Brakes - Manual vs. ABS

[Thomasec]

What do you current owners think of the brakes on the NC? I know that the ABS version is great and includes the combined (linked) braking feature (rear braking also proportionally activates the front brake.) I am especially interested in those that may have the standard manual brake set-up. Some Honda bikes (even WITHOUT ABS) have a combined brake set-up. Does anyone know if the manual version operates in this combined fashion?

 

[WMU_BRONCO]

I wish someone would respond to this post because I am very interested in the brakss on the NC700.

 

[scrumpymike]

CABS is standard in the UK but I'm pretty sure the non-ABS brakes are still combined. Safest bet is to ask yr dealer tho.

 

[Thomasec]

Dealers here in the US know very little and basically just what is up on the Honda Powersports website. That info doesn't mention if the non-ABS version includes the combined braking feature. We need to hear from our friends overseas on that one.

 

[Rev Ken]

Personally I think the modern ABS systems are so good I wouldn't consider a new bike unless they were fitted...

 

[Thomasec]

Indeed and I agree totally. Our friends up north in Canada get the NC700XA (with ABS) while us loafers here in the USA only get the plain (manual brake) NC700X. If we want ABS, we have to also get the DCT auto transmission (not offered separately and costs $2000 more.) Scandalous! Maybe Honda USA will change their minds for a future model year, but if we want the manual six speed NC this year, we have no choice.

 

[tanserf]

Thomasec
tanserf's hubby again, when we went to look at the bike, at 2 dealers we were told 'they come with ABS' which should have read: 'there is a model with ABS'. We have then the 'base model', ie without any gizmos. No ABS and I believe no dual brakes. AFAIK this is the only model currently available in SA. I stand corrected. As far as actual brake performance is concerned, this is no super bike, and the brake performance is accordingly. in the 5000 km that we have done, we have not found the brakes wanting. One disc out front and one back, I find the brakes adequate, it is surely up to its task. This bike does not belong on a track, for any other use it is good.
I hope you find this useful!
Go safe

 

[Thomasec]

Hi Tanserf . . . thanks for that and was what I expected. Not expecting super brakes for manual operation. They just need to be good brakes. The linked brake feature would have been nice and I liked the feel of it on the couple of bikes I've ridden that had it (rear brake operation, when linked to front, is quite stable and positive.)

 

[WMU_BRONCO]

On the Honda VFR800 all bikes with and without ABS had linked brake system. Linked brakes are nice. But I would have no use for linked brakes without ABS. I want ABS, but not bad enough to take the DCT. With the DCT your bike jumps from 473 pound to 505 pounds. That is just too much of a weight penalty IMHO.

 

[turbodieseli4i6]

My GL1200 Goldwing has linked brakes, I like them a lot!
ABS may be great, but I want a bike that doesn't have very many electronics.
The less it has the happier I am.
Maybe next time around I'll get all the bells and whistles, but I'll be happy with the linked brakes, fuel injection and fewer computers.

 

[Rev Ken]

My dad's Rudge 500 had linked brakes in the 30s - operated by the front brake by two cables - it's good we are catching up.....

 

[happy]

In Switzerland, we only get the ABS versions.
I think it is added insurance on roads.
It cannot be deactivated when going offroad. But then seriously who goes offroad with these bikes?

 

[WMU_BRONCO]

ABS Articles

Popular Mechanics
Honda Motorcycles Combined ABS - Popular Mechanics

Consumer Reports
The most-valuable motorcycle feature: antilock brakes

Government
http://www.iihs.org/brochures/pdf/motorcycle_abs.pdf

 

[Grinderboy]

In Switzerland, we only get the ABS versions.
I think it is added insurance on roads.
It cannot be deactivated when going offroad. But then seriously who goes offroad with these bikes?

I have occasionally taken my NC with ABS/linked brakes into loose gravel curves too fast.

