Anyone considered tire cost yet?

[670cc]

All this talk about low fuel use is great. But unfortunately, when comparing operating costs of a motorcycle vs a 4 wheeler, you've got to consider the enormous disadvantage in tire life and cost that the motorcycle must bear. I remember back in the late 90's I was riding and occupying my brain with math, and determined that on the bike I was riding (ST1100), the tires cost the same per mile as the fuel.

I realize saving money is not why we ride, but unfortunately it's not all free.

Do we have any tire life data yet on the stock Bridgestone or Metzeler tires?

Greg

 

[turbodieseli4i6]

I Bought a Michelin Commander ii for my Goldwing not to long ago, its supposed to last 24,000 miles. About twice as much as most tires.
This is the closest one I have found and will need to research a little more. Michelin Commander II 160/70B17 Rear Tire | 534-987 | J&P Cycles

 

[Beemerphile]

I have done the same research and find that the good mileage choices are sized in 160/70-17 and not 160/60-17. My choice is the Metzeler Marathon 880 B designation which was OEM for the BMW K1200LT motorcycle. There is a matching 120/70-17B that is properly sized for the NC. In order to use this rear tire or the Michelin Commander, you would have to deal with the difference in rolling diameter. The rolling diameter will increase by 3/4" from 11-3/4" to 12-1/2". This would be about 19mm for our metric buds. To correct the ride height, lowering links could be used on the rear shocks. I have found a 15mm lowering link on Web!ike. That is probably close enough. The difference in gearing from the taller tire could be made by up-sizing the rear sprocket. On my manual trans model with a 43 tooth rear, it would take a 46 tooth rear to regain the original gearing. This would also entail a new chain with 116 links instead of 114. A similar calculation would be done for the 39 tooth sprocket on the DCT model to arrive at the new gearing for it. Probably the DCT guys could use a takeoff chain and sprocket from a base model bike. I would not go to a smaller front sprocket instead, even though it saves the cost of a chain, because smaller front sprockets increase chain wear.

With these tires on my BMW, the front tire made the entire trip from Georgia to Prudhoe Bay Alaska and up the Dempster Highway to Northwest Territories and back home to Georgia and it still has life left. The rear didn't do as well, but the new one I installed in Anchorage Alaska is still in fine shape. Alaska and the Yukon are horrible on tires with the chip seal pavement and the number of unpaved roads. The trip was 13,200 miles and about 2,000 of it was unpaved.

I will definitely take this on once the tires are spent. I may put another set or two of stock size tires on it until the original chain is spent as well. But eventually it will happen. It will make my stocking easier to run the same tires on both motorcycles. I do my own tire changes and keep an extra set around.

ETA: One benefit of the Marathon 880 B set is that there is a correct size matching front available. I did not find this for the Michelin.

 

[turbodieseli4i6]

I like the fact that your very thorough. When I'm closer too buying tires I will read a lot more on this subject. Thanks again bemmerphile!

 

[670cc]

My choice is the Metzeler Marathon 880 B

You and turbodieseli4i6 mentioned tires that I suspect are bias ply types. Is that so, and is it acceptable to mount them on these NC700X rims?

Greg

 

[Beemerphile]

You and turbodieseli4i6 mentioned tires that I suspect are bias ply types. Is that so, and is it acceptable to mount them on these NC700X rims?

Greg

They are indeed bias ply tires, but there is no difference in the bead construction between the two. I did have to drop the rear suspension one inch to compensate for the height. I did not change the gearing. On my BMW, which uses the same sizes, I have run Metzeler Z8 radials, Michelin Pilot Roads, Continental RoadAttacks, ME880 Marathon radials, and finally ME880 Marathon bias tires. I was expecting a rather large drop-off in performance, but I didn't see it. They certainly weren't Pilot Roads in the corners, but they were quite adequate. I could still comfortably lean the bike until hard parts scrubbed mightily. The carcass is so heavy that I believe it is what saved me from shale cuts on the harsh Dempster Highway in Canada. I replaced my worn Metzeler 880B with a new Dunlop D407 and had two flats within 100 miles on the Dempster. I took the Dunlop off after 300 miles and put the worn-out Metzeler back on. I rode it over the Top of the World Highway from Dawson City, Yukon to Tok, Alaska and on down to Anchorage where I got a new 880B. I rode the new one up to Prudhoe Bay and all the way back to Georgia. These tires are the bomb.

The Alaska trip was at least 50% rain riding, good roads, bad roads, no roads. Here is it at Prudhoe Bay after 400 miles of muck...



Seen here with the worn-out Metzeler loaded as a spare before the Dempster run; fixing the first of two flats with the new Dunlop; and finally back in Dawson City exchanging the new Dunlop for the old Metzeler...



