NC SA (so manual) fuel guide help needed

[werewasi]

I'm going on a six day outback ride with no panniers and a tent etc to carry, so I can't carry extra fuel bar 1100 cc in a fuel bottle.
With the 14l tank and this I will have a total of 15.1l ( 3.988 US gallons or 3.32 imperial gallons)
I'm facing 338kms (210 miles) between fuel at one place and 377 kms (234 mls) another time.

I've not had the opportunity (all riding up till now being city stuff) to get a handle on open road consumption, so I need an accurate guide as to
what the bike will use. Sitting on the side of the road on Queensland outback roads is not very enjoyable.
I'll ride at 100 kph (62 mph) if necessary (prefer 68 mph) to just get to the next roadhouse.

So can I make it and what are the speed guides?

Finally what are the best tyre pressures to run. (the guy I bought it from didn't get a handbook from the dealer)

thanks

 

[duk2n]

I do 300 km each time before the reserve light flashes being my ride 50/50 town/open-road. And when the bike was new I tested there was 80 km of reserve until the engine stoped because no more fuel. So I would say it is doable, but way risky...

About speed, my cruiser speed is between 100 and 120 kph

Tyre pressure is in the left side of the swingarm, 2.5 for the front, 2.9 rear

At least here at Spain, you can download the user manual in PDF format from the Honda web site.

 

[L.B.S.]

I'm going on a six day outback ride with no panniers and a tent etc to carry, so I can't carry extra fuel bar 1100 cc in a fuel bottle.
With the 14l tank and this I will have a total of 15.1l ( 3.988 US gallons or 3.32 imperial gallons)
I'm facing 338kms (210 miles) between fuel at one place and 377 kms (234 mls) another time.

I've not had the opportunity (all riding up till now being city stuff) to get a handle on open road consumption, so I need an accurate guide as to
what the bike will use. Sitting on the side of the road on Queensland outback roads is not very enjoyable.
I'll ride at 100 kph (62 mph) if necessary (prefer 68 mph) to just get to the next roadhouse.

So can I make it and what are the speed guides?

Finally what are the best tyre pressures to run. (the guy I bought it from didn't get a handbook from the dealer)

thanks

"can't" or "don't want to"?

It's the easiest thing in the world to carry extra fuel; it's just a matter of being a little creative. I'm sure you could find a few places to strap at least another two or three or four 1 litre bottles if you cared to.

Are you completely filling your front trunk with stuff? You can fit a 5 litre square shaped jerry can in there no problem, with room for a few more odds and ends to boot. You can strap a 3.78 litre Rotopax (or equivalent) to the passenger seat and then tie down your kit bag or duffle on top of it.

With my BMW, I did stuff like that, including hose clamping a 1 litre fuel bottle to each side passenger grab rail, and a bottle sitting on each passenger foot peg, and around the peg bracket mount. If I was unable to do anything fancy or clever with hose clamps, I would have simply wrapped the bottles in place using duct or electrical tape.

If I was truly worried about being stranded, or at the minimum inconvenienced, by running out of fuel in the middle of nowhere, for sure I would be bristling with all the extra fuel I could squirrel away anywhere. I wouldn't care what it looked like, or if I had to get a little out of the box inventive with carrying it.

The reason I'm saying all this, is because in my humble opinion, you'll never get a completely accurate figure on fuel consumption. Everyone has their own way of riding, bike to bike can be quite different, unexpected headwinds can catch you totally by surprise, having to go faster or a lower gear than you thought, unusual conditions, whatever, that's all out of everybody's hands for the most part.

What you *can* do, is spend a few creative minutes with bottles or containers, and make them fit on somehow. I HATE running out of petrol, lol.

 

[werewasi]

Thanks for the response

"can't" or "don't want to"?

It's the easiest thing in the world to carry extra fuel; it's just a matter of being a little creative. I'm sure you could find a few places to strap at least another two or three or four 1 litre bottles if you cared to.

It's not. Qland temp is 82F in winter. Jerry cans just blow up like footballs if exposed to the sun. Only solution is to put it into a wine carton and line with foil. I hope you weren't thinking "' 1 litre ex soft drink bottles."

