How robust is the NC's alternator for powering heating clothing?

[Brillot2000]

I have never had any problems from any brand of electric clothing. I wear jacket, pants, and gloves at all times. I know that one company builds many of the parts for a few of the company's. When riding I have iphone, electric clothes, extra GoPro battery, extra communication system plugged in at all times. Also, charging my portable computer and a few other things plugged in all night. I have 5 outlets on my motorcycle.

I should replace my battery, as it is 2 1/2 years old.

OCR, I dare you to turn "ON" all that items on "HIGH" and then try to start the bike after 5-10 minutes of them all running. I'm sure the bike will not start up or barely will.

 

[Old Can Ride]

OCR, I dare you to turn "ON" all that items on "HIGH" and then try to start the bike after 5-10 minutes of them all running. I'm sure the bike will not start up or barely will.

When I am on the road, at lease 4 items are left on the motorcycle over night, charging for the next day. The items are an interphone communication device, GoPro battery, GoPro WiFi device, and my lap top. When riding the motorcycle my electric clothing is on my body, my iphone, and my extra GoPro extra battery are always plugged in charging in my frunk. Never had a battery problem, starts right up every morning. Same battery for 2 1/2 years. A few of the folks on this forum have traveled with me before, and they have all seen this! However, my clutch went out yesterday. Got a new EBC clutch in route.

You are correct about lights, accidently leave your lights on for just a short time and the motorcycle will not start. My wife's sister's boyfriend has made leaving his key "on" a fine art. Trailered him to my house a few times now!

 

[Brillot2000]

When I am on the road, at lease 4 items are left on the motorcycle over night, charging for the next day. The items are an interphone communication device, GoPro battery, GoPro WiFi device, and my lap top. When riding the motorcycle my electric clothing is on my body, my iphone, and my extra GoPro extra battery are always plugged in charging in my frunk. Never had a battery problem, starts right up every morning. Same battery for 2 1/2 years. A few of the folks on this forum have traveled with me before, and they have all seen this! However, my clutch went out yesterday. Got a new EBC clutch in route.

You are correct about lights, accidently leave your lights on for just a short time and the motorcycle will not start. My wife's sister's boyfriend has made leaving his key "on" a fine art. Trailered him to my house a few times now!

I was referring to all your heated gear and the ignition turn on and the engine not running. All the other electronic devices draw very little, such as a cell phone charger. The heaviest current draws would be in all the "Heated Gear". There the current draws would be exceeding 2 Amps or more each...

 

[dduelin]

I was referring to all your heated gear and the ignition turn on and the engine not running. All the other electronic devices draw very little, such as a cell phone charger. The heaviest current draws would be in all the "Heated Gear". There the current draws would be exceeding 2 Amps or more each...

Explain why you would ever do such a dumb thing. Why not "leave the ignition on for a week and see if your bike starts?"

The idea here is to know if your bike can sustain certain extra electrical loads placed on it while the engine is running and you are riding it.

 

[Tim Clynes]

If you have run a meter across the battery with all the gear plugged in and the voltage is anything above around 13.5 volts then I can't see it being an issue, and I'd be incredibly surprised if it wasn't.

Your heated gear is unlikely to draw enough amps to trouble the alternator.

Of course where I come from, with the exception of heated grips, my favourite luxury on a bike, alas yet to be fitted to my NC750X, because I refuse to pay £300 for a set from Honda when I can buy Oxford Hot Grips for less than £100, we just wear thermals.

 

[Brillot2000]

Explain why you would ever do such a dumb thing. Why not "leave the ignition on for a week and see if your bike starts?"

The idea here is to know if your bike can sustain certain extra electrical loads placed on it while the engine is running and you are riding it.

Well, that would be more of a "Real World" test with all the heaviest load drawing their maximum ratings. Leaving a few low current drawing devices such as cell phone, PC, etc chargers is not a real test of the charging system or of it's capabilities. Now wouldn't it? The discussion was about heated riding gear and what the charging system able to handle it.

Don't you have a Tiger in the garage that's begging for attention?

 

[670cc]

I was referring to all your heated gear and the ignition turn on and the engine not running. All the other electronic devices draw very little, such as a cell phone charger. The heaviest current draws would be in all the "Heated Gear". There the current draws would be exceeding 2 Amps or more each...

Well, that would be more of a "Real World" test with all the heaviest load drawing their maximum ratings. Leaving a few low current drawing devices such as cell phone, PC, etc chargers is not a real test of the charging system or of it's capabilities. Now wouldn't it? The discussion was about heated riding gear and what the charging system able to handle it.

Don't you have a Tiger in the garage that's begging for attention?

The topic of the thread is alternator output capacity, or as you said "what the charging system able to handle it", not battery reserve capacity. The effects of having the heated gear on with the engine off has nothing to do with alternator output. What's the point?

 

[Naked_Duc]

http://nc700-forum.com/forum/nc700-technical/506-electrical-power-output.html

Here's a thread that I referenced before I purchased all the heated parts (liners, grips, and power outlets). The max power output is 420(?)Watts. I figure the Oxford grips is drawing about 60w while jacket liner is at 90w. I figure if I do add pants liner, all together, running at MAX (which I wouldn't be), I'd be using about 200w. That's 1/2 of what the NC can provide. I doubt the headlights and the engine would use up 200w.

