Valve Adjustment Step-By-Step

[Health&safetyman]

Hey Antarius

Very useful set of photos. Thank you. I've serviced by bike recently and I arrived at the same conclusion as you, the cam window had the marks pointing back at the crank, not the open valve cover, for TDC on the compression stroke. I put the bike back together and she runs like a peach. But here's the sting in the tail. I've been sent the Honda manual and it states that the marks for piston 1 & 2 respectively at TDC on the compression stroke should point towards the open valve cover.

So I've got my bike sitting in garage and I'm going to work in the car while I try and get someone at a Honda dealer to tell me why my bike is running so well, when according to their manual, it shouldn't. How's your bike running and how many miles have you done since the service.

Cheers
Health & Safety man

 

[L.B.S.]

Hey Antarius

Very useful set of photos. Thank you. I've serviced by bike recently and I arrived at the same conclusion as you, the cam window had the marks pointing back at the crank, not the open valve cover, for TDC on the compression stroke. I put the bike back together and she runs like a peach. But here's the sting in the tail. I've been sent the Honda manual and it states that the marks for piston 1 & 2 respectively at TDC on the compression stroke should point towards the open valve cover.

So I've got my bike sitting in garage and I'm going to work in the car while I try and get someone at a Honda dealer to tell me why my bike is running so well, when according to their manual, it shouldn't. How's your bike running and how many miles have you done since the service.

Cheers
Health & Safety man

Which manual? The Helm Honda OEM one, or another brand?

My Helm manual has the TDC for cyl one and cyl two showing: "[1] or [2] marks on the cam sprocket are to be aligned with the lower cylinder head index line"

"If the [1] mark is facing the upper cylinder head index line, turn the crankshaft counterclockwise one full turn (360*) and realign the [1T] mark with the index notch"

 

[Beemerphile]

What you will be doing is putting a 17mm socket on the LEFT side bolt -- the one behind the big cover a couple pictures up. You will turn that nut CLOCKWISE while looking at the picture below.

Antarius,

I just noticed this... The Helm manual states to turn the engine counterclockwise vs. clockwise as you suggest. Normally, for valve adjustments and most other service, the engine is advanced in the same direction as it would be operating, which in this case is counterclockwise viewed from the left side.

 

[Antarius]

Antarius,

I just noticed this... The Helm manual states to turn the engine counterclockwise vs. clockwise as you suggest. Normally, for valve adjustments and most other service, the engine is advanced in the same direction as it would be operating, which in this case is counterclockwise viewed from the left side.

Correct, but it really doesn't matter which way you turn it. Why? The (I know you know this, but for others), bike has two sets of "indicator" marks -- first the one to determine which cylinder you're working with (1 or 2), and the other alignment mark on the opposite side of the engine to make sure you are actually in the compression stroke -- and not top dead center on any other stroke. So it doesn't really matter which way you spin the motor to get there, as it will all only line up when you are at TOP DEAD CENTER on the COMPRESSION stroke either way, which is what you're going for.

I've had other bikes that have no COMPRESSION STROKE indicator -- simply a TDC indicator, and in that case it is important to rotate the motor in the direction it naturally spins otherwise you'll be chasing your tail until you finally give up and pull the valve cover off and actually watch the valves

In this case, you can turn the motor whichever way your heart desires, so long as in the end you have the #1 cylinder lined up, and the other mark on the opposite side lined up, indicating you are TDC on the CORRECT stroke.

 

[Antarius]

Hey Antarius

Very useful set of photos. Thank you. I've serviced by bike recently and I arrived at the same conclusion as you, the cam window had the marks pointing back at the crank, not the open valve cover, for TDC on the compression stroke. I put the bike back together and she runs like a peach. But here's the sting in the tail. I've been sent the Honda manual and it states that the marks for piston 1 & 2 respectively at TDC on the compression stroke should point towards the open valve cover.

So I've got my bike sitting in garage and I'm going to work in the car while I try and get someone at a Honda dealer to tell me why my bike is running so well, when according to their manual, it shouldn't. How's your bike running and how many miles have you done since the service.

Cheers
Health & Safety man

No, the marks per the OEM Honda manual should be pointing at the indicator mark on the cylinder head itself. Which is not vertical, it's a very obvious notch more rearward (towards the back of the motor, if you will). You were correct in your adjustment.

Oh, and another note to first-time valve adjusters:

If you find that all of your valves are either wayyyyyy too tight or wayyyyyyy too lose, check the alignment of the cylinder indicator *AND* the stroke indicator again. These motorcycles are made very well, and movement in the valves - albeit normal - is usually very slight, especially by 4000 or 8000 miles.

