fender cracked after installing extender

[glenbo]

I just used waterproof silicone sealant and did the same on my previous bike. Never became loose in 5 winters of riding so am pretty sure the one on the NC is going no where.

I used 3M double-sided sticky tape that's really super sticky. It is fixed hard onto the fender, I don't think I could pry it off without doing some damage. After being on there 3 months, it's not going to come loose unless I ride in an extended flood.

 

[StratTuner]

If you want to use pop rivets, you can google pop rivet instructions and find step by step instructions. You can also get washers for pop rivets and it would be a good idea to use them in this application since you are riveting two fairly thin pieces of plastic.

Bob

I bought a small pop rivet gun today ($10), and some 5mm rivets. Tit works, but the end that doesn't show sticks out more than I'd like and the top doesn't look ....right....there's still a metal shave sticking out of it. I suppose one just uses wire cutters to cut that off. I'll try to find a youtube video on how to use these tools correctly. It's not as neat as I remember.

watching youtube reveals that you have to clamp down on the gun at least two times, and on the third, it snaps off the metal shaft I mentioned. Those of you who work with rivet guns all the time will find this discovery... a little obvious, but it's not obvious if you haven't seen it done! (smile)

 

[westgl]

Those fenders if like most Honda items are easily repairable ABS plastic

I repaired some cracks in goldwing saddle bags, using ABS glue from lowes, by opening the crack slightly from the under side and with a tooth pick apply the abs glue

First remove the extenda fender, then glue, and clamp/hold cracked area together until dry, read instructions on the ABS glue can, i believe it was fast setting but just to make sure.

I could not tell it after i repaired my Goldwings saddle bags

I would make sure that these are ABS plastic, as most all Hondas were, but technology is always changing, they also have a plastic welder that does the same thing google it

 

[johnakay]

kept ma fingers to ma self but can no longer resist.
as for lock tight causing the fender to crack is a load of bollocks.
over tighten will be the cause of the fender cracking.
lock tight may cause chemical reaction to the paint or plastic but definitely not that long crack.
on some thing that can easily break if over tightened I use a little silicon on the nut..
finger tight 1st and then 1/4 turn that should be enough.

 

[showkey]

kept ma fingers to ma self but can no longer resist.
as for lock tight causing the fender to crack is a load of bollocks.
over tighten will be the cause of the fender cracking.
lock tight may cause chemical reaction to the paint or plastic but definitely not that long crack.
on some thing that can easily break if over tightened I use a little silicon on the nut..
finger tight 1st and then 1/4 turn that should be enough.

Maybe .........maybe not^^^^^^^^^^^^


Read the last line on the blue LOCTITE site........mentions stress cracking on plastic:

Loctite Threadlocker Blue 242 from Loctite Adhesives

It (warning) is not clear on the root cause chemical reaction or other cause........either way they do not recommend using it on plastic.

 

[670cc]

I bought a small pop rivet gun today ($10), and some 5mm rivets. Tit works, but the end that doesn't show sticks out more than I'd like and the top doesn't look ....right....there's still a metal shave sticking out of it. I suppose one just uses wire cutters to cut that off. I'll try to find a youtube video on how to use these tools correctly. It's not as neat as I remember.

watching youtube reveals that you have to clamp down on the gun at least two times, and on the third, it snaps off the metal shaft I mentioned. Those of you who work with rivet guns all the time will find this discovery... a little obvious, but it's not obvious if you haven't seen it done! (smile)

Strat, did you use the back up washers on the back side of the Extenda plastic as mentioned in Spaceteach's post? If you have metal sticking out of the rivet's center hole, it makes me wonder if the center pin was pulled through the material too far. The pin is supposed to break at a predetermined weak spot which should remain below the head of the rivet after it breaks, unless it pulled through too far. To be safe, you may want to take a look at the back side and inspect where the "bulge" is in the rivet body, in case it's about to pull through the material.

Hope it's OK, but it sounded suspicious.

Greg

 

[StratTuner]

Strat, did you use the back up washers on the back side of the Extenda plastic as mentioned in Spaceteach's post? If you have metal sticking out of the rivet's center hole, it makes me wonder if the center pin was pulled through the material too far. The pin is supposed to break at a predetermined weak spot which should remain below the head of the rivet after it breaks, unless it pulled through too far. To be safe, you may want to take a look at the back side and inspect where the "bulge" is in the rivet body, in case it's about to pull through the material.