The new Metzeler 880B installed in Anchorage...



There are two road crossings of the Arctic Circle in North America. This tire did both of them...

 

[Beemerphile]

There is one detail to confirm RE: the 880B rear, and that is whether there is sufficient wheelwell clearance at full suspension compression - both with and without the lowering links. I have a spare 880B and I have the 15mm lowering links on order from Web!ke. When the first tire is spent, I will test mount the 880B and test the clearance both with and without the -15mm links installed and will report back to the hive. If the tire works well enough I may go ahead and run it without the gearing adjustment until a new chain is needed.

 

[Hitandrun]

I have been running Shinko 009 Raven tires for years and they work great. Good grip in all conditions, good mileage, and great price. I first used them on my FJR1300 and the VFR800 I had after. I recently bought a 2001 Blackbird, and it uses the same size as both the previous bikes. I have a set on the shelf for it when needed. I will get a set for the NCX, too. Current price is $180 delivered for the pair to fit the NCX. I mount and balance them myself, and have been very happy with all aspects of these tires.

 

[dduelin]

The 880 is a brick hard numbster in radial construction, I can't possibly imagine riding a bias ply version on a bike as fun to ride as the NC700 in the name of saving money. For Pete's sake buy an econobox 4 wheeler if saving money means that much to you.

 

[Beemerphile]

The 880 is a brick hard numbster in radial construction, I can't possibly imagine riding a bias ply version on a bike as fun to ride as the NC700 in the name of saving money. For Pete's sake buy an econobox 4 wheeler if saving money means that much to you.

It is more than saving money Dave. On a long ride, it is a pain to leave with brand new tires and have to schedule a tire change on the road. It is also nice to have the peace of mind that the tire won't get holed easily. They are firmer and heavier for sure. My bike will have suspension changes to improve compliance. The budget suspension does more to cause ride harshness than the tires. My BMW with Wilbers suspension rode quite well with the 880-B's and I don't recall ever thinking I was riding on bricks. The BMW K1200LT's that I have ridden with these tires were plush as well with the tires inflated over 50 psi. To me, using soft sidewall tires to correct a bad suspension is like wearing padded shorts to correct a bad seat.

Everyone has different uses for the bikes, and that is one reason that one solution does not fit all riders. Likewise, every modification is not for every rider. But you err to conclude that viewing a modification through your use of the motorcycle negates its value to a different rider who uses the motorcycle in a different way. Happily, we are each free to choose what to embrace and what to pass up. Everyone has their own set of economics as well. I don't think anyone is here because they have found no cheaper way to get to work. But economics will cause some to seek out less expensive tires like the Shinkos and some to try to fit something with a different construction like the 880's. The sporting guys can put race rubber on it and change them every 2,000 miles. Since it hasn't been done yet, it is an experiment and I may end up with the proverbial arrow in my chest. Well not really, I'll just unmount it and put it on my BMW where I have confirmed it as an improvement. If it destroys the fun of riding the bike I will be back and report it to be so. But you can't tell how deep a mudhole is from the top. You have to step in.

 

[Beemerphile]

And for a different use, here is a different option just released in the 120/70-17 size. They have a 150/70-17 rear that should work...

Continental Twinduro TKC80 Dual Sport Tires - RevZilla

 

[670cc]

The Alaska trip was at least 50% rain riding, good roads, bad roads, no roads.

Awesome info on the Alaska ride there, beemerphile. I'm planning on my first motorcycle trip to Alaska next summer, but I plan to ride as much of the pavement as possible on a Goldwing. Prudhoe Bay would be another trip on a different bike.

Greg

 

[Beemerphile]

Awesome info on the Alaska ride there, beemerphile. I'm planning on my first motorcycle trip to Alaska next summer, but I plan to ride as much of the pavement as possible on a Goldwing. Prudhoe Bay would be another trip on a different bike.


Greg

If you do, don't ferry the bike up and back. The roads and scenery in British Columbia are every bit as good or maybe better.

 

[dduelin]

Lee,

I agree we are entitled to our opinions and I have voiced mine. The bias 880 is an ill handling brick and if you need to add $2000 in suspension upgrades to make it less brick-like then you can do it and you won't have to justify it to anyone.

 

[Beemerphile]

Lee,

I agree we are entitled to our opinions and I have voiced mine. The bias 880 is an ill handling brick and if you need to add $2000 in suspension upgrades to make it less brick-like then you can do it and you won't have to justify it to anyone.