You will find a variance, sure, but for instance, all of my valves were about the same amount off, give or take a little here or there. If you find your intake valves are WAY loose and your EXHAUST valves are WAY tight, go check the alignment again before you adjust them. Same goes if you see a huge variance between the #1 and #2 cylinders.

 

[670cc]

Antarius,

I just noticed this... The Helm manual states to turn the engine counterclockwise vs. clockwise as you suggest. Normally, for valve adjustments and most other service, the engine is advanced in the same direction as it would be operating, which in this case is counterclockwise viewed from the left side.

Correct, but it really doesn't matter which way you turn it. Why? The (I know you know this, but for others), bike has two sets of "indicator" marks -- first the one to determine which cylinder you're working with (1 or 2), and the other alignment mark on the opposite side of the engine to make sure you are actually in the compression stroke -- and not top dead center on any other stroke. So it doesn't really matter which way you spin the motor to get there, as it will all only line up when you are at TOP DEAD CENTER on the COMPRESSION stroke either way, which is what you're going for.

I've had other bikes that have no COMPRESSION STROKE indicator -- simply a TDC indicator, and in that case it is important to rotate the motor in the direction it naturally spins otherwise you'll be chasing your tail until you finally give up and pull the valve cover off and actually watch the valves

In this case, you can turn the motor whichever way your heart desires, so long as in the end you have the #1 cylinder lined up, and the other mark on the opposite side lined up, indicating you are TDC on the CORRECT stroke.

I think we'd all be in agreement that you are "there" regardless of which direction you came from, but the point of going the same direction as the motor normally spins has do with other factors. The slack taken up by the cam chain sprockets and chain links, the wiping/ sliding action of the cam against the rockers, bearing loading, etc., could change the valve lash depending on which direction you approached from. One could successfully argue that those differences are minute and probably insignificant, but I think that was the point in suggesting the motor be rotated in the direction it normally spins.

 

[ray]

May I check that the cam sprocket marks (1 & 3) should align with the lower cylinder head index line (4) instead of (2)? At (2), all the valves were overly tight. I'm only at 7k km.

 

[dduelin]

May I check that the cam sprocket marks (1 & 3) should align with the lower cylinder head index line (4) instead of (2)? At (2), all the valves were overly tight. I'm only at 7k km.

Like previously noted by Antarius...........I agree that even if the clearance of a valve noted is less than specs there should be some clearance noted. If there is absolutely none...no clearance at all....then go back and make sure the cylinder being checked is at TDC or at least visually check the lobe on the camshaft is pointing away from the rocker arm. After checking my Honda service manual the index mark to use is at the bottom [4].

It would be very unusual that there is no clearance what so ever when checked and the bike was running well before the valve check. If both valves being checked don't have any clearance send up the double red flag and check for TDC.


Edit to correct location of index mark

 

[ray]

Like previously noted by Antarius...........I agree that even if the clearance of a valve noted is less than specs there should be some clearance noted. If there is absolutely none...no clearance at all....then go back and make sure the cylinder being checked is at TDC or at least visually check the lobe on the camshaft is pointing away from the rocker arm. I can't look at a manual or my bike right now but I recall the index mark to use is at the top [2].

It would be very unusual that there is no clearance what so ever when checked and the bike was running well before the valve check. If both valves being checked don't have any clearance send up the double red flag and check for TDC.

Got it? Okay, great! You have now moved cylinder NUMBER ONE to TOP DEAD CENTER. You now need to make sure it's on the compression stroke. How do we do that? Remember that plastic-like cover we just removed from the RIGHT side of the motorcycle?

View attachment 9581
Make sure the line on the inside of the inspection cover lines up with the raised mark placed on the outside of the cylinder itself. In a lot of motorcycles -- mine included -- there's a "range," in other words, two lines on the camshaft itself. Just center them over that mark. This isn't rocket science here, so just take your time and do your best, it will be good enough.

Which manual? The Helm Honda OEM one, or another brand?

My Helm manual has the TDC for cyl one and cyl two showing: "[1] or [2] marks on the cam sprocket are to be aligned with the lower cylinder head index line"

"If the [1] mark is facing the upper cylinder head index line, turn the crankshaft counterclockwise one full turn (360*) and realign the [1T] mark with the index notch"

Looking at Antarius and LBS postings, it is aligning with (4). Anybody can confirm which is correct pls? Now don't dare to ride the bike :sweat:

 

[L.B.S.]