Non-linked, Non-ABS brakes allow you to lock the rear tire just enough to swing the rear wheel to the outside of the curve, turn the front wheel to the inside of the curve and then hit the throttle to push the bike back towards the inside of the turn.

On this bike (ABS/Linked), I found it hard to get the slide started (ABS=no lock up) on the rear and the front wheel (linked brakes) also lost some grip preventing the front tire from turning the bike back to the inside of the curve.

So......be careful braking on gravel in curves with ABS/Linked brakes.

Tires are fine on hard off road, but not enough suspension to enjoy washboarded gravel roads. You will be reminded it is time to slow down.

I am not an advanced rider, but I have noticed that the better the rider is, the less important the bike. Good riders can make
any bike do more than riders with less abilities, regardless of the condititions.

In closing this bike can do off road if you learn to work with the suspension/ABS/Linked Brakes.

 

[Billy Budd]

I have never ridden an ABS bike, my GW has linked brakes that work well. ABS braking can save your bacon in a panic or hard braking situation, so can regular brakes with practice and quality seat time.

 

[bo7o]

In my research it seems that abs brakes are just better. Experienced riders on bikes with and without abs just cannot brake as quickly on the bike with no abs. I know it's an emotive subject, but on any experiments I've seen the abs wins for realistic scenarios.
It's one thing of concern for me about buying nc700x since I don't want the auto clutch. But it's probably not enough to stop buying this bike, though I'd be a happy guy if Honda brings the manual with abs to the US.
From IIHS:

The rate of fatal crashes is 37 percent lower for motorcycles equipped with optional ABS than for those same models without ABS.
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, 2011

Shorter stopping distances
On the test track, both new and experienced riders stop more quickly with antilock brakes. Stopping distances improve on wet and dry surfaces alike.
Austrian Road Safety Board, 2004;
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 2006

 

[dduelin]

From IIHS:

Snipped .......The rate of fatal crashes is 37 percent lower for motorcycles equipped with optional ABS than for those same models without ABS.
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, 2011.........

This is not actually correct. The IIHS study says that as a group ABS bikes have lower accident and fatality rates compared to motorcycles without ABS. This is a critical difference. They did not compare the "same models that have optional ABS" in an ABS group and a non ABS group to see the difference in accident rates between these two "same" models.

Broadly it could be that riders that see the advantages of ABS and are willing to pay for it are also more safety conscious as a group and see the benefits of buying and using protective gear for themselves and by extension see ABS in the same light. This group may also see the benefits of rider training and actively practice what they learn as part of continuing education in their riding careers. Simply put, they are safer riders and are more likely not to take the same risks as riders that do not see risk clearly or it they do, care about mitigating risk. While not changing the conclusion that ABS lowers accident rates this shifts the paradigm that it is the equipment alone that produces the 37%. The actual figure will be much lower when accounting for rider factors - not rider skill, but mental attitude and forethought.

 

[bo7o]

If it not correct then it is an error in the IIHS PDF, that quote was not my summary or commentary - it is a direct copy and paste from the document.

http://www.iihs.org/brochures/motorcycleABS.html

 

[Rocker66]

I rode for many years before ABS was available on bikes but having used it in recent years I would not want to return to non ABS bikes. Any device that gives me an edge is fine by me

 

[Billy Budd]

These pics are me after a crash on a non-ABS bike. Would they have prevented it? Maybe. What would have prevented it for sure would have been if I approached the corner at a speed that matched my ability at the time. I did this on an XR650R at about 70 miles per hour on a dirt trail. Too much rear brake and not enough proper speed shedding in the turn entry. I tore off about 25% of my quadricep and the knee had a torn ACL and ruptured bursa sac. Oh and I had to get back on and ride 6 miles back to camp. Point is I may have made that corner 9 times out of 10, this was the tenth time. Dirt bikes need a non ABS system to use the rear wheel to control slides and surface conditions with brake and throttle.