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Helmets: Are cheap ones cheap or dangerous?

jakeisbill said:
I have seen a lot of really cool Flip-up Helmets recently from several companies. Does anybody have an objection to Flip-ups vs. Full Face?
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Flip up helmets will not be Snell certified since according to Snell's Website, Snell "has not had the opportunity to test any of the flip up front type helmets for certification". That does not imply either way that the design is or isn't inferior to a full face design.

My experience with the flip ups is that it makes it easier/less intimidating to converse and interface with people with the helmet on. A down side I have noted is the flip ups tend to weigh a little more than a full face.

Greg
 
I went with flip-ups some time ago, first with some KBC's, then an HBC, and now a Shoei Neotec. The ones I've been buying have also been increasing in price as they increase in comfort, air flow, and maybe in quiet (or maybe not - flip ups just seem noisier).

The original point of them for me was to be able to put on and take off the helmet without having to remove my glasses each time. That worked fine until I got the Shoei this past summer. The cheek pads on it come so far forward that I can't seem to find a way to ease the helmet on or off when I have my glasses on. Other than that, it's the best fitting helmet I've ever had, so I guess I'll keep it anyway.
 
"It is surely made of plastic, but the salesguy (rider himself) assured me it is ok for short trips around the countryside (not for serious touring).
At that price, I was expecting rusty, poor quality. But believe you me, I was pleasantly astounded by the quality finish of this "cheapo" lid. It says "Made in Taiwan".

Two questions to ask: 1) does it meet the European standards for helmet safety? 2) Does one crash differently if one is serious touring or just putting around town? Okay 3) How much is your head worth? Only you can answer the last question, whether the helmet is for you or one of your loved ones.
 
calbigbird said:
"It is surely made of plastic, but the salesguy (rider himself) assured me it is ok for short trips around the countryside (not for serious touring).
At that price, I was expecting rusty, poor quality. But believe you me, I was pleasantly astounded by the quality finish of this "cheapo" lid. It says "Made in Taiwan".

Two questions to ask: 1) does it meet the European standards for helmet safety? 2) Does one crash differently if one is serious touring or just putting around town? Okay 3) How much is your head worth? Only you can answer the last question, whether the helmet is for you or one of your loved ones.
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The answer to question 2 is no however you need more comfort if your wearing the helmet for a long ride than if your only going to wear it for about an hour
 
calbigbird said:
"It is surely made of plastic, but the salesguy (rider himself) assured me it is ok for short trips around the countryside (not for serious touring).
At that price, I was expecting rusty, poor quality. But believe you me, I was pleasantly astounded by the quality finish of this "cheapo" lid. It says "Made in Taiwan".

Two questions to ask: 1) does it meet the European standards for helmet safety? 2) Does one crash differently if one is serious touring or just putting around town? Okay 3) How much is your head worth? Only you can answer the last question, whether the helmet is for you or one of your loved ones.
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Some of these are not questions.
1. Yes.
2. Yes of course.
3. read on

The cheap helmet which I bought for my loved ones, have been used 2 times since purchase.
First time was 2 hours around the village roads here. Second time was 5 hours in total, up the Klausenpass. Both times worn by my son.

I am extremely careful when taking a pillion, especially the precious cargo of loved ones. I ride quite safely and slowly.
To mildly insinuate that I do not place a premium on their heads by buying a "cheap" helmet is quite insulting. You may not have meant it that way, but reading it somehow makes me a little cheesed.
There is no price too high for a loved one.
The other side of the coin is: buy sensibly, not everyone has "too much money".

That does not mean I will go and buy an expensive Shoei or Schuberth, just because some people here may "think" expensive helmets are safer.
That is the main point of this thread: cheap helmets = lower quality?
My opinion is: not always that case.

No helmet is safe, solution: don't crash or don't ride.
 
"The other side of the coin is: buy sensibly, not everyone has "too much money"."

I agree with that sentiment - just purchase the best that you can afford for the purpose of its intended use. Everybody has their own personal set of standards. Eg I wont buy any lid that isnt DOT. but thats just my own rule. Doesnt mean another helemt brand that is not DOT is any beter or worse but I feel better knowing I'm buying something that has been tested. Even though I have absolutely no idea what or how the testing is done :confused:
 
Attila said:
"The other side of the coin is: buy sensibly, not everyone has "too much money"."

I agree with that sentiment - just purchase the best that you can afford for the purpose of its intended use. Everybody has their own personal set of standards. Eg I wont buy any lid that isnt DOT. but thats just my own rule. Doesnt mean another helemt brand that is not DOT is any beter or worse but I feel better knowing I'm buying something that has been tested. Even though I have absolutely no idea what or how the testing is done :confused:
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Here is one website which can explain what is testing all about.
SHARP Helmets - THE HELMET SAFETY SCHEME

:p
 
Attila said:
Hi Happy
Thanks. Quite interesting. My helmet has a 4 out 5 star Sharp rating. So now Im happy too :p
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Now, don't go and test it out in real life.
4 or 5 stars means nothing when you hit a big fat wall or truck at 50mph head on.
One of my dear riding friends did just that, and he has bipolar plexus whatever...paralysed both arms.
He fell asleep while cruising at 50mph.
His head was saved but not his "life". He lives now a totally different person.
 
