My first thoughts on doing the first oil change

[tooblekain]

Finally did the 600 mile oil change for Sofia's bike...Here are my thoughts...

The oil filter is on there waaaayyyy too tight. I had to disconnect the mounts for the coolant overflow and horn to make room to use my oil filter vise grips. The oil filter got destroyed, but didn't crack open. It took forever to remove it. I even had to use penetrating fluid to help with removal of it.

The OEM service manual recommends 30N-m for the oil drain plug. That is the highest I have ever seen for any drain plug for all the cars and bikes I have worked on. I have seen the expensive damage that can happen when tightening the drain plug too tight, so I am going against the OEM service manual and just went with snug (which for me is about 23N-m last time I checked). Ill be sure to check that no oil leaks

 

[Big Thump]

Honda must employ Popeye for the oil filter because mine was the same way. I used my filter wrench and popped it with a rubber mallet. That did the trick for me and the filter came right off. Definitely only snugged the drain plug. 30Nm does seem pretty heavy but again, Popeye eats his spinach. LOL!

 

[Old Can Ride]

HEAT causes the tightness on alloy engine. I see no problem on the drain plug to use a lesser torque, as long as it does not leak. Double check it. And you are right, I have also have seen so many people strip this bolt with over torque or not start by hand, and the stainless coil fix is not cheap.

 

[StratTuner]

slightly related to this subject....

Always remove the O-ring in the filter and check it for defects. Some even finger coat it with oil, I read, to help it seal.
I had one O-ring on a K&N filter that didn't seal, and wow... what a mess!
I will always us K&N (I like the brand), but I will always check the rubber O-ring.

 

[dduelin]

Yeah, what does Honda know.

 

[VE258]

out of curiosity i've used copper crush drain washers that i bought while ago for my old nissan. worked well. just double check for a leaks after you done.

10pc Oil Drain Plug Crush Washer Gaskets 11026 01M02 for Nissan Infiniti | eBay

 

[showkey]

oil, oil filters, torque of plug and filter, crush washers.....................where is that popcorn when you need it

 

[buckshot]

My oil filter came off the 1st time without much effort, what are you guys using to get your filters off? I've got a plastic socket type thing, 3/8 drive I think, that slips on the end of the filter and it ratchets right off. I think it was $2 at the local auto parts store. They had steel ones for $5. Sure beats strap wrenches and slip-joint filter pliers.

 

[L.B.S.]

My oil filter came off the 1st time without much effort, what are you guys using to get your filters off? I've got a plastic socket type thing, 3/8 drive I think, that slips on the end of the filter and it ratchets right off. I think it was $2 at the local auto parts store. They had steel ones for $5. Sure beats strap wrenches and slip-joint filter pliers.

Maybe the Canuck models got the oil filters intalled after the robot assembly machine wore itself out on the other countries bikes? lol. Mine nearly undid itself and fell off...

Say, and how's your seat? Mine is soft and cushy, everyones else's is a Marquis de Sade device, apparently.

 

[Old Can Ride]

I like the old copper washers also, but copper cost more, so alum crush washer now days.

 

[L.B.S.]

I like the old copper washers also, but copper cost more, so alum crush washer now days.

It must be an old school thing. I like copper crush washers too, and kinda mistrust the new fangled aluminum jobbies, lol

 

[Old Can Ride]

Older Honda engineers know a lot. But even that is being subbed out now days. Early retired Honda engineers become Kymco engineers.

 

[anglachel]

Some even finger coat it with oil, I read, to help it seal.

That is how I was taught to change oil filters by my father, who was a mechanic for many many many years.
Don't know if it actually does anything at all, but it's what I've always done...

my father also never mentioned using a channel lock to get an OEM oil filter off... (he was more of a drive a screw driver straight through the whole thing kinda guy.)

 

[tooblekain]

Yeah, what does Honda know.

If I were not experienced with working on many bikes and cars, of course I would take it on faith that 30N-m is correct.

But I have seen many factories make mistakes and recalls and changes to torque values to bolts. A perfect example of this is Triumph's service bulletin to change the torque spec for the cam cover bolts from 10N-m to 14N-m for their Modern Classic lineup.