Hope it's OK, but it sounded suspicious.

Greg

It sounds suspicious because I'm not experienced. I haven't attached the fenda yet because I'm still learning how pop rivets work. I need more practice. Watching the tutorial, I learn that you really should pump the rivet-gun handle UNTIL the top shaft breaks off. In my first attempt, I compressed it all the way, one time, and then slid the gun off the metal post and said to myself "that doesn't look how i remember it!". I'm going to rivet different things together, waste a lot of rivets, before I do that to my beloved NC700x. The top of the rivet should be nearly flat...it looks like from the photo....what does the other side look like when it's done right?

Things I THINK I know:

• pre-drill the holes so rivets slip in easily
• use a neoprene/rubber washer under the rivet on the top
• coat the rivet's underside with clear silicone sealant after I've gunned the rivet
• measure twice, cut once

I've been following this post and will re-read it again the day I do the work.
Have I missed anything so far?

 

[showkey]

It sounds suspicious because I'm not experienced. I haven't attached the fenda yet because I'm still learning how pop rivets work. I need more practice. Watching the tutorial, I learn that you really should pump the rivet-gun handle UNTIL the top shaft breaks off. In my first attempt, I compressed it all the way, one time, and then slid the gun off the metal post and said to myself "that doesn't look how i remember it!". I'm going to rivet different things together, waste a lot of rivets, before I do that to my beloved NC700x. The top of the rivet should be nearly flat...it looks like from the photo....what does the other side look like when it's done right?

Things I THINK I know:

• pre-drill the holes so rivets slip in easily
• use a neoprene/rubber washer under the rivet on the top
• coat the rivet's underside with clear silicone sealant after I've gunned the rivet
• measure twice, cut once

I've been following this post and will re-read it again the day I do the work.
Have I missed anything so far?

There a million ways to do this, not to turn this into an oil thread ..........but I would not use the rubber washer (for cleaner look) I would use a metal (aluminum) washer on the inside against the extender, use a 1/8" 100% all aluminum rivet 1/8" hole, (drill the exact size no bigger no smaller)(there are different rivet material combinations) and thus skip the silicone sealant no need on aluminum and plastic.



Note: by rivet material combination there is a aluminum rivet with a steel pull shank that applies extra tension on the rivet, I think that is not a good idea for this application and not needed.

 

[Spaceteach]

Strat,
Showkey gave you good advice, and you are wise to test the process on some scrap before doing it for real. Here are the steps I would take:

1. Drill hole the same size as rivet you are going to use. If there is some friction when you try to push the rivet into the hole that's ok, but you don't want it so tight you have to really push hard. By the same token, you don't want the hole too loose. If you just drill straight into the material with the same size drill as the rivet without wallowing the bit around you should be perfect.
2. Insert the rivet into the gun.
3. Insert the rivet into the hole you drilled.
4. Slide a metal pop rivet washer onto the rivet from the back side.
5. Pump the rivet gun until the rivet shaft pops off. Don't worry about how many times to pump the gun. It will depend on the gun you are using and the length and material of the rivet you are using. Just keep pumping until the rivet shaft breaks.

After the riveting is complete, if you look at the back side of the rivet you will see how it has expanded. The reason for the washer is to keep the expansion from putting stress on the holes you drilled in the plastic. The washer keeps all the expansion on the back side of the material instead of in the holes. When you look at the back of the rivet, you will find that, as you have noticed, even a properly installed pop rivet is not a thing of beauty. As long as the metal has expanded enough to keep the washer secure, you are good to go. One other thing to remember is a rivet is not a threaded fastener. It's limited in its ability to squeeze the fender and extender together, so when you install the rivet, make sure the two pieces you are riveting are in tight contact.

Bob

 

[StratTuner]

Note: by rivet material combination there is a aluminum rivet with a steel pull shank that applies extra tension on the rivet, I think that is not a good idea for this application and not needed.

I don't understand this part... at all.

I have a pop rivet gun with aluminum rivets (need to check that not even sure what size rivets)...
There's something else I could use? Bolts... I suppose...but it wouldn't look as "finished" as what you did.