By my back-of-the-napkin estimate, I think the NC700X can handle all that.

 

[Fuzzy]

Don't make it too complicated. If proper voltage is maintained the alternator is keeping up with load. Do not expect to keep up at idle so if stuck in traffic you may want to turn some things off. If you think you are pushing limit then install volt meter on dash as some have suggested.

 

[SergeantChuck]

The fact that several people on this forum are running mulitple heated accessories and not one person has had a failure speaks for itself. Not that I can recall anyway. I wouldn't worry about it. This same topic has been covered in detgail a couple different times.

 

[kpinvt]

Don't make it too complicated. If proper voltage is maintained the alternator is keeping up with load. Do not expect to keep up at idle so if stuck in traffic you may want to turn some things off. If you think you are pushing limit then install volt meter on dash as some have suggested.

I don't do stop and go traffic in Vermont but with what little traffic I do run into I turn the electrics down or off. If I know I'll be stopping somewhere I turn the electrics off a few miles out.

 

[showkey]

What is going on here? Not often I can see so much B.S. in one tread. Some of you don’t know what you talk about and still talk about it.
First of all, ld_rider, your question is at least problematic:
“Anyone see any problems with this electrical (additional) load (about 15 amps) for extended riding?”
As you may see there are many who can: “…with absolutely no problem”.
This is insulting… It’s like asking Keith Richards if one can smoke for long time, and we know that he chain-smoked for 60 years and … still rockin’.
Secondly, you should dismiss all “I can” answers from NCX-ers.
Why? Look at these electrical schematics of NC700X…

So to answer to your question with question: Why would you like to risk having failed DCT in a critical moment and be stuck somewhere on a cold? Maybe be better for you to get external battery for your jacket?

Anecdotal experiences or stories are just that..........but to date there is no bad news.
Those schematics get more complex but not necessarily drawing all that much more power.

More BS...........or few facts.......

There is a huge difference between intermittent load or operation of the devices mentioned and continuous operation . Let take one of the added loads mentioned. While I could not measure ABS control unit on a NC, I measured it on Honda truck. This truck as the added load of a YAW sensor and steering angle sensor because it has vehicle stability and traction control. If you think the control units are radically different they are not. They are all Bosch Tevis based systems the size and capacity and added functions are all that really changes. Obvious the pump size varies the most.

Measured:
ABS control unit draws .5 amps or about 6 watts. (Engine running)
The ABS pump draws much more power but only runs on initial start up and during ABS operation. SOME bikes or cars can go weeks or month with ABS NOT being activated.
The battery is a storage unit or buffer and will operate high current draw items when needed.

The other added load mentioned............DCT trans solenoids, they only draw power when activated or when changing gears. I will work on measuring the solenoid draw in the near future. The added control unit duties I will guess (and measure in the future) as .5 amps or 6 watts ? OK lets go crazy and say the trans functions takes 1 or 2 amps. 12-24 watts.

Honda by adding an accessory harness rated at 7.5 amps is already saying there is safely a 100 watts extra power available.
Honda did not design and build two charging system. It would not a huge jump to conclude the capacity was built for the worse case or highest loads with a huge safety buffer. SO us manual trans guys can run more stuff, but we should leave the microwave at home.

Worth mentioning again the Honda grips control unit senses battery charge voltage. If the charge voltage is below limits the grips shut off. This shut down could be activated in cold weather and the rider is stuck in stop and go traffic for an extended period.

Until then don't leave your heated gear at home and stay warm.

As mentioned time and time again a simple charge light indicator or volt meter can be added so the charging system can be continuously monitored.....if this whole thing makes you nervous.

Another anecdotal story........
1983 Std Goldwing heated grips and heated vest. HOT Idle every thing on charge light comes on at idle, off idle charge lite goes green. Similar charging system to a NC
NC Same setup for gear and operation. charge light stays green at idle.
ST1300 automotive style alternator same gear plus a microwave no problems...... sarcastic maybe .....

I would agree if your stuck in traffic at idle excessive load can be a problem. Even modern cars have this issue, at prolonged idle with every thing on like heated glass/seats/mirrors, lights, cabin heat, AC defrost, TV navi, etc etc Many of those heated (high draw) items have timers to auto shut off. Several cars now have battery monitors built right in, so you can watch that kids soccer game in the rain from the heated seat while viewing the movie........and still maybe start the car 3 hours later....well it will warn you it may not start about 30 minutes into the game.

 

[Tim Clynes]

I was so confused by the apparent reticence of some folk to accept the observations of those who happily run the star load of heating clothing with no problems I called the nice chaps in the service department of the Honda Dealer I have been using for nearly 25 years.

There response was exactly as I expected - they see no issue.

 

[Chris]

The 12v socket is one of four possible accessories that you can attach to the Honda wiring harness. The socket is rated at 1 amp - Max 12 w roughly but the harness is fused at 7.5 amp - about 100 w on a nominal 12v system.

