Fuse question

[ste7ios]

•The maximum power rating of connected accessories is 12 W (12 V, 1 A)
• Use accessories with the engine running to avoid discharging the battery.
• Switch the headlight to low beam when accessories are connected to avoid discharging the battery.
• Do not use a cigarette lighter, as this can cause a malfunction.

This is from the socket manual...

 

[670cc]

•The maximum power rating of connected accessories is 12 W (12 V, 1 A)
• Use accessories with the engine running to avoid discharging the battery.
• Switch the headlight to low beam when accessories are connected to avoid discharging the battery.
• Do not use a cigarette lighter, as this can cause a malfunction.

This is from the socket manual...

"Switch the headlight to low beam" gave me a chuckle. Yep, you wouldn't want the full 60 watter running along with your phone. Best to use the 55 watt beam! Can that really make or break the electrical system? Surprised they don't tell you to avoid turning when using your accessory so as to save power from the turn signals.

Sounds like an Oliver Wendell Douglas situation.

 

[Spaceteach]

For anyone with concerns about the power handling capability of the Honda socket, there are a lot of alternatives.
I bought my NC back in 2012 and at that time Honda was having problems keeping accessories for the bike in stock. This caused many of us to start shopping for other sources of accessories. A few of us just ordered a Blue Sea marine 12v accessory socket from Amazon. While Amazon doesn't list the current rating on their site, a quick Google search shows that it's rated for up to 15 amps. Amazon also has several other marine grade (water resistant or waterproof) sockets available. The Blue Sea does not include wiring, so you need to get a couple feet of wire and a fuse in addition to the socket, but those are pretty easy to find, and some of the other brands Amazon sells include wiring and fuse. The Blue Sea sells for about $8, so compared to the cost of the genuine Honda accessory socket (IIRC Honda wants around $70) you should have more than enough funds left over to cover the cost of wire and fuse.

Don't get me wrong, there are some definite advantages to the Honda socket. It's truly plug and play since it includes the wiring and connectors to plug into the sub-harness. With the aftermarket solutions you have to make your own connections and I would recommend using the Honda sub harness and relay kit even if you install an aftermarket socket.

Just sayin'

Bob

 

[Agent]

But, with the Honda sub-harness and relay kit, you're still limited by the 7.5 amp fuse that runs the system, aren't you? It would be silly to put a 15 amp fuse after a 7.5.

Also, I seem to recall a very detailed thread about battery drain from wiring too much directly to the battery, but I can't find it. All I'm ever going to use the outlet for is to charge the phone or the kindle. If my phone charger blows the fuse on the Honda outlet, we've got bigger problems.

 

[670cc]

But, with the Honda sub-harness and relay kit, you're still limited by the 7.5 amp fuse that runs the system, aren't you? It would be silly to put a 15 amp fuse after a 7.5.

That's right, it would be silly. But, I don't see in this thread any suggestion of putting a 15 amp fuse after the sub harness 7.5 amp fuse. What are you referring too?

 

[Agent]

A few of us just ordered a Blue Sea marine 12v accessory socket from Amazon. While Amazon doesn't list the current rating on their site, a quick Google search shows that it's rated for up to 15 amps.
...

With the aftermarket solutions you have to make your own connections and I would recommend using the Honda sub harness and relay kit even if you install an aftermarket socket.

I guess I misread. It doesn't say directly to put a 15 amp fuse into the circuit, just that the Blue Sea is capable of handling it. My thought process was that wiring it after the Honda relay would essentially limit the power to 7.5 amps no matter what the accessory could handle. I see now that the Blue Sea outlet doesn't have a fuse like the Honda.

My apologies.

 

[670cc]

I guess I misread. It doesn't say directly to put a 15 amp fuse into the circuit, just that the Blue Sea is capable of handling it. My thought process was that wiring it after the Honda relay would essentially limit the power to 7.5 amps no matter what the accessory could handle. I see now that the Blue Sea outlet doesn't have a fuse like the Honda.

My apologies.

No problem. The 15 amp capable marine socket would be wired direct to the battery with an in-line 15 amp fuse. The Honda harness and fuse would not be involved. That is what I have done. That way I can run a tire pump if neded. Also, since it's unswitched, I can charge my phone while the bike is off, say during the evening while camping. I can also charge the motorcycle's battery through the frunk socket.

 

[Spaceteach]

Agent,
If you are referring to my post about the aftermarket socket, I wasn't suggesting using a 15 amp fuse. the 15 amps is just what the socket is rated to handle. In my case the only things plugged into the sub harness are a 1 amp USB port mounted on the handlebar and the accessory socket mounted in the frunk. Since the sub harness is rated to handle 7.5 amps total, I put a 5 amp fuse in the socket wiring. My thinking was that limiting the socket to 5A and the USB port to 1A would result in a maximum of 6 amps ever going through the sub-harness, which should be safely below its 7.5 amp rating.

