Extreme Farkling - Whoa Nellie!

[Beemerphile]

Not willing that the ABS crowd should have 3-piston calipers when I pnly have two, I ordered an ABS front caliper and pads. The only difference is that the Mark 1 model human being is going to be in charge of all three pots instead of a satellite link to an engineer in Japan who determines if you are about to bust your ass if you squeeze any harder. The first step is to 86 the old system. Always fun and easy....



Next, the ABS caliper was installed along with two Goodridge universal hoses with 15 degree banjos...



Then the original banjo bolt was replaced with a double banjo in order to connect the two hoses to the single master cylinder...



Then it is fill the system and burp out all the air. I was not satisfied with how the hose routing went. In order to make sure I didn't end up with hoses that were too short, I ended up with hoses that are too long. It is amazing how inflexible that flexible hoses can be. I will probably do the hoses over with shorter hose, but for now, it will work until I can get some different ones.

 

[duk2n]

Another fine job

I was not satisfied with how the hose routing went

Different animal, but let me know if you want detailed pictures on how the hoses are routed in the ABS model. Can't see it in your pictures, I don't know if you're using the hose support that the ABS model has over the front fender.

ITOH, I don't know why I was thinking you would "link" the two banjos near the caliper to end with one hose in the master cylinder. It would be interesting to know why do you prefer your method. Also, are you using metalic hoses? I found they are more flexible and to my taste they have more tact than rubber ones.

Not sure if "metalic hose" is the word... I mean these ones:

Maybe your's are these too, but with a rubber boot

 

[Cutter J. Duke]

Now this is Farkling I can get behind. I do have a couple of questions. Why not split the line at the caliper, I've seen it done on something and I have racked my brain trying to remember what it was, but can't...I think even a simple loop of the correct I.D. metal line would be great, use a coat hanger to set a nice bend then match it with the metal line. Also I guess there is no difference in the master cylinder between the two units. I used to work in hydraulics and it doesn't take much to change the whole system, a few hundreds of an inch in an orifice makes a huge difference in volumes and pressures. I don't have a service manual so I'll have to concede parts knowledge to those of you that do.

duk2n, We usally just call them "braided lines" or metal braided lines.

 

[Beemerphile]

let me know if you want detailed pictures on how the hoses are routed in the ABS model.

Yes, I would appreciate that.

Now this is Farkling I can get behind. I do have a couple of questions. Why not split the line at the caliper, I've seen it done on something and I have racked my brain trying to remember what it was, but can't...I think even a simple loop of the correct I.D. metal line would be great, use a coat hanger to set a nice bend then match it with the metal line. Also I guess there is no difference in the master cylinder between the two units. I used to work in hydraulics and it doesn't take much to change the whole system, a few hundreds of an inch in an orifice makes a huge difference in volumes and pressures. I don't have a service manual so I'll have to concede parts knowledge to those of you that do.

I am open to doing it a different way. As I said, I was not at all happy with my piping result. Since each end has its own bleed valve, I was certain that I could get the lines well bled if piped in this manner. I also could not find a short enough jumper hose that it did not look silly as hell. Cutter, I have some tube bending equipment (springs and radius guides) but I didn't know how to rig banjo ends on a custom tube. Can you help me with that?

Regarding the hoses I used, they are vinyl covered metal flex hoses. Not the highest in quality, but I had the sneaking suspicion that I was not going to be satisfied with my first attempt. This is something I don't do well for some reason. So yes, critique and help are both appreciated. Once I confirm the result from a performance perspective, I will want to neaten it up. If it turns out to be a bad idea, I will admit that as well. All of my stuff doesn't turn out to be an improvement worth the effort, but most of it does.

 

[duk2n]

duk2n, We usally just call them "braided lines" or metal braided lines.

Many thanks, I hope I will end improving my english!

 

[duk2n]

Yes, I would appreciate that.

Here you go:

Glad to help

If you need something more specific, please let me know

 

[Beemerphile]

If you need something more specific, please let me know

gracias José. Voy a esperar para Cutter J. Duke a ver lo de la tubería

 

[duk2n]

This is what I was trying to explain:

 

[duk2n]

gracias José. Voy a esperar para Cutter J. Duke a ver lo de la tubería

Well, now this is an international forum!

