ste7ios
Member
Hmmm... DIN or ISO?
Okay.. What did I do wrong ?
- Thread starter Ponyperformance8
- Start date
W
wideguy
Part of what I was thinking is that they are self locking nuts, and the sprocket isn't under any side loads in use, so the nuts don't need to be terribly tight, just tight enough so they hold the sprocket firmly to the hub and don't loosen up.
Whatever, even though I'm certain 45 ft. lbs. would do the job just fine, I'll put mine back to 60 when I get around to wearing out a sprocket. That will be a while since I don't ride in the dirt and try to keep my chain and sprockets clean.
Whatever, even though I'm certain 45 ft. lbs. would do the job just fine, I'll put mine back to 60 when I get around to wearing out a sprocket. That will be a while since I don't ride in the dirt and try to keep my chain and sprockets clean.
lootzyan
Well-Known Member
The same torque values (108 N.m (11.0 kgf.m, 80 lbf.ft)) are given in 2012 NC SM for the rest of the world and in 2014-2015 CTX700 SM.
showkey
Super Mods
Since all NC CTX have been basically the same since 2012 .......if there is a print error, the error would be continued as a word processing cut and paste until someone discovered the error. By the way this is one reason mamaufactures like on line manuals as they can be updated at little or no cost and there are no out dated error pages "left in the library".
Ok then.........who wants to a take a known good quality, recently calibrated torque wrench and tighten their sprocket fasteners to 80 ftlbs and see what happens ????????? We do know the break away torque has been measured at least once at about 65 ftlbs.
As a couple more data points Honda auto lugs note with 10mm studs are torqued to 80 ftlbs and 12mm studs are torqued to 94 ftlbs. So the numbers are NOT crazy out of the range depending ( of course) on the grade of the fasteners.
Ok then.........who wants to a take a known good quality, recently calibrated torque wrench and tighten their sprocket fasteners to 80 ftlbs and see what happens ????????? We do know the break away torque has been measured at least once at about 65 ftlbs.
As a couple more data points Honda auto lugs note with 10mm studs are torqued to 80 ftlbs and 12mm studs are torqued to 94 ftlbs. So the numbers are NOT crazy out of the range depending ( of course) on the grade of the fasteners.
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ste7ios
Member
Break away torque normally is lower than the tightening torque, but can be about up to 2 1/2 times higher mainly due to corrosion or deformation... You can't really tell what was the tightening torque using a torque wrench... There are other special tools for that job.
Ponyperformance8
New Member
Update:
The studs are easily removed from the hub with a pair of locking pliers and a little bit of elbow grease.
Will order 5 new studs and locking nuts from Honda Parts Warehouse tonight.
The threads on the studs are shot.. they were before the locking pliers but they really are now. Threads at the top of the stud are good, but at the bottom, they are mostly just turned right off the stud.
There is no marking that I can see on the stud. They appear (to me) to be some low-ish grade aluminum, I am not surprised they stripped under 80 lb ft bearing what some of the earlier posts were.
The studs are easily removed from the hub with a pair of locking pliers and a little bit of elbow grease.
Will order 5 new studs and locking nuts from Honda Parts Warehouse tonight.
The threads on the studs are shot.. they were before the locking pliers but they really are now. Threads at the top of the stud are good, but at the bottom, they are mostly just turned right off the stud.
There is no marking that I can see on the stud. They appear (to me) to be some low-ish grade aluminum, I am not surprised they stripped under 80 lb ft bearing what some of the earlier posts were.
ste7ios
Member
Do you know if they're the original parts or a replacement?
Be sure that when you install the new ones, that everything is clean without any trace of lubricant. I guess an alcohol based brake cleaner will do the job with no residues behind...
Be sure that when you install the new ones, that everything is clean without any trace of lubricant. I guess an alcohol based brake cleaner will do the job with no residues behind...
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showkey
Super Mods
Take a magnet to the studs............don't think they are aluminum?
Ponyperformance8
New Member
Update# 2
I just checked my two torque wrenches against one another. I set 600 inch lbs on my small breaker bar and 50 ft lbs on my large (on my car's lug nuts) the larger bar did not move the lug nut at all. So I can assume that they are both set the same, and I assume they are set correctly.
They are original parts, that sprocket had never come off before.
I just checked my two torque wrenches against one another. I set 600 inch lbs on my small breaker bar and 50 ft lbs on my large (on my car's lug nuts) the larger bar did not move the lug nut at all. So I can assume that they are both set the same, and I assume they are set correctly.
They are original parts, that sprocket had never come off before.
Ponyperformance8
New Member
Take a magnet to the studs............don't think they are aluminum?
I stand corrected, they are ferrous, so not aluminum.. I guess just not strong enough for 80 lb ft, regardless of what the service manual says.
W
wideguy
It takes more torque to move a previously torqued nut than it took to torque it to whatever torque it was torqued to. That's why procedures for re-torquing cylinder head bolts/nuts call for loosening them first, then torquing them again to the proper spec.