Bob

 

[ste7ios]

"Switch the headlight to low beam" gave me a chuckle. Yep, you wouldn't want the full 60 watter running along with your phone. Best to use the 55 watt beam! Can that really make or break the electrical system? Surprised they don't tell you to avoid turning when using your accessory so as to save power from the turn signals.

Sounds like an Oliver Wendell Douglas situation.

View attachment 17939

This is normal for 99,999% of motorcycles out there... It refers to the capability of the magneto / generator which is small especially on idling. Also don't forget that a generator gives it's maximum output when it's running at 5,000 rpm and this is something very rare for the NC...

And finally our battery is too small (11 Ah with only 5.5 Ah usable or even less) to handle big draws... 12 W socket maybe is conservative but on the right direction to protect the user and the battery...

I think, I prefer my tablet discharged instead of having a dead battery in the middle of nowhere...

 

[L.B.S.]

Great point, ste7ios- which brings up something I've always been curious about. I wonder what the NCX stator output *is* at the various rpm's below 5,000?

When cruising, my rpm is certainly well below 5K, and I imagine this for many other owners too, so what kind of available power are we getting at 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5 etc.? Is there a clever table of some kind that one can deduce this mathematically, or what?

Electrical boffins and Gurus to the white courtesy phone, please!

 

[showkey]

Great point, ste7ios- which brings up something I've always been curious about. I wonder what the NCX stator output *is* at the various rpm's below 5,000?

When cruising, my rpm is certainly well below 5K, and I imagine this for many other owners too, so what kind of available power are we getting at 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5 etc.? Is there a clever table of some kind that one can deduce this mathematically, or what?

Electrical boffins and Gurus to the white courtesy phone, please!

Just monitor the voltage........if it drops below about 13.5 volts your are using more power than the alternator is outputting.

I have a voltage monitor light instead of the volt meter and with full heated grips, full power heated vest, gps and all the normal bike running stuff at cruise 2000-3000 rpm it has never been the slightest concern. Even around town stop and go the charging system seems more than capable. I would say if one was to add two 55 watt driving lights that would max the system out.

Charging Monitor :


By Signal Dynamics

Flashing Green - Voltage Above 15.25 VDC – This prolonged over-voltage condition can destroy batteries, especially gel-cells.

Steady Green - Above 12.9

Steady Amber - Above 12.6

Steady Red - Above 12.1

Flashing Red - Below 12 VDC – During this condition, if the engine is running, do not shut down until service can be provided. Restart of engine is unlikely. Reduce electrical load.

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[L.B.S.]

Ya, I'm just curious about the actual amps/rpm output for random curiousity sake

I have been long dithering about the type of voltmeter though, and which type I'd prefer, colours or numbers, and am pretty sure I would benefit the most from the red/amber/green of the Signal Dynamics "at a glance" type, alright.

 

[ste7ios]

What you need is a voltmeter AND an ammeter. Voltage is the strength and Amperage the flow. You may see 13.8 V or more but you may not have electrons to put into the battery!

Something like Doc Wattson can be very useful to take your answers!

I don't like these monitors. This particular may be ok for a conventional lead acid battery but not for an AGM and it's charging system. It should monitor the area of 13.6 (Or is it 13.8V? I don't remember right now) - 15.0 V of NC's AGM charging system.

So I prefer a plain motorcycle voltmeter like Kosso mini 3...

 

[showkey]

There no question output varies with RPM but the benefit of AC alternator over the DC generator of years gone by is the AC output curve is much flatter. Since the NC and most small motorcycles have a permanent magnet rotor they are most sensitive to the RPM output varying.

If one was interested or needed know wattage output at any given time then the ammeter would be needed.......BUT IF..... Monitoring battery charging is the goal an ammeter is not needed. Amperage in the Alternator system is self regulating and there is NO amperage controls.

 

[ste7ios]

This is what I heard too but it seems to be wrong. You can see this in every power output graph like the following:

It's typical for every PMA out there...

it's also mentioned on Honda's Common Service Manual at pages 22-3 & 22-12, that idling and / or the conjunction of fan, accessories, high-beam, brake / turn signals, etc may discharge the battery. There is also a graph at 22-24 that explains that the battery needs specific RPMs to start charging depending its condition (e.g. more sulfation = higher internal resistance. You'll need higher voltage to charge it = more RPMs).

My battery OCV measurements also came to verify this by comparing same time trips in town & in open roads... (It was impossible to fully charge the battery in my daily 12'-15' trips).

 

[Porko]

I install a voltmeter on my road bikes, snowmobile, off pavement bike, outboard boat engine. I like to be able to monitor voltage so when a problem might arise you are aware of the voltage drop and u can try do something before u are walking. I bought half a dozen on line out of China a few years ago and installed one also on my NC using HD velcro when I bought it two years ago. If I remember they were somewhere around $3.00 each with free shipping, thats why I bought six thinking half would be crap. But so far the four I installed are working fine, winter, summer, rain, heat of summer. Sorry no link but I was able to find them with a little searching. Cheap insurance. My bike shows 11.9 V cranking on startup and 13.4V at idle and 13.4V- 13.6V riding.Ride safe.