 

[Cutter J. Duke]

I'm no computer wiz but I'll try to do this with multiple pictures so you can see what I'm speaking of. The first way would be if you use the crimp style connectors and it would be the hardest, (isn't this EXTREME farkling). you would need metal line that has the same I.D. as the O.D. of the internal spike of the fitting, the lines wall thickness will never match the rubber hose thickness but you need a thick walled tube because you would insert the metal line over the spike then fill the space between the line and the fitting with a fill braze, after brazing the ends on you would need to pressure check it to 3X max working pressure. crimp style connectors

The best bet is to use flair connectors, you will need the help of a shop that has the flaring tool. Decide on how you want the line to fit, I suggest cutting up a coat hanger and using it to figure out your bends, saves time and money, make sure you take into account length of connectors. Bend your tube but when you cut to length remember to add the length of the angle on the fittings that it will drop into the line. Now put two female nuts on your line (back to back of course) and have the ends flared correctly for the fitting angles, attach and tighten...beemerphile is an uber mechanic and already gets what I'm saying and probably can explain better after he does it. Flair style connector
Hard lines with flairs
female nut connectors for flair style banjo fittings

 

[Beemerphile]

Thanks Cutter, I have found a very short 3AN hose, so I am going to try that first before I try my hand at tubing. I do have a flare tool that is stout enough for steel line. I do not have a hydrostatic tester though. Regarding the master cylinder, both this and the ABS bike have 14mm master cylinders. However, the ABS bike is only operating two pistons with the front control. If the lever travel is too great with the 14mm cylinder after I get it properly bled, then I will look at aftermarket radial master cylinders. I think the 14mm will be fine. If I was going from a single to dual calipers, then it would likely require a larger bore. The third piston is not as large as the outer two.

 

[Cutter J. Duke]

When Beemerphile finishes Extreme Farkling, the bike takes on its own personality

 

[Beemerphile]

OK, the Military Vehicle rally is over, back to Farkle Central to finish the front brake...



Here it is - re-piped with a shorter single hose, and a 5" loop to the other inlet. It was a bit of a pain to burp out all the air with a new caliper and new hoses, but it always it...




I made up some water-proof seals for the ends of my spare clutch cable using heatshrink tubing and the caps off of a Bic pen.



I stowed it on the bike under the right side cover. If I ever need it, the right side cover will have to come off for installation, so it seems a good place to stow it. I had first planned to route it in-place beside the operating cable like I always did in dirt bike days, but it was just too cluttered looking.

 

[duk2n]

That hose looks better to me, I hope it will work well

Nice location for the spare cable, I plan to store over there a tyre repair kit too, I found removing the fake airduct cover is an easy job

 

[Spaceteach]

Lee,
Did you by any chance measure the stock brake hose? I've been thinking of ordering a braided hose, but I don't know what length to get.
Thanks,
Bob

 

[Beemerphile]

Lee,
Did you by any chance measure the stock brake hose? I've been thinking of ordering a braided hose, but I don't know what length to get.
Thanks,
Bob

34 inches. That is hose length, not banjo to banjo as I used a universal hose with type 3AN banjo fittings. If you need it more accurate than that or if you are buying a hose with banjos on it, let me know and I will give it to you the other way.

I cut the two bushings off of the original hose in order to pad the new hose at the two supports (one on the right fork leg and the other at the center of the triple clamp). These clamps (especially the one on the triple clamp) must be re-used in order to hold the hose to the right so that it does not interfere during turns with the bracket that runs between the forks which supports the front of the fairing. Since the new hose will be thinner than the OEM rubber hose, I padded the hose at the point where the bushing was with silicone self-fusing tape (aka: Rescue Tape).

 

[Beemerphile]

Maño a mucha honra

José, ¿Qué significa esto? No lo entiendo.

 

[Spaceteach]

Lee, thanks for the measurement. I guess I wasn't very clear in the question. I was asking about the length of the OEM hose that you removed, but the length for the replacement will work too. I replaced the rubber hose on a CBR1000rr with Goodrich braided hose a few years back and, like you, re-used the hose clamps on the new line. I didn't have to use any rubber tape since the rubber pieces that were already between the original hose and clamp fit the new lines also. i do remember getting the rubber pieces that go between the metal clamps and the hose off the original was a real bear. Honda did a really good job of bonding those suckers to the hose.

Thanks for the help,
Bob

 

[radiotinnitus]

D-ville,

Y este, que quiere decir:

ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ - Lee
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito

??

A mi me gustan las rompecabezas asi. Que no necesita casco!

 

[duk2n]

José, ¿Qué significa esto? No lo entiendo.

LOL. "Maño" is the colloquial name given to the people from my region, "Aragón", and "a mucha honra" means you're proud of something. So the whole word would mean "I'm from Aragon, and I'm proud of it".

Thanks for the interest