Are you completely filling your front trunk with stuff? You can fit a 5 litre square shaped jerry can in there no problem, with room for a few more odds and ends to boot. You can strap a 3.78 litre Rotopax (or equivalent) to the passenger seat and then tie down your kit bag or duffle on top of it.

Not tank has cans of food, gazburner and spare cartridge, puncture gear, pannikin.............. i'll be lucky to get the lid shut.
On the back is a 1300mm x 1300 x1300 gearsack with w/weather gear strapped on top. Behind this is tent, thermarest and roll of hi density foam mat because I am getting too old to lie on rocky ground.
Just pointing this out because I've done these trips before but not on a bike which is unsuited to this type of trip.

With my BMW, I did stuff like that, including hose clamping a 1 litre fuel bottle to each side passenger grab rail, and a bottle sitting on each passenger foot peg, and around the peg bracket mount. If I was unable to do anything fancy or clever with hose clamps, I would have simply wrapped the bottles in place using duct or electrical tape.

If I was truly worried about being stranded, or at the minimum inconvenienced, by running out of fuel in the middle of nowhere, for sure I would be bristling with all the extra fuel I could squirrel away anywhere. I wouldn't care what it looked like, or if I had to get a little out of the box inventive with carrying it.

The reason I'm saying all this, is because in my humble opinion, you'll never get a completely accurate figure on fuel consumption. Everyone has their own way of riding, bike to bike can be quite different, unexpected headwinds can catch you totally by surprise, having to go faster or a lower gear than you thought, unusual conditions, whatever, that's all out of everybody's hands for the most part.


Sure, but if someone asked me what sort of consumption an R80 would give, i'd say:
If you're doing open road stuff
If the terrain is flat
If you ride smoothly at 100kph
If there aren't strong headwinds

then 19kms per litre.

What you *can* do, is spend a few creative minutes with bottles or containers, and make them fit on somehow. I HATE running out of petrol, lol.

I did the US/Canada on a heavily loaded EV1100 and it was a PIA when I got onto slippery ground.
I'm not a 100kg 6 footer so just want to avoid carrying anything not essential.

I need to get 27kms per litre or 76 miles per imperial gallon. Has anyone managed this?

Parallel is a marathon, If you don't think you'll get to the finish, slow down, pray, ........

 

[werewasi]

duk2n,
Just what I wanted to hear.
If you can get 380 out of 14l then that's 27kms p litre. I need enough for 377kms.
I'll still have 1.1 litres in the fuel bottle and that will do another 30kms or will give me a 10% margin for using more fuel if conditions are adverse..

 

[Fuzzy]

LBS gives very good advice. I average 62 miles per US gallon, not enough for your need. Off road you will not be at optimum speed for best range. If you get Duk2n's range you will arrive at pump with only fumes in tank. Let it idle a couple times when you stop for a picture and you won't make it.

2 litres will add 3 pounds and 30+ miles to range. Worth it for insurance.

 

[Chris]

In normal riding - mixed types of roads, moderately quick I only get about 23 to 24 km per litre. Even if you could use every drop of fuel in the tank then you might still be left with a long walk on your 377km leg - and might not even make the 338km.

It's not uncommon for the engine to stop due to lack of fuel when there's still half a litre or more in the tank - I'd take a 5 litre can of fuel any day for such a trip and still be cautious about the long leg.

 

[turbodieseli4i6]

Thanks for the response



I did the US/Canada on a heavily loaded EV1100 and it was a PIA when I got onto slippery ground.
I'm not a 100kg 6 footer so just want to avoid carrying anything not essential.

I need to get 27kms per litre or 76 miles per imperial gallon. Has anyone managed this?

Parallel is a marathon, If you don't think you'll get to the finish, slow down, pray, ........

76 mpg is easy! 94.6 has been done already.. And that's US mpg not the large imperial gallon.
Try this one out.http://nc700-forum.com/forum/nc700-...-hypermiling-blue-ridge-parkway-94-6-mpg.html

 

[L.B.S.]

