Drag race DCT vs standard, anybody done it?

[johnakay]

well my model is the RC63 according to my registration book and also states max net power 38 kw =51 bhp.
when I inquired at the bike shop from where I bought it from they to said it is the 51 bhp model.
like I said the dct is a much heavier bike than the standard geared model.
as for the A2 restricted models ,it never came about although there was talk of it but Honda UK never implemented due to the then newly release 500's.
maybe in the Europeans countries but not here.

 

[fleetingyouth]

This video is a hoax/scam. The 2 bikes in this video are both DCT models. You can see from the rear shot that they both have parking brake assemblies. You can also see on the forward view at the finish line that the brake lever is visible on the "clutch" model, but there is no clutch lever visible on the left grip. You can see the riders glove with no lever in front. Also note how, conveniently, there is no clear view of the left handlebar controls or the right side of the engine case, although in the finish line shot you can see the DCT clutch case bulge on the so called "clutch" bike. Furthermore, in the side by side view of the riders's front, the riders are either twin brothers dressed exactly alike, with their cameras hanging the same, or it's a misleading side by side composition.

Somebody please log into YouTube and bad mouth that video (I don't have an account there).

This doesn't prove anything. The question posed by the OP was for a DCT vs Manual Transmission race.

Its not a Hoax or scam though you are right they are both DCTs. He states right in the beginning that they are both DCTs and never hides that fact.

 

[StratTuner]

Drag raced several times with my neighbor who has a DCT. Beat him every time, but neither of us is very competitive or cares. No surprise really given the manual has 51 bhp vs. 47 for the DCT, and the DCT has a fair amount more weight. Automatics consume more power too vs. a manual generally, although the DCT technology is supposed to be very efficient. I can see the DCT coming out in front if someone is not experienced at shifting, but since I have raced for several years I am pretty good at it.

Did you ever switch rides? Did you still win on the DCT?

 

[Bodysnatcher]

Kinda defies logic that Honda would tune down the heavier bike unless they were afraid the gearbox couldn't handle the load or to try to compensate for the loss of fuel economy. Since the previous DCT incarnation was not a roaring success sales wise would it be good marketing in the US to say "hey let's charge them more for a weaker bike?" when the culture is "more horsepower is always better" here and an auto is a tough sell anyway?! None of the Dyno graphs I've seen show more than 49 hp for the standard gearbox so maybe the DCT was tuned up to compensate for the extra weight? Would this not also explain some of the MPG loss as well? Just thinking aloud... I'm happy with my DCT haha!

 

[anglachel]

Did you ever switch rides? Did you still win on the DCT?

THIS!


One of my former co-workers rides Harley. He and his buddy were out riding one day... he likes to just ride, he lets some one else handle the maintenance on his bike his buddy is a tinkerer and likes to putz with every part of the bike at every opportunity, they basically ride the same bike.

They pull out hard out of a stop light, and my co-worker pulls away easily... his buddy makes them stop, he tinkers with somethings, and then they go again, again my co-worker pulls away... they stop tinker, go again, same result... after 4-5 times, my co-worker says lets just switch bikes, and again my co-worker pulls away... his buddy just can't understand how he is always slower... they are hitting the same shift points, and riding nearly identical bikes.

After letting him think it over for a while, my co-worker points out it is a weight reduction problem. One rider weighted about 100 lbs less than the other...

 

[670cc]

Kinda defies logic that Honda would tune down the heavier bike unless they were afraid the gearbox couldn't handle the load or to try to compensate for the loss of fuel economy. Since the previous DCT incarnation was not a roaring success sales wise would it be good marketing in the US to say "hey let's charge them more for a weaker bike?" when the culture is "more horsepower is always better" here and an auto is a tough sell anyway?! None of the Dyno graphs I've seen show more than 49 hp for the standard gearbox so maybe the DCT was tuned up to compensate for the extra weight? Would this not also explain some of the MPG loss as well? Just thinking aloud... I'm happy with my DCT haha!

Most buyers of the DCT, or the NC700 in general, probably never gave any thought to the horsepower numbers when they made the purchase. I think the power disparity between the two is a topic hardly worth the time analyzing. For me, if the power was 10 hp either way, it would not have made a difference in my buying decision.

 

[Miweber929]

The DCT is not tuned down, the motor simply has far more moving parts which add quite a bit of weight to the moving parts of the motor which accounts for the lessened HP figure.


Pretty sure with like skilled riders the 0-60 times would be fairly close, though the DCT obviously shifts faster than a human ever could.

Not much else to discuss, really.