If your ABS pump were drawing 20amp continuous you'd be losing 240watt minimum just to power it. The 30 amp rating on the ABS is for peak load - for the second or two per month that you actuate it.

 

[ste7ios]

Α 7.5Α fuse means less than 6A in the DC circuit (6A + 125% = 7.5A fuse) , maybe 5.0A to be on the safe side, i.e. about 60W - 72W.

 

[dduelin]

Well, that would be more of a "Real World" test with all the heaviest load drawing their maximum ratings. Leaving a few low current drawing devices such as cell phone, PC, etc chargers is not a real test of the charging system or of it's capabilities. Now wouldn't it? The discussion was about heated riding gear and what the charging system able to handle it.

Don't you have a Tiger in the garage that's begging for attention?

No one interested in running heated gear on his bike should pay attention to how long it all takes to run the battery down with the engine off. That's a function of reserve capacity, not a real world load test of charge system.

The Tiger needs no attention tonight except to pack a small bag for a three day weekend ride starting tomorrow afternoon. I already installed heated grips, the harness for my heated jacket and gloves, and the GPS power supply.

 

[showkey]

Oh man, where to start…? Everything sounds so convincing…
The last thing I want here is some kind of technical and theoretical scuffle.

Where did it come from that Honda allows a 100 watts extra power with 7.5A fuse?
No matter…
There is a fragment from Honda’s manual for 12V Accessory Socket.



I don’t have data of current loads of my NCXD. But I have a service manual for a reason – I know how to use it.

[

There must be a reason that Honda uses two 30 Amps fuses for a protection of ABS operation. In my judgment the system is design for load of at least 20 Amps each. I know that ABS pump is working almost from start (above 6 mph). There are a six solenoid valves for an ABS. I don’t think I’ve had ABS activated so far and I’ll try to avoid it. But I want to have enough electrical energy available just for that.
DCT System is protected by another 30 Amps fuse. Shift Control Motor is working all the time plus two solenoid valves. Gear shifting happens in fraction of a second. The system needs a lot of power for this kind of operation. And I don’t want to depend on battery to provide extra energy. Some here know already what can happen to DCT when battery is not fully charged.

Back to intermittent vs continuous operation.

You are dead wrong on the ABS pump and solenoid operation. The ABS pump and solenoids only operate during active anti lock intervention. Yes the pump will draw about 20 amps and the solenoids about 20 amps for a few seconds of ABS actual operation . Again we talking about a few seconds of operation only when needed. AND YES the battery will run those items if needed. DO you depend on the battery to start the engine ? When needed.......

The shift solenoids are the same intermittent duty. They 5 ohm resistance so they draw about 2.8 amps or 37 watts for a few seconds during shifting.
There is no data on the shift control motor at this time when it operates or for how long.

Chris covered the accessory harness and that it has four leads for added items. The plug you mentioned is just one item.

 

[ziggie]

Id_rider all I have to say is trial and error always wins.do what you think best,have a good trip,post pics for us and carry some spare fuses.and b safe.

 

[ld_rider]

Thanks for all the replies...Much appreciated

Typically I do a run in December and another in February from Maine to Key West during school break. Last time it was 9 deg F when I left and didn't get above 32 deg F (freezing) until Jacksonville, FL. 28 hours after leaving Maine I was in Coconut Grove, FL, just south of Miami...About 1,600 miles from my house. Needless to say, that requires running at ah, elevated speeds for long periods of time. Hours and hours...Is that a strain on the alternator? I don't know....But without heated gear it would be impossible to do. You couldn't keep your feet from freezing...

I like the idea of a voltage indicator and I'll pick one up this week. I also have a dual Gerbings controller, which allows me to direct current to either my pants/gloves/socks (one circuit) or to my jacket (second circuit). Sounds like I might have to fiddle with those a bit to keep the load reasonable and balanced so the alternator doesn't puke.. No big deal, I'll just keep an eye on the voltage meter..

I also like the suggestion of capturing some wattage by moving to LEDs...I will investigate that, but not till next
winter since I'm leaving in two weeks for Tennessee and don't like the idea of doing major changes before a long trip.

I totally get the concept that the DCT probably has higher current requirements than the manual, and after seeing the schematics (thanks for posting)..I immediately bought an extended 4 year warranty. No joke. I really, REALLY don't want to deal with that mess!

There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence that the alternator can handle another 13 or 15 amps, especially if running at 3,500+ rpm for hours and hours on end...I'll give it a try.

I did drop my GL1800 once on the way to Key West (in Virginia) and as a result snapped the Gerbings connector off. Ended up stuffing my Aerostich with crumpled up pages from those discount hotel flyers found in most rest areas. Was enough to keep warm...Always have to have a plan "B" ;-)

 

[showkey]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There is no added strain on the alternator ( charging system) on the NC. Simple description.......The alternator is a permanent magnet type, and output is always at full. The output is then "controlled" by the regulator and either sent to the battery or if the power is not used or needed it is sent to ground.

This type of charging system is nothing special or out of the ordinary and has been used on 100's of models and millions have been made over the last 40 or more years. Just a note the NC eletrical is as simple as the modern cycle gets when compared to that GL1800