Thanks for the response



I did the US/Canada on a heavily loaded EV1100 and it was a PIA when I got onto slippery ground.
I'm not a 100kg 6 footer so just want to avoid carrying anything not essential.

I need to get 27kms per litre or 76 miles per imperial gallon. Has anyone managed this?

Parallel is a marathon, If you don't think you'll get to the finish, slow down, pray, ........

Hey, if you can't find a single place to put an extra one or two 1 litre MSR fuel bottles for emergency, but want to rely upon guesstimates for your fuel consumption out in the middle of the Outback, well, all I can do is wish you the best and hope everything works out in your favour.

I haven't gotten anywhere even close to the mileage you "need" to get.

 

[Old Can Ride]

Try strapping a fuel container to the back seat, for a one time trip. However if you plan a lot of traveling , many companies make easy to add fuel containers. Outback is not a good place to run out of gas.

 

[werewasi]

The results are in

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I'm back 2600 kms later and can report on the fuel figs.

First thing that throws up is that the speedo is apparently over reading by about 9kph (5.59mph) at indicated 110kph (68 mph) so this needs to be factored in because if you want to travel at a real 110kph, then you might use 10% more fuel to do it.
Back tyre on it is a Bridgestone battlax 023R 160x60ZR 17 which may have a smaller rolling circumference that some other tyres fitted to NCs.

After getting on the flat stuff without a discernible head wind at this "110 kph", I used 38.95 litres (10.29 US gallons ) to cover 1186kms (737 miles)
so got 29.93kms per litre or 71.62 mpg (US) and 84.56 mpg (imperial).

My longest stretch was 388kms (241 miles) between fuel stations and the tank took 13.37 litres so maybe there was only about .73l remaining which would have only got me another 22kms.

The outback roads were littered with roo carcases which you wouldn't want to miss and run into.
In addition there were emus crossing very close in front with a dangerous unpredictability and many times I just loved that ABS.
Also crossing the roads were roos, cattle, goats, and wild pigs.
The roos are out particularly at dawn and dusk so riding then was a no no but even during the day with the bright light interspersed with tree shadow, it was pretty difficult to spot all this wildlife lurking on the road sides.





These are typical outback roads where the distance makes it too costly to seal the normal full road width but when a truck and trailer appear, you need to make a hurried break for the side because they will not move off the tar.

This give you an idea of the width - probably about 4 metres.




After one guy got hit by a cattle beast, (shaken, bruised, wiser but still alive) we had to slow down to 100kph
(indicated) for a while, but surprisingly the fuel consumption didn't improve markedly, being 29.23 kms per litre

Other conclusions:
I wouldn't go touring on this bike again.
The suspension is poor.
The seat is uncomfortable, even with a sheepskin
Filling the tank during the day was a PIA because it meant taking all the gear off the bike. I have an R80 that is kitted out, so wasn't going to fit panniers to this bike.
The motor is great but it's really an urban cruiser and the tank capacity makes it unsuitable for Australian touring. The economy is offset by the
3 downsides.
I think I re learnt why R80s are so good. (apart from the lack of ABS)

This pic shows why getting the gear off for the lunchtime fuel stop was tiresome




This guy rode a 69 Trident which ate fuel big time - about 14kms per litre so we had some anxious times !!!!!


__________________
Henceforth I whimper no more, postpone no more, need nothing;
Done with indoor complaints, libraries, querulous criticisms,
Strong and content I travel the open road.

Walt Whitman

 

[L.B.S.]

Huh, I would have thought it proved the bike is suitable for Australian touring, as it made the longest stage required, on one tank of fuel, with some to spare, no extra containers needed.

The cost of a new seat compared to the cost of a motorcycle surely must be something within the boundaries of affordable mods, and I can't say I've ever, in my entire life, heard of a single motorcycle made, that didn't have someone complaining about the seat being uncomfortable.

I have my passenger seat loaded up with luggage too, but I loaded it in such a way that it wasn't a pain to get at the fuel filler. I wouldn't blame the bike for being unsuitable, I would blame myself for not packing properly.