Voicing your own opinion is different than attempting to discredit someone else's. I would point to your hyperbole above as indicative. The suspension changes I plan are about half that cost and are not being considered solely to make the 880's less brick-like. I may not even settle on them, I said I was going to try them and that I had good experiences with them on another bike. I could choose the TKC80's or Pilot Roads. It is all under consideration. All my bikes are used on unimproved roads and for long distance travel. I am not trying to talk you into anything and I expect that you will make the right decision for you and the way you ride. Peace. Out.

 

[gpd211]

You mention the pilot roads. Are you talking about the originals or the pilot road 2 (PR2) or even the new pilot road 3 (PR3). I have never used the original but have used many many sets of the PR2 They are a dual compound tire (center is harder rubber than the sides). They wear like iron in the center but offer great traction when leaned over. From the reading i have done on sport tires I'm getting 10k+ out of a rear PR2 where I would be under 3k on a true sport tire.

These are available in the stock size (front and rear) for the NC and I will be mounting them as soon as the stock POS tires are trash

 

[duk2n]

From the reading i have done on sport tires I'm getting 10k+ out of a rear PR2

Very good mileage for a rear tyre, IMHO. Please let us know how it goes if you mount them.

Here at Spain I got my NCX with Metzelers from stock. My odometer counts 6,000 km (about 3,750 miles), I must admit most of the time with passenger and about 2k miles with passenger and luggage but the rear tyre begins to be squared in the tyre tread, so I don't know if it will reach the schedulled service maintenance without being replaced

 

[Beemerphile]

You mention the pilot roads. Are you talking about the originals or the pilot road 2 (PR2) or even the new pilot road 3 (PR3). I have never used the original but have used many many sets of the PR2 They are a dual compound tire (center is harder rubber than the sides). They wear like iron in the center but offer great traction when leaned over. From the reading i have done on sport tires I'm getting 10k+ out of a rear PR2 where I would be under 3k on a true sport tire.

These are available in the stock size (front and rear) for the NC and I will be mounting them as soon as the stock POS tires are trash

I was using the Pilot Roads on my BMW before I took the Alaska trip on the Metz 880's. On the BMW I averaged about 8,000 miles per set on PR2's. They are my favorite sport tire for mileage + performance. I did not like the feel of the original Pilot Roads and have not tried the PR3's. In this picture, you can see a mounted set of new PR2's for my BMW over the door to my compressor room. Now that the Alaska trip is done I may re-mission the bike away from ultra long-distance rides. I have removed the auxiliary fuel tank and may raise the rear and go back to sport tires on it. I am undecided, however, I change things around a lot and whatever I do next probably won't be "final". The Pilot Road 2's are also under consideration for the NC. Every bike seems to have a "favorite" tire and I usually try some different things (like an ice cream shoppe) to see what I like best.

 

[dduelin]

Voicing your own opinion is different than attempting to discredit someone else's. I would point to your hyperbole above as indicative. The suspension changes I plan are about half that cost and are not being considered solely to make the 880's less brick-like. I may not even settle on them, I said I was going to try them and that I had good experiences with them on another bike. I could choose the TKC80's or Pilot Roads. It is all under consideration. All my bikes are used on unimproved roads and for long distance travel. I am not trying to talk you into anything and I expect that you will make the right decision for you and the way you ride. Peace. Out.

Lee,

The hyperbole isn't in it - I referred to your supporting point of they weren't brick hard with "wilburs on my BMW". If you didn't spend $2000 on that upgrade it was very close.

Moving on, my opinion on Pilot Roads is a mixed bag and all on an ST1300 which may or may not apply on the X. I did not like the original PRs and PR2s due to noise, numb turn-in, and wear issues. I ran one set of originals and two sets of PR2s. The noise they make is well known and on some bikes they wear very lumpy although they do go the distance. I got roughly 50% more mileage than than any previous sport tour tire I tried on my ST. (Bridgestone 020 and 023, Metzeler Z6, Avon Storms) Many like the PR2s but I am not one of them. However, I really like the 3s. For me, they wear very symmetrically and remain quiet to the wear bars while giving at least 10% more mileage (over 10,000 miles on a rear). The wet weather grip is a bonus. I've run three rears and one front 3.

Honda went budget in many areas on the X but the OEM tires aren't that bad. Mine came with Metzeler Z8s which the German rag Motorrad ranked over the PR3s in a comprehensive test. Those are big shoes to fill. I was hoping the lighter weight and low power output of the X would bode well for long tire wear on modern grippy sport tour rubber. We will see. My rear Z8 is showing 5/32" depth after nearly 4000 miles.

 

[Rocker66]

I use the PR3s on my Crossrunner and to my way of thinking they are the best tyres I have used especially in the UK's mixed climate. I have the Bridgestones on the NC and think that I shall fit the same when these wear out. One reason for this is that some people have had clearence problems with the Ermax hugger when other brands such as the Metzeler are fitted