My two most comfortable helmets are an Arai and a GMax (seriously cheap) open face. The most comfortable full face I've found so far is the Shoei RF 1000. However everyone's head is different and so are the shapes of different helmets. I've also had Several models of Scorpion and HJC in the past. The only thing I won't buy off the Internet is a helmet, because they are so variable in fit that I never know if it will be comfortable on me until I actually try it on. I've even had two of the same size same model helmets fit differently when I tried them on. I used to think that price equalled comfort, but for the last few years even that rule hasn't proved to be true for me. By the way, if you tried the three helmets on that I mentioned in the beginning of this rant you might very well feel that they were really uncomfortable. My point is that no helmet will be comfortable unless it matches the shape of YOUR head and sometimes a cheap helmet will match that shape better than an expensive one. The advantages that I've found of the more expensive helmets is they generally have more plush liner cloth and sometimes they use more shell sizes so the helmet exterior is smaller, and sometimes they are lighter in weight.
The write up on helmets that some posters are referring to was in Motorcyclist magazine a few years back and it was really interesting. IIRC, the Snell foundation changed their certification criteria after that series of articles was printed.

As always, the above is just my opinion an YMMV.
Bob
 
Alabama Al said:
One time when I was going to buy a helmet, the sales person ask me this question "how much is your head worth"
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turbodieseli4i6 said:
Did you say, more than your entire body!
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If YOU were the salesman, and your job and income depends on the spending of the customer, what would you say to sound clever and yet not asking for more sales?
:rolleyes:

A better answer is: What are you using the helmet for?
What shape is your head?
What is your budget?
etc...

I am sure everyone would buy a Mercedes 600 AMG, coz it is the baddest, meanest, rocketmachine on the road.
 
JDE said:
How much is protecting your brain and face worth? That's the real question.
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I can not place a monitary value on my head, and so by this logic I should go out and find the MOST EXPENSIVE HELMET ($1,200) I can find and buy that. I'm sure it would protect me, but the protection value PER dollar is not as good as a less expensive helmet.

When I was younger, a friend explained what he called the "law of diminishing returns".
It seems to apply here as well: Here goes...

  • when I have no helmet, and I buy a cheap one, the return on my money is 100% better protection
  • when I have a cheap helmet and buy one twice as expensive, I have (probably) less than 50% better protection.
  • ...sooo... the more money I spend going up the price points, the less I get per dollar. (though the protection does get better in inverse proportion to the money I spend)

For me, that's why I go with the cheap helmet. Yes, my head is worth at least $1,200.00, but we buy what we can afford and are better off no matter what price point we choose.
 
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StratTuner said:
I can not place a monitary value on my head, and so by this logic I should go out and find the MOST EXPENSIVE HELMET ($1,200) I can find and buy that. I'm sure it would protect me, but the protection value PER dollar is not as good as a less expensive helmet.

When I was younger, a friend explained what he called the "law of diminishing returns".
It seems to apply here as well: Here goes...

  • when I have no helmet, and I buy a cheap one, the return on my money is 100% better protection
  • when I have a cheap helmet and buy one twice as expensive, I have (probably) less than 50% better protection.
  • ...sooo... the more money I spend going up the price points, the less I get per dollar. (though the protection does get better in inverse proportion to the money I spend)

For me, that's why I go with the cheap helmet. Yes, my head is worth at least $1,200.00, but we buy what we can afford and are better off no matter what price point we choose.
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You are right.
Nowadays cheap (lower priced) helmets all pass the quality tests and they cost less because they are not spending millions on marketing and endorsing famous riders.

I think to be clever, just buy one which fits right, has a "Tested good" sticker and within your budget.
More expensive does not mean safer.
It does give the rider a "good feeling".
:D
 
Happy, I think you are correct that one can find products that perform similarly or equally well, or sometimes even better, for a lower price. I think the businessman or salesman tries to insinuate that only expensive things could possibly be any good, and that only the stupid would try to spend less than what he's asking for whatever item he is making or selling. However, even a simple person can see through this false sales tactic if they apply themselves for a moment.

Personally, I demand Snell certification and comfort. From there, I choose features, price, and so forth.

The write up on helmets that some posters are referring to was in Motorcyclist magazine a few years back and it was really interesting. IIRC, the Snell foundation changed their certification criteria after that series of articles was printed.
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I agree that it was an interesting article. Nevertheless, Snell did not change their certification criteria in response to it. That article's entire argument (and it sounded like the axe that the driving force/person behind the article was grinding) was, in essence, that helmets should be made to _only_ protect people's heads in low-speed accidents such as driveway tip-overs. Further, it basically said that protection for higher-speed accidents precludes protection for low-speed accidents. They then went on to suggest, as I recall it, that DOT-certified helmets were 'safer' than Snell-certified helmets based upon their preconception of what helmets 'should' protect against. The logical fallacy of their premise is that all Snell-certified helmets are also DOT-certified helmets. So, then, one can easily see that the article was advocating that head protection be held to _less than_ a certain amount. Or, in other words, one might say that they were advocating that only people who tip over in their driveways should have head protection; everyone else deserves brain damage or death. That's a little harsh, but it's the logical extension of their argument.

When Snell _did_ change their standard/procedure for certain of their helmet sizes (only XL and larger, as I recall right now), it was in response to European regulators' refusal to modify their particular standards and procedures. ECE helmet certification is similar to somewhat lower in protection than DOT, but the particulars are such that Snell had to modify the way they address very large helmets in order to be able to have their certification continue to be accepted in Europe. So, basically, European regulators said 'Regardless of everything, you'll do it our way or we'll effectively lock you out of the continent.' With this ultimatum, Snell pretty well had to modify a couple of things. The Motorcyclist article fed a great deal of the 'we don't want to wear helmets! helmets are bad!' people's emotions and fed in to the whole anti-Snell campaign.

At this point, since a helmet can be simultaneously DOT-, ECE-, and Snell-certified, I think one must look rather carefully, and perhaps skeptically, at the Motorcyclist article's claims and motives.
 
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