The suspension is another thing easily dealt with if one chooses to do so, and the members here who have, report a wonderful experience. Again, without visualizing a bike that was thousands and thousands of dollars more expensive, there are very few motorcycles that everyone has lauded the forks and shock action as being perfect.

 

[Old Can Ride]

Looks like the outback is a real adventure. Wish I could have been there. Someday!

 

[netizen]

What was the sticker price of the bmw with side cases and any upgrades compared to the stock ncx? How much would it cost the cases and other upgrades to the ncx?

Your comparing a stock bike setup and marketed to attract budget minded buyers, with a bike that probably costs twice as much, setup and priced for a much higher end buyer. That is not a fair comparison.

It's like comparing a range rover to a standard suv. Of course the range rover will be more comfortable, and more functional.....but at what cost?



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[werewasi]

Huh, I would have thought it proved the bike is suitable for Australian touring, as it made the longest stage required, on one tank of fuel, with some to spare, no extra containers needed.

The outback situation is that the number of towns with fuel facilities is decreasing (because of the marginal profit and expensive tank upgrades) so there were lots I went through where there were no longer pumps or were a card and pin number facility only. At Quilpie (a critical stop) they ran out of premium fuel before the BMWs were fuelled up. Lucky the boys were carrying octane booster. It's going to get worse because this "outback" bug is growing with more people heading out there every year (e.g. the Birdsville races -10,000 descending on a town that has a permanent pop of 75) and no one wanting to stump up the cost of facilities.
I sat at Inaminka for half a day last year waiting for more fuel to be trucked in. (460kms down the Stryzlecki track to the closest fuel stop at Lyndhurst)

Bikes with a 14 litre tank that give a safe 350km range just don't cut it.

see my next post for the reason.

The cost of a new seat compared to the cost of a motorcycle surely must be something within the boundaries of affordable mods, and I can't say I've ever, in my entire life, heard of a single motorcycle made, that didn't have someone complaining about the seat being uncomfortable.

I bought a CX 650E in 1986 and it had a superbly comfortable seat so Honda can do it. Even the GB 500 feels better and the R80 is pretty good. Affordable mods? C'mon, when you buy a car do you have to rip the seat out and replace it with something reasonable..

I have my passenger seat loaded up with luggage too, but I loaded it in such a way that it wasn't a pain to get at the fuel filler. I wouldn't blame the bike for being unsuitable, I would blame myself for not packing properly.

Panniers are probably necessary and I'd get them if the seat and suspension were better.

Maybe I'm expecting too much (for the price) but when it comes to the motor I think it's great and can't empathise with guys who complain that it's gutless.
The brakes, ABS standard with a 3 pot caliper are brilliant.
I'm in the middle of a pack of NC devotees but surely some others read road tests that comment adversely on the seat and suspension.
I don't own a V Strom, but have ridden one and think that although they may do a few less miles to the gallon, they're a much more suitable bike for the outback trip. I just took the NC on this trip to see if it was reasonably suitable and the conclusion is that it's not. Doesn't mean that I think that the bike is not a good one for other things. In Sydney it was great.


__________________
Henceforth I whimper no more, postpone no more, need nothing;
Done with indoor complaints, libraries, querulous criticisms,
Strong and content I travel the open road.

Walt Whitman

 

[JamesD]

I'm certainly not going to argue about the uncomfortable seat.
There is really no excuse for it being as bad as it is given the touring nature of the NCX.

I think the tank access thing is largely due to using a bike for touring and not buying touring accessories.
Lets face it, if you plan on touring much you need a top box and panniers.
At the very least you'll be glad you got them rather than making do.
If you really want to extend the range without lifting the rear seat you could tie into the fuel return hose.
Add a T, a valve and run a fuel line to an external tank.
Pretty simple plumbing really if you can find a suitable external tank.
I haven't tested this idea though.

As for suspension... I think the NCX is better suited to the outback than the NCS.
The gold valve fork mod and springs more suited for my weight would be a must if I were to use my NCX on rough roads much.
I still think a rear shock from another bike could be swapped in like I'm doing on my VFR.
My 929 shock was under $50 from a salvage bike. It needed a custom spacer to fit the VFR but that's not that difficult to make.
I think the total upgrade cost for my VFR was under $400.