I torqued mine a month ago to 80 ft lbs with a calibrated torque wrench known to be in spec. I did not strip any threads, but I remain skeptical as to whether the published spec is accurate. Next time I don't think I'll go with 80 ft lbs.
Ponyperformance8
New Member
That is good advice, thanks. I will do that.
D
Deleted member 5383
Yep, blue Loctite for the win.
rymech
New Member
For those purists interested, I have several torque wrenches calibrated on a yearly basis and verifiable with NIST traceability. I have not needed or wanted to change the sprocket yet, but I'd be more than glad to clear up the calibration issue on clean dry threads at the risk of stripping threads. I'd be inclined to do it asap if a number of people chipped in for new studs. Any interest?
Personally I don't use torque wrenches for much unless the threads they're going on are nearly new. But not everyone has the luxury of learning the "feel" or torques.
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Personally I don't use torque wrenches for much unless the threads they're going on are nearly new. But not everyone has the luxury of learning the "feel" or torques.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This thread got me curious.
I've got new sprockets and a chain shipped yesterday, so I will be doing this maintenance. In the 2016 service manual it's listed at 108Nm/80lb-ft in lots of different tables and diagrams:
At the front of the manual there is a table of torque values to be used when values aren't specified. For a 12mm nut and bolt that is 54Nm/40lbft:
Still, this seems like a high torque value.
Just Googling around:
Gixxer sprocket nut torque: 43.5ft-lbs
Hayabusa sprocket nut torque: 43ft-lbs
CBR1000RR sprocket nut torque: 47ft-lbs
Here's the same thread on another forum, questioning the torque, screwing it up etc...
Rear sprocket nuts (torque value?) - SuperHawk Forum
Edit: And another one: (CBRXX)
Sprocket - Torque Values
Edit: One more: (FZ6)
Front and Rear sprocket torque specs?
So I dunno what to tell ya. Split the difference and go with 60ft-lbs with some blue loctite? 50?
I assume we're all tightening these bolts in a nice star pattern, gradually ratcheting each one up to spec.... right?
Couple other thoughts:
Another thing maybe worth doing is to chase the threads on the nuts and bolts with thread cutting tools + oil if the nuts don't come off cleanly.
If the Honda ape that normally tightens oil filters has been at it again, the initial torquing to the manual's spec may have actually weakened the metal such that the next time you torque it that high, snap.
I've got new sprockets and a chain shipped yesterday, so I will be doing this maintenance. In the 2016 service manual it's listed at 108Nm/80lb-ft in lots of different tables and diagrams:
At the front of the manual there is a table of torque values to be used when values aren't specified. For a 12mm nut and bolt that is 54Nm/40lbft:
Still, this seems like a high torque value.
Just Googling around:
Gixxer sprocket nut torque: 43.5ft-lbs
Hayabusa sprocket nut torque: 43ft-lbs
CBR1000RR sprocket nut torque: 47ft-lbs
Here's the same thread on another forum, questioning the torque, screwing it up etc...
Rear sprocket nuts (torque value?) - SuperHawk Forum
Edit: And another one: (CBRXX)
Sprocket - Torque Values
Edit: One more: (FZ6)
Front and Rear sprocket torque specs?
So I dunno what to tell ya. Split the difference and go with 60ft-lbs with some blue loctite? 50?
I assume we're all tightening these bolts in a nice star pattern, gradually ratcheting each one up to spec.... right?
Couple other thoughts:
Another thing maybe worth doing is to chase the threads on the nuts and bolts with thread cutting tools + oil if the nuts don't come off cleanly.
If the Honda ape that normally tightens oil filters has been at it again, the initial torquing to the manual's spec may have actually weakened the metal such that the next time you torque it that high, snap.
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Papafox
New Member
Just had a look for my SV1000 which has a similar set up... 120Nm (87lbft). I had the sprocket off on the NC the other week. The nuts removed without drama, and likewise, torqued back up to 108Nm
ste7ios
Member
We've to compare the numbers for the same part numbers or the same specs. Anything else doesn't really help...
showkey
Super Mods
"If the Honda ape that normally tightens oil filters has been at it again, the initial torquing to the manual's spec may have actually weakened the metal such that the next time you torque it that high, snap."
Not to derail the sprocket torque thread.......
The oil filter is very likely not over torqued from the factory.........but.........the gasket sticktion more or less sticks the filter in place after a few heat and cool cycles. This a common occurrence and not limited to the NC or Honda in general. The gasket sticks on many vehicle and the technician must be careful not to double gasket the filter if the gasket sticks to the block. Many of the new filters actually crimp the gasket to the filter to avoid the chance it sticks to the block.
Not to derail the sprocket torque thread.......
The oil filter is very likely not over torqued from the factory.........but.........the gasket sticktion more or less sticks the filter in place after a few heat and cool cycles. This a common occurrence and not limited to the NC or Honda in general. The gasket sticks on many vehicle and the technician must be careful not to double gasket the filter if the gasket sticks to the block. Many of the new filters actually crimp the gasket to the filter to avoid the chance it sticks to the block.
Yeah I suspect it was put on dry without any oil on the gasket or threads. So it sticks.
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