Mods Feeler: Better Brakes? Better Suspension? Better Suspension and Brakes?

[tooblekain]

Hey everybody,

I'm gauging interest in seeing how many of you would like a much better brake setup for the NC? Say....like a dual disk setup that you see in sportbikes?

The idea came to mind to do a complete front end swap off a sportbike (common mod you see for race track bikes for SV650s) so you can have better suspension, suspension adjustability, and better brakes.

I had the idea of maybe using Honda CBR600F3 front end for the NC. The CBR600F3 front end uses conventional forks, is the same diameter forks as the NC (41mm) and the CBR600F3 has a cartridge kit internals instead of a damper rod. The CBR600F3 forks also allow you to adjust preload and make adjustments to rebound. This woud translate to better suspension with adjustability.

The first problem I saw with this is that the NC forks are 30mm longer in length than the F3 forks. If we were to put the F3 forks straight into the triples of the NC, the bike's nose would be pitched forward. THis would cause the bike to be even more twitchy--so it would make turn ins a lot easier, but you sacrifice straight line stabillity at speed. As to how fast, that's hard to determine and wouldn't be able to until you do the mod. This would also require you to run the front wheel, calipers, and master cylinder from an F3

A second alternative would be to just have upgraded brakes---you would basically take the fork bottoms of the F3 and put the slider and internals of the NC back on. You would then just need the front wheel with discs, the front axle, calipers, new brake lines and a master cylinder. You can already upgrade the NC's oem suspension by installing Racetech Gold Valve Emulators.

I guess I am just speaking my mind, but I would like to hear your thoughts on how the OEM brakes feel? If others would like better suspension and adjustability? If the suspension or brakes should be higher on the mod/imrpove list.

 

[Spaceteach]

Personally I don't have any problem with the stock brakes on my NC and I've installed Gold Valve emulators in the forks. I have had sport bikes with fully adjustable suspension in the past and found that once I had played with the adjustments and got them to my liking I pretty much left them alone. For someone that wants to firm up the suspension for a track day and then soften it up for the street, the adjustability would probably be a plus, but I just ride on the street.

Bob

 

[buckshot]

There are two different front calipers from honda for the NC. ABS bikes have a 3 piston caliper, non-ABS have a 2 piston. Could be an easy upgrade for a 2 piston bike. My S has the bigger grabber, and I don't have any complaints regarding the braking other than the odd squeal every now and again.

In terms of suspension, I remember a thread on here about someone who put CB1100 fork caps on his NC forks for a bit more tuning potential. As far as I remember they screw on in place of the stock caps.

 

[tooblekain]

There are two different front calipers from honda for the NC. ABS bikes have a 3 piston caliper, non-ABS have a 2 piston. Could be an easy upgrade for a 2 piston bike. My S has the bigger grabber, and I don't have any complaints regarding the braking other than the odd squeal every now and again.

In terms of suspension, I remember a thread on here about someone who put CB1100 fork caps on his NC forks for a bit more tuning potential. As far as I remember they screw on in place of the stock caps.

Hmmm...the CB1100 caps most likely are for just preload adjustments only.

 

[Erok]

Would fork extenders on the CBR forks work?

 

[buckshot]

Does the cbr600f3 have ABS on the front end? And what would the chances of it working with the NC system be?

 

[tooblekain]

Would fork extenders on the CBR forks work?

That may be the solution!!! I'll have to look into that

Does the cbr600f3 have ABS on the front end? And what would the chances of it working with the NC system be?

No, the CBR600F3 was a bike from 1995-2000 IIRC. It's an old bike. ABS wasn't invented yet. If you have ABS already, it would make it difficult because for a front end upgrade because we would need to figure out a way to hold the ABS sensor as well as where to put the ABS ring on the rim.

 

[westgl]

Not ME!!

I am more than satisfied with how the stock brakes stop.

 

[Oldenuf]

Do all those modifications? Or trade the NC in on a VFR.

Art

 

[buckshot]

Keep the NC and buy a VFR750!

 

[dduelin]

Let's see, the NC700X non-ABS stops in 50.5 meters from a speed of 70 mph. That is a very good spec for a single disk set up and has pretty good feel and is easy to modulate.

For comparision let's look at 70mph - 0 distances for some other motorcycles:

CBR600RR 55.6 meters
ZX6R (636) 50.7
GSXR-600 51.1
Daytona 675 51.7
Daytona 675R 48.9
Yamaha R6 55.8
GSXR-750 49.5
CBR1000R 52.0
Ducati 1199 Panigale S 46.6
Ducati Hyperstrada 50.3
Aprilia Tuono V4R 47.5
KTM 990 SMT 52.9

The NC fits in very nicely in this comparison. I used the same source for the info to try and get a fairly accurate population and all bikes are current production or no older than 2011 models. There are bikes with better performance and some high performing bikes with less braking performance. The bikes with better performance all cost more, some three or four times as much.

In my opinion adding a second disk would add unsprung weight and complexity for very little, if any, improvement in braking performance. The NC already has very good brakes in this comparison. The NC stands for New Concept which is the antithesis of many of the above bikes. The NC focuses on efficiency and economy while still being fun to ride. Why would I want to change 2 sets of pads or buy two disks at 120,000 miles when one does the job as good as or better than some sportbike setups? The NC isn't a track bike, where's the benefit?

The suspension could be improved and is a worthy goal but understand the NC700 was built to a price point. The stock suspension will do the job for most riders but for those that need better it is available.

 

[CandyStripes327]

Matt mentioned this thread to me and my immediate response was the "Breaks Suck." It's really my only beef with this bike (its the non-abs version). It's really not a big beef because I don't go that fast on the NC so a single caliper does the job well enough... but I am not used to having to pull that hard on the lever to get the desired deceleration. I never used as much rear brake as I have since getting the NC.

that said, I like the way the bike handles... the F3 conversion scares me a little because of the fork length differential. I know, painfully, how geometry changes can go bad and I don't want to change the "NC experience" that much... What I want from this bike is MPGs first and foremost.

The only real pleasure riding I plan to do is trail, and I image I will be using more rear brake than front... but >90% of the time I will be commuting. it's a textbook conundrum.

 

[Old Can Ride]

Every time I have ever change one performance thing seems like I have to change many other things to get back to where I was. This has all ways been true with performance units. Performance is not cheap, but we keep chasing it? Offerings to the God of Speed!

 

[netizen]

Keep the NC and buy a VFR750!

LOL, I couldn't believe what I was reading...... great taste buckshot!

I love my VFR and my NCX. Wouldn't part with either of them

 

[buckshot]

There's just something about a V4 engine that speaks to me.

 

[670cc]

Modifying the brakes are not on my mod list at all. The front is totally adequate for me. The rear, while being admittedly quite weak, has an excellent feel which aids in fine speed control during slow maneuvers.

Part of the means of achieving high gas mileage is using the brakes as little as possible. I don't use mine much. Obviously you want powerful brakes in an emergency situation, but still I think the stockers are adequate.

Greg