I'm sure there are many,man ways to do this, but I don't know even just ONE yet. (smile)
I'm trying to compile a list of things to do that will produce your result....
You did a certain number of steps, in a particular order, with prarticular parts to get that result. I'm just trying to copy that.

 

[StratTuner]

Strat,
Showkey gave you good advice, and you are wise to test the process on some scrap before doing it for real. Here are the steps I would take:

1. Drill hole the same size as rivet you are going to use. If there is some friction when you try to push the rivet into the hole that's ok, but you don't want it so tight you have to really push hard. By the same token, you don't want the hole too loose. If you just drill straight into the material with the same size drill as the rivet without wallowing the bit around you should be perfect.
2. Insert the rivet into the gun.
3. Insert the rivet into the hole you drilled.
4. Slide a metal pop rivet washer onto the rivet from the back side.
5. Pump the rivet gun until the rivet shaft pops off. Don't worry about how many times to pump the gun. It will depend on the gun you are using and the length and material of the rivet you are using. Just keep pumping until the rivet shaft breaks.

After the riveting is complete, if you look at the back side of the rivet you will see how it has expanded. The reason for the washer is to keep the expansion from putting stress on the holes you drilled in the plastic. The washer keeps all the expansion on the back side of the material instead of in the holes. When you look at the back of the rivet, you will find that, as you have noticed, even a properly installed pop rivet is not a thing of beauty. As long as the metal has expanded enough to keep the washer secure, you are good to go. One other thing to remember is a rivet is not a threaded fastener. It's limited in its ability to squeeze the fender and extender together, so when you install the rivet, make sure the two pieces you are riveting are in tight contact.

Bob

Thanks for explaining where the washer goes. (first bolded text) I presume I an use any aluminum washer that fits... There aren't special "pop rivet" washers? are there?

I'm going to pop rivet some items together.... see if the fit is snug. I wonder what one does if the fit is NOT snug? hhmmm... I think more practice is in order.

 

[L.B.S.]

Thanks for explaining where the washer goes. (first bolded text) I presume I an use any aluminum washer that fits... There aren't special "pop rivet" washers? are there?

I'm going to pop rivet some items together.... see if the fit is snug. I wonder what one does if the fit is NOT snug? hhmmm... I think more practice is in order.

(Not to interrupt or speak out of place for showkey or spaceteach)

You drill the rivet out carefully and do it over again. Definitely practice, it does take a bit to get the hang of it. There are Pop Rivet washers. They are aluminum, and they are sized properly for each application. For me, it's hard to find exactly those size and material washers, of the appropriate thickness, etc.

And make sure you get the correct length of rivet! You don't want too much excess material left behind the rivet, and too short, it might not catch properly.

Another thing I'd suggest, is to mummify the surrounding parts in masking tape, or tape a cushy rag or something all around within a few inches of the top surface at the rivet location. If you are not prepared, the "pop" of the pop rivet can make the tool jump back unexpectedly, and then you smack into and/or scratch the nicely painted part beside the rivet. That sucks. Don't ask how I know this sucks.

Like if you are drilling something thin, and you are pushing a little bit too hard on the drill. You suddenly have zero resistance, and you thwack into the surface with the drill chuck, gouging or denting it up. You need to plan ahead for this, to avoid filling the Swear Jar again.

 

[StratTuner]

(Not to interrupt or speak out of place for showkey or spaceteach)

You drill the rivet out carefully and do it over again. Definitely practice, it does take a bit to get the hang of it. There are Pop Rivet washers. They are aluminum, and they are sized properly for each application. For me, it's hard to find exactly those size and material washers, of the appropriate thickness, etc.

And make sure you get the correct length of rivet! You don't want too much excess material left behind the rivet, and too short, it might not catch properly.

Another thing I'd suggest, is to mummify the surrounding parts in masking tape, or tape a cushy rag or something all around within a few inches of the top surface at the rivet location. If you are not prepared, the "pop" of the pop rivet can make the tool jump back unexpectedly, and then you smack into and/or scratch the nicely painted part beside the rivet. That sucks. Don't ask how I know this sucks.