A PERSONAL story regarding relying on the OEM Service Manual and later finding out it's too much comes from my experience with my fork pinch bolt with my Daytona 675. The recommended torque for it was around 25N-m. Eventually (after many wheel removals because it was a track only bike) the threads from the fork stanchions stripped off from just loosening the bolt. It turns out I wasn't the only one I had that happen. Luckily I was able to retap it and would tighten it to only 10-15 Nm as well as applied anti-seize to minimize the chance of galvanic corrosion. I also ran an axle slider and safety wired the axle pinch bolts to each other to minimize the possible chance of them coming out.

 

[buckshot]

Maybe the Canuck models got the oil filters intalled after the robot assembly machine wore itself out on the other countries bikes? lol. Mine nearly undid itself and fell off...

Say, and how's your seat? Mine is soft and cushy, everyones else's is a Marquis de Sade device, apparently.

My seat is good for about an hour, then it starts to get to me. My girlfriend had the same sentiments about the rear seat, which I'm a bit surprised at. Didn't think she'd go that long.

I'm waiting for seat concepts to roll out a rear seat fix, then I'll do them both at the same time hopefully with a gripper cover for both. Her biggest complaint was sliding into me under harder than normal braking. Her complaint, not mine....

 

[Old Can Ride]

Stay on those brakes guy!

 

[dduelin]

If I were not experienced with working on many bikes and cars, of course I would take it on faith that 30N-m is correct.

But I have seen many factories make mistakes and recalls and changes to torque values to bolts. A perfect example of this is Triumph's service bulletin to change the torque spec for the cam cover bolts from 10N-m to 14N-m for their Modern Classic lineup.

A PERSONAL story regarding relying on the OEM Service Manual and later finding out it's too much comes from my experience with my fork pinch bolt with my Daytona 675. The recommended torque for it was around 25N-m. Eventually (after many wheel removals because it was a track only bike) the threads from the fork stanchions stripped off from just loosening the bolt. It turns out I wasn't the only one I had that happen. Luckily I was able to retap it and would tighten it to only 10-15 Nm as well as applied anti-seize to minimize the chance of galvanic corrosion. I also ran an axle slider and safety wired the axle pinch bolts to each other to minimize the possible chance of them coming out.

Yeah, what does Honda know.

Use of anti-seize between dissimilar metals is laudable but you do realize its use changes torque values which are given dry unless otherwise noted in the service manual. If the threads are lubricated the original torque values are out the window.

 

[tooblekain]

Yes, I am aware of that. And if I recall correctly, one of my friend's actually has the formula on how to figure out the new torque value when using a lubricant on the threads to it's equivalent original dry torque.

While I do have a lot of trust to an OEM service manual and follow it, my experience with working with MANY BIKES and CARS and seeing the SAME problems due to going by factory torque settings, it makes you wonder if something is not right.

As stated before, factories have issued service bulletin updates and recalls, so manufacturers are not always right.

Granted, the NC700X is a new bike and only time will tell if we see stripped threads due to the torque settings being too high for the oil drain plug. My previous experiences from the exact same problem from many others following the OEM recommended settings eventually had failure.

Overall, I have 99% trust in an OEM service manual.

Yeah, what does Honda know.

Use of anti-seize between dissimilar metals is laudable but you do realize its use changes torque values which are given dry unless otherwise noted in the service manual. If the threads are lubricated the original torque values are out the window.

 

[Mr_Krabs]

It must be an old school thing. I like copper crush washers too, and kinda mistrust the new fangled aluminum jobbies, lol

Copper crush washers was for steel drain pans which could be torqued a little higher. For softer aluminum you need softer crush washers. I've never had a problem with either. But I also know how to anneal aluminum ones. Takes a little practice and after a while they do tend to squish to the point of needing a trim and ream but that's usually a half dozen changes or so. By then I usually break down and buy a new one.

 

[MZ5]

That is how I was taught to change oil filters by my father, who was a mechanic for many many many years.
Don't know if it actually does anything at all, but it's what I've always done...

my father also never mentioned using a channel lock to get an OEM oil filter off... (he was more of a drive a screw driver straight through the whole thing kinda guy.)

Oil on the gasket may improve seal. It definitely helps prevent the gasket sticking to the block or filter mount, tearing or otherwise compromising the seal. It alters the required torque to provide appropriate thread tension/seal compression, and it's specified in the manual.