though it was advertised as having such in early literature and reviews

 

[670cc]

I put my NC on the center stand and had one of the kids spin the rear wheel while I squeezed the front brake lever.

Nada, the wheel continues spinning freely.

Then they spun the rear wheel while I applied the rear brake pedal.

The rear wheel immediately locked up.

Then I had one kid sit on the passenger seat, while another held down on the rear rack, suspending the front wheel.

The third spun the front wheel while I applied the rear brake pedal.

Nada, the wheel continued to spin freely.

They then spun the front wheel while I applied the front brake lever and the front wheel immediately locked up.

Result:

On the 21-23 model NC 750X DCT's the brakes are not linked. The rear brake pedal has no influence on the front wheel, and the front brake lever has no influence of the rear wheel.

The front brake lever operates the front brake.

The rear brake pedal operates the rear brake

The kids said it was actually fun conducting the "experiment" lol

Thank you for taking the time to do this. I will refer people to your post when this topic comes up again.

 

[lootzyan]

In the first generation NC700, the link between the rear brake and front brake was made possible by the use of Proportional Control Valve and Delay Valve. For this to happen, the ABS system did not have to be activated, so its functioning could be checked with the motorcycle on the center stand. Today I think that Honda incorrectly called this concept Combined ABS. This was abandoned by Honda 10 years ago.
At the same time, Honda had a new braking system, Electronically Controlled Combined ABS. Everything was in the ABS module - control valves, fluid pumps. If I remember correctly, it was used in superbikes - CBR600RR etc.
I only have a fragment of the description from a Honda technical bulletin from 8 years ago:
"Electronically Controlled Combined ABS allows riders to apply precise rear-wheel braking with the foot pedal. Application of the rear brake does not result in immediate front brake activation unless rear-wheel lockup is sensed, allowing an experienced rider to use the rear brake like a traditional non-linked unit during spirited riding such as track days for outstanding speed, suspension and steering control."
The link to Honda's website with this information no longer works:
Honda Worldwide | Motorcycle Picture Book | Electronically Controlled Combined ABS

Honda Motor Co.,Ltd.｜Honda Global Corporate Website

Visit Honda’s official corporate website for company details including sustainability, investor relations, newsroom, and employment opportunities.

redirect.viglink.com

Today, the new CBR600RR model also uses Electronic Combined ABS - no description. The new CBR1000RR uses Gyro-assisted ABS (?)
Many other Honda motorcycles simply have ABS in their option description.

 

[750dct]

Well, I just did the experiment for you with the help of 3 of my grandkids (11, 8 and 6).

I put my NC on the center stand and had one of the kids spin the rear wheel while I squeezed the front brake lever.

Nada, the wheel continues spinning freely.

Then they spun the rear wheel while I applied the rear brake pedal.

The rear wheel immediately locked up.

Then I had one kid sit on the passenger seat, while another held down on the rear rack, suspending the front wheel.

The third spun the front wheel while I applied the rear brake pedal.

Nada, the wheel continued to spin freely.

They then spun the front wheel while I applied the front brake lever and the front wheel immediately locked up.

Result:

On the 21-23 model NC 750X DCT's the brakes are not linked. The rear brake pedal has no influence on the front wheel, and the front brake lever has no influence of the rear wheel.

The front brake lever operates the front brake.

The rear brake pedal operates the rear brake

The kids said it was actually fun conducting the "experiment" lol

Thanks for doing that. Now I am wondering why my manual says they are linked. Maybe just the ABS.

 

[750dct]

That's the emergency braking flash I was talking about in post #25 that we didn't get here in the states on the 21 models, even though it was advertised as having such in early literature and reviews

I

when I was researching buying my 2021 they also claimed it had self-cancelling turn signals and a flashing emergency brake light which models coming to the US did not receive. Sometimes the specs are different for different countries. I assume Europe or Japan got the self-cancelling turn signals and emergency flashing rear light because they are not on my bike.

Ya, we got rooked, I would like to have both those features. In some countries stepping on the brake harder makes the taillights brighter.

 

[the Ferret]

I certainly would have appreciated the brake flasher thingy. I always worry about people seeing that little brake light under my luggage rack and tail pack

 

[Dan German]

Thanks for doing that. Now I am wondering why my manual says they are linked. Maybe just the ABS.

Powersports business is a bit slower this time of year, so I wasted a fair bit of my downtime today digging through Honda microfiche. The “Combined ABS” (which is a linked-brake system, the ABS is not interconnected) was early years only. Why Honda still claims it for the NC is beyond me. I am using the Canadian fiche, but I don’t think the US even had regular ABS on the NC until later, and only on the DCT if I read things correctly. Yes, there were CBs that used a different linked system, but for NCs and Wings, it basically comes down to what was alluded to earlier in the thread; two piston front caliper, no linked brake, three piston caliper, linked. I am quite happy to have a 2012 manual NC with C-ABS.

 

[Oboedave]

Yes, I was a mechanic and had 10 bikes. Just wondering why Honda says it has coupled brakes. Yes, it is a '23.

Early promotional material for the updated 2021 model promised linked Brakes, self cancelling turn signals and rear hazard lights that flashed under hard breaking. Those things didn’t make it to the production bikes at least in the US.

 

[Itdoesn'taddup]

I remember seeing a diagram on the Honda website that suggested that the brakes were electronically linked through the ABS modulator.

 

[dduelin]

In the first generation NC700, the link between the rear brake and front brake was made possible by the use of Proportional Control Valve and Delay Valve. For this to happen, the ABS system did not have to be activated, so its functioning could be checked with the motorcycle on the center stand. Today I think that Honda incorrectly called this concept Combined ABS. This was abandoned by Honda 10 years ago.
At the same time, Honda had a new braking system, Electronically Controlled Combined ABS. Everything was in the ABS module - control valves, fluid pumps. If I remember correctly, it was used in superbikes - CBR600RR etc.
I only have a fragment of the description from a Honda technical bulletin from 8 years ago:
"Electronically Controlled Combined ABS allows riders to apply precise rear-wheel braking with the foot pedal. Application of the rear brake does not result in immediate front brake activation unless rear-wheel lockup is sensed, allowing an experienced rider to use the rear brake like a traditional non-linked unit during spirited riding such as track days for outstanding speed, suspension and steering control."
The link to Honda's website with this information no longer works:
Honda Worldwide | Motorcycle Picture Book | Electronically Controlled Combined ABS

Honda Motor Co.,Ltd.｜Honda Global Corporate Website

Visit Honda’s official corporate website for company details including sustainability, investor relations, newsroom, and employment opportunities.

redirect.viglink.com

Today, the new CBR600RR model also uses Electronic Combined ABS - no description. The new CBR1000RR uses Gyro-assisted ABS (?)
Many other Honda motorcycles simply have ABS in their option description.

Honda Global | advanced-brake

At the beginning of the 1990’s, when engine power was the vogue for every sports bike, one sports bike with a brand new concept, “allowing anyone to savor the joy of riding,” was born. It was the CBR900RR, or “Fireblade” in Europe. The concept was accepted by many bike-lovers, changed the...

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