Like if you are drilling something thin, and you are pushing a little bit too hard on the drill. You suddenly have zero resistance, and you thwack into the surface with the drill chuck, gouging or denting it up. You need to plan ahead for this, to avoid filling the Swear Jar again.

At the local Home Depot, I noticed there were 3 mm and 5 mm. I bought 5 mm.... does that refer to the length? Which would you use? How do you tell how "long" a rivet is? It seems really long when it's in the package, but it gets a lot shorter after you gun it!

 

[L.B.S.]

At the local Home Depot, I noticed there were 3 mm and 5 mm. I bought 5 mm.... does that refer to the length? Which would you use? How do you tell how "long" a rivet is? It seems really long when it's in the package, but it gets a lot shorter after you gun it!

The 3mm and 5mm should be referring to the diametre, not the length. It will say on the package as well, the rivet body length or "grip".

 

[StratTuner]

OK.! Deal... what is the correct "grip/body length" for this application?

I will go home for lunch and see if I can find the word "grip" or "rivet body length" on the package I have...use that as a point of reference.

 

[L.B.S.]

OK.! Deal... what is the correct "grip/body length" for this application?

I will go home for lunch and see if I can find the word "grip" or "rivet body length" on the package I have...use that as a point of reference.

You would want to estimate as best you can, the combined thickness of the two things you want to join together, and make sure the rivet is long enough to go through both, ok. If the Extenda is (for example- I don't know what they really are offhand, sorry) 3/8" + the bike fender @ 1/4" then you'd try for say a 1/2" rivet length, etc.

Don't forget to take into account the thickness of any glue, adhesive, or double stick tape etc., when doing the thickness estimate!

You can pretty easily see what the rivet length is in the package, but it's always written on the front-

Are these pictures showing up for you ok?

 

[hozabah]

You would want to estimate as best you can, the combined thickness of the two things you want to join together, and make sure the rivet is long enough to go through both, ok. If the Extenda is (for example- I don't know what they really are offhand, sorry) 3/8" + the bike fender @ 1/4" then you'd try for say a 1/2" rivet length, etc.

Don't forget to take into account the thickness of any glue, adhesive, or double stick tape etc., when doing the thickness estimate!

You can pretty easily see what the rivet length is in the package, but it's always written on the front-

Are these pictures showing up for you ok?

View attachment 3904

View attachment 3905

Strat, I tried one of those $10 guns and rivets from Harbor Freight for another project and got poor results.

I then bought a $20 gun and arrow rivets and washers and achieved the results I desired

go to Lowes and get Arrow aluminum 1/8" 3mm MEDIUM sized rivets and 1/8" washers and use a 1/8" drill bit... they don't cost much, you get 100 rivets and 30 washers so you can practice. If the gun sucks.. get a good one

I used two rivets/two washers towards the bottom of the fender / top of extender and LOCTITE PL Premium construction adhesive clamped overnight.... hell PM me your address and I'll mail ya a couple good rivets and washers in an envelope

 

[StratTuner]

I hadn't seen your post yet, so I went at lunch and got 5mm 1/8" and 5mm washers... same 1/8" but a little bigger diameter 5mm not 3mm.
I think that will work, but I do so appreciate your specificity! I need that.

 

[L.B.S.]

I hadn't seen your post yet, so I went at lunch and got 5mm 1/8" and 5mm washers... same 1/8" but a little bigger diameter 5mm not 3mm.
I think that will work, but I do so appreciate your specificity! I need that.

The fractional inch measurement is the approximate metric measurement, for the diametre.

1/8" diametre = 3mm in diametre (you can get these in short/medium/long)

5/32" = 4mm (you can get these in short/medium/long)

3/16" = 5mm (you can get these in short/medium/long)

Etc.



What was the length of rivet you got? Short (1/8") medium (1/4") or Long (1/2") ?

 

[StratTuner]

The fractional inch measurement is the approximate metric measurement, for the diametre.

1/8" diametre = 3mm in diametre (you can get these in short/medium/long)

5/32" = 4mm (you can get these in short/medium/long)

3/16" = 5mm (you can get these in short/medium/long)

Etc.



What was the length of rivet you got? Short (1/8") medium (1/4") or Long (1/2") ?

short: 1/8 LENGTH

I'll make sure that's so before I proceed.