Looking at Antarius and LBS postings, it is aligning with (4). Anybody can confirm which is correct pls? Now don't dare to ride the bike :sweat:

Turn the engine one revolution counter clockwise and check the appropriate cylinder's valve lash again. If *all* your valves are "overly tight" with such low mileage, it does seem more likely that you are simply on the wrong index mark, or mixing left cylinder for right and vice versa.

I can only repeat what my Helm manual says. It lists two cylinder head index marks, one upper and one lower. It says if the mark on the cam sprocket is facing the upper, to turn 360 (or 270, depending on cyl one or cyl two, of course) and make it face the lower.

Also, don't just check the actual feeler gauge stuck in to see, wiggle the (again, appropriate cylinder) rocker arms. If the rocker arms don't move, the engine isn't at the correct setting. If the rocker arms slide freely side to side, then look to confirm that the index marks are ligned up, and now check with the feeler gauge.

Are you positive you have the correct feeler thicknesses? Not mixing mm with standard? Exhaust with intake?

PS "overly tight" can be subjective, as well. Without knowing exactly what the drag feel is or the specific feeler thickness you used to determine this, well, that's another variable.

 

[duk2n]

I can only repeat what my Helm manual says. It lists two cylinder head index marks, one upper and one lower. It says if the mark on the cam sprocket is facing the upper, to turn 360 and make it face the lower

So, our european manual says the opposite?



Please, could you double check? Just trying to determine the right method, this is important...

 

[ray]

So, our european manual says the opposite?

View attachment 11358

Please, could you double check? Just trying to determine the right method, this is important...

Seems like. Following this instruction, all valves are overly tight.

PS "overly tight" can be subjective, as well. Without knowing exactly what the drag feel is or the specific feeler thickness you used to determine this, well, that's another variable.

Thanks. I realized this is quite subjective. So what I did was to make sure the 009 and 013 imperial guages couldn't slide in after adjustments. Most of the clearances are spot on if aligned to the lower index mark (4).

 

[L.B.S.]

duk2n, when you say: "Our European manual", is it the Official Honda Helm manual, or a Private Company/Seller's manual?

The only other manual that I know of that is not Helm, has the valve adjust info wrong.

If it doesn't look like this, it's not the Honda one that I can say, without seeing any other evidence to my knowledge:


(I trust I am not angering the "Thou Shalt Not" Gods of Forum Deities, by posting these cropped pictures...)

 

[duk2n]

Hey LBS, thanks for that

Yo got a private message

 

[ray]

Thanks LBS. Followed the 2 pics

 

[duk2n]

BTW, anyone noticed there is a new service manual in the Helm Inc web site?

Part number 61MGS02: 2012-2014 NC700X/XD Service Manual - Helm Incorporated

 

[ray]

BTW, anyone noticed there is a new service manual in the Helm Inc web site?

Part number 61MGS02: 2012-2014 NC700X/XD Service Manual - Helm Incorporated

Yes, usually they just supply a few stickers to paste over the original 61MGS00, and printouts of any changed contents, since not many changes from 2012 to 2014.

 

[Antarius]

It is the "bottom" mark as per the manual, or the #4 in your picture.

Don't forget, the cylinder is tilted forward when in the frame and not vertical as in that picture. When the motor is in the frame, the mark to use is the mark closer to the back of the motorcycle.

 

[ray]

It is the "bottom" mark as per the manual, or the #4 in your picture.

Don't forget, the cylinder is tilted forward when in the frame and not vertical as in that picture. When the motor is in the frame, the mark to use is the mark closer to the back of the motorcycle.

Thanks, got it

 

[Lou Wambsganss]

I think we'd all be in agreement that you are "there" regardless of which direction you came from, but the point of going the same direction as the motor normally spins has do with other factors. The slack taken up by the cam chain sprockets and chain links, the wiping/ sliding action of the cam against the rockers, bearing loading, etc., could change the valve lash depending on which direction you approached from. One could successfully argue that those differences are minute and probably insignificant, but I think that was the point in suggesting the motor be rotated in the direction it normally spins.

I would have to agree here. Whether it is in a car, truck, motorcycle, with a timing belt, chain, etc. No matter the engine, it is generally bad practice to counter-rotate (go opposite of the direction the crankshaft normally turns). My main concern is the cam drive (chain or belt) and tensioners. The system is designed to take full tension on one side and only to take up the slack on the other side. When counter-rotating, all the load of fighting the valve springs is placed on the tensioner instead of the free side of the chain. Most tensioners probably won't mind this, but just in case, it is always safer to not counter-rotate.

If you pass up the mark you were aiming for, just keep going around in the normal direction until you reach it again. In the case of the NC700X engine, the crankshaft should only be rotated counterclockwise through the access plug on the LH side on the engine.