If you compare the NC vs another bike, make sure you compare the prices of the bikes.
You can do a lot of mods for a $1000-$2000 difference in price.

 

[L.B.S.]

Hey, don't get me wrong werewasi, the tiniest thing wrong with the NC700 in your eyes, is a perfectly reasonable point of view that I can understand. No arguments from me on how or what you are comparing your experience with it to.

But as you have your opinions, I have mine, and can only reply with how I see things.

I had a CX500Turbo, which if I'm not mistaken, the seat was virtually identical to the 650E, and it's seat wasn't the slightest bit more comfortable to me than my NC700X. (and what was the fuel range of the CX650E compared to an NC700...?)

I had a 1991 DR350S whose seat was Satan himself, disguised as a piece of foam covered in vinyl, that I would dare anyone here to not vote the NC700X seat as the most outstanding wondrously superb NASA memory foam cocoon ever created by man, if they had sat on that thing.

Please feel free to list all of the motorcycles whose stock tank sizes and comparative ranges, meet your requirements. I would be most curious to compare them against the NC700, and see just what kind of specs and prices you are willing to determine are vastly superior, and do some number crunching. As we know, the NC700's are designed for low octane fuel, have the ability to carry extra petrol more easily than just about any other motorcycle made, and I am baffled as to how all other motorcycles made can do these outback journeys, without spare gasoline being packed.

Honestly, seeing something as cheap and simple to swap out as a seat, and using that as a basis to nullify a bike's potential, is just strange to me.

And to be using buying a car and not having to change it's seats to suit as a viable comparison, struck me a little bit funny. I changed out the seats in my car for aftermarket seats, as I hated the stock ones for comfort. That too, was a cheap and easy thing to do, and transformed my long distance use to pleasure versus pain. Buying a new car would have been just a wee bit drastic, instead of some new cheap seats, lol.

 

[werewasi]

Ok guys you're right (partly)
I should have panniers fitted to avoid tank hassles.

as regards the seat:

The CX was a Japanese domestic model as was the GB that I bought at the same time. In 1986 the Australian and NZ dollars collapsed against the yen and the solution for the bike industry was to go to japan and buy up at a discounted price all the end of the line domestic specials. The bikes were kitted out (as are the grey import cars now) to a much higher standard than regular export stuff. e.g my GB 500 has a fairing fitted whereas you will only see this on the 400s. All Euro, UK and US 500 bikes are naked. Slightly different tank and other details



So I can only assume that there was a seat difference on the CX as well because it was the best I'd ever had.

The CX had 19 l tank but I got 20 into it and I have still got a log showing 23kms per l. so that is about 450kms range

As you can see from this photo (look at sign on far right) you'd need all of that.



and another on the direct road from Queensland to Alice Srings

 

[Old Can Ride]

I have a complicated question. I know it is complicated because I don't know the answer. Where in the world is "Elsewhere"?

 

[werewasi]

me ozzie, very jokey fella

but this is to show that we are not just a bunch of boofheads


Lyndhurst Elsewhere Hotel

permanent works of art, depicting the thoughts of Cornelis Johan (Talc Alf) Alferink. His Nissan hut home sits on a rise of red land. The word wel-kom emblazoned across a water tank on the roof. A wind and bicycle powered washing machine are in a shade house and there are more talc statues than locals. Living at Lyndhurst, a former Overland Telegraph post and Ghan train stop at the beginning of the Strzelecki Track, Talc Alf is an outback character who has become a fixture for Uluru bound backpackers and tourists. For 30 years he has chipped away at his beloved talc and pursued an obsession for unraveling what he declares to be the true meanings of alphabets and word origins. It is possible to quickly summarize Talc Alf's theory, which he demonstrates to visitors by taking random words and using a stick of talc to dissect them via pictograms scrawled on a makeshift blackboard within his outdoor gallery. At the age of sixteen he headed north, after a year on an outback station he th
( text reproduced just as on web site even though afu)