Mike

 

[Chris]

Honda pretty much messed up all communication on power outputs. For 2012 they released the bike with 38kw/51bhp on both manual and dct. Then in Europe for the 2013 model year they detuned to 35kw/47bhp to comply with the new A2 licence. Then at the end of 2014 they switched from the 700 to the 750 and took the power up to the current 54bhp.
However they managed to get all the numbers mixed up in different publications. I ended up contacting the Honda Suisse marketing manager and getting him to explain it to me.
Good engineers but not the best market planners or communicators

 

[davidc83]

This video is a hoax/scam. The 2 bikes in this video are both DCT models. You can see from the rear shot that they both have parking brake assemblies. You can also see on the forward view at the finish line that the brake lever is visible on the "clutch" model, but there is no clutch lever visible on the left grip. You can see the riders glove with no lever in front. Also note how, conveniently, there is no clear view of the left handlebar controls or the right side of the engine case, although in the finish line shot you can see the DCT clutch case bulge on the so called "clutch" bike. Furthermore, in the side by side view of the riders's front, the riders are either twin brothers dressed exactly alike, with their cameras hanging the same, or it's a misleading side by side composition.

Somebody please log into YouTube and bad mouth that video (I don't have an account there).

This doesn't prove anything. The question posed by the OP was for a DCT vs Manual Transmission race.

If anyone goes to the site and reads the comment, the owner does specify both bikes were only one bike and he was the rider and he simulated the manual version-he posted the comment 6 months ago:
"Some comments says this test is fake or wrong and that both bikes are dct version. I say in my comments and in the description: In this test I wanted to compare automatic and a manual clutch bike, which I had to simulate by throttling between each shift on my dct version. And yes it's me driving "both" bikes in this special effect, but I am only one person and it is only one bike. (I did two seperat runs on my dct)."

 

[dmerc]

Honda pretty much messed up all communication on power outputs. For 2012 they released the bike with 38kw/51bhp on both manual and dct. Then in Europe for the 2013 model year they detuned to 35kw/47bhp to comply with the new A2 licence. Then at the end of 2014 they switched from the 700 to the 750 and took the power up to the current 54bhp.
However they managed to get all the numbers mixed up in different publications. I ended up contacting the Honda Suisse marketing manager and getting him to explain it to me.

If I don't have 51HP I want my money back. False advertising and all that... Actually I think another poster has it right, it makes sense that the DCT would have a little less power due to the parasitic losses((extra parts and weight throwing more oil around.) So I guess I'll just have to like the bike as it is. And I do.

 

[johnakay]

who gives a monkey's dick what KW the bike has!
I'm happy as a pig is in muck with mine.

 

[BudK]

who gives a monkey's dick what KW the bike has!
I'm happy as a pig is in muck with mine.

Me too!

 

[Bodysnatcher]

Honda pretty much messed up all communication on power outputs. ... ... Actually I think another poster has it right, it makes sense that the DCT would have a little less power due to the parasitic losses((extra parts and weight throwing more oil around.) So I guess I'll just have to like the bike as it is. And I do.

Extra parts throwing oil around? I think this calls for another ENDLESS OIL THREAD mwaahaahaa!
(No No Please No !!!!)

 

[jesse096]

I've actually out shifted bikers many years my senior, on my manual 700. I usually shift without the clutch if i'm not cruising. I kinda brought that over from my quad riding days, I only use the clutch to stop and go on a quad, that's it.

-Jesse

 

[SergeantChuck]

I think this whole conversation is kind of funny because regardless of which one is faster than the other neither of them is very fast. It wasn't meant to be. I don't think the tern Drag RAce and NCX should be in the same sentence. There's got to be something better to debate.

 

[dmerc]

Extra parts throwing oil around? I think this calls for another ENDLESS OIL THREAD mwaahaahaa!
(No No Please No !!!!)

I'm up for it. The best oil in the world is whats on sale at Costco and a dollup of STP for a little zinc.

 

[Chris]

Extra parts throwing oil around? I think this calls for another ENDLESS OIL THREAD mwaahaahaa!
(No No Please No !!!!)

Definitely. We can all speculate on how much of the crankshaft power is absorbed by the DCT as I don't think any of the magazines managed to test it on the Dyno the way many of them did with the manual. Personally I doubt it's much different from the manual as the fuel consumption of both versions comes out about the same in all practical tests. Only thing is some of the requoting & editing manages to completely alter the meanings of original quotes by mixing up opinions from different posters in one quote. This opens up new potential for confusing everyone

 

[StratTuner]

They pull out hard out of a stop light, and my co-worker pulls away easily... his buddy makes them stop, he tinkers with somethings, and then they go again, again my co-worker pulls away... they stop tinker, go again, same result... after 4-5 times, my co-worker says lets just switch bikes, and again my co-worker pulls away... his buddy just can't understand how he is always slower... they are hitting the same shift points, and riding nearly identical bikes.

Chuck Yeager describes challenging another pilot to an aerial practice duel. (book: "The Right Stuff"). Chuck was able to stay on his tail constantly.
They land, and the other pilot says Chuck couldn't do that if they switched planes. They switch, Chuck waxes his tail again!
It really does matter who's driving.

 

[dmerc]

Chuck Yeager describes challenging another pilot to an aerial practice duel. (book: "The Right Stuff"). Chuck was able to stay on his tail constantly.
They land, and the other pilot says Chuck couldn't do that if they switched planes. They switch, Chuck waxes his tail again!
It really does matter who's driving.

And how much they weigh!!

 

[anglachel]

And how much they weigh!!

And how much wind drag they produce.