Regular or Premium fuel?

[happy]

Actually I suspect that most of the modern production engines are running on more-than-enough quality fuel.
Is it really necessary to get the 91 or 95 or 98 RON fuels?
Why not just 85 or 88 or near?
I know the engine may knock under a certain RON level, but is that really true for our motor?
Is the rating just a fail-safe level which Honda wants to state?

What is the bare minimum? You think?
Is this another oil controversy thingy?

 

[Beemerphile]

What is the bare minimum? You think?
Is this another oil controversy thingy?

Well, since Honda are recommending the lowest grade available, I am not sure what you are suggesting.

 

[Beemerphile]

I believe my motorcycles and other engines will live long healthy lives on plain old generic 87 gasoline and no special additives, and I will pocket the savings so I can retire early and ride more.

Greg

Greg,

I am not suggesting that you spend more or buy into the obvious marketing hype (of which there is plenty). There are several economy brands on the Top Tier list and some "majors" (such as BP) who did not make it. In fact, the "favorite" brand that I listed is a local economy brand. A consortium of automakers believes that it matters. If they have done the work to sort the field and point out the best ones, I can't find any reason not to avail myself of it. I carry a current list of the Top Tire suppliers on my bike when I travel in unfamiliar areas. I bet I don't pay any more for gas than you do. I am skeptical and cheap as well.

 

[Graeme]

It is nice to have a bike that i can just run regular unleaded (91RON) fuel in. My NC is not a performance machine. My BMW recommended 98 (ultimate) but a min 95 (Premium) was ok. now i can just fuel up with my choice.

 

[turbodieseli4i6]

Here is a list of Top Tier gas companies. I didn't realise that I had been using one all along.

USA	Canada
76 Stations	Chevron Canada
Aloha Petroleum	Esso
Chevron	Petro-Canada
Conoco	Shell Canada
CountryMark
Entec Stations
Exxon
Hawaii Fueling Network (HFN)
Holiday Stationstores, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
MFA Oil Co.
Mileage Stations
Mobil
Ohana Fuels
Phillips 66
Quik Trip
Rebel Oil
Road Ranger
Severson Oil
Shell
Texaco
Tri-Par Oil Co.
U.S. Oil

 

[bamamate]

Wish I was using Hawaii Fueling Network

 

[MZ5]

Where I live now, there's essentially no price spread between Top Tier (or other name brands, since Exxon-Mobil only very recently jumped on that bandwagon) and any other fuel. Where I lived a while ago (Wow! It's been the better part of a decade now!), there was a dramatic price spread between the two, so I bought the low-priced stuff and additized it myself. That method still came out cheaper, yet results were as good as or better than Top Tier, based on oil analysis. Here, since TT is the same price, I make it simple for myself. QT is also a preferred brand for me.

I do, however, buy fuel from Costco quite a bit. Theirs is often enough less money to notice, and they've recently dramatically increased the additive levels in their fuel. They haven't bought the license to use the Top Tier labeling, but their fuel is now doing a completely comparable job, as far as I can tell.

 

[kunju]

I did not see any difference between 87 and 93. Expand Notes on my fuel-up and see for yourself
Motorcycle (Honda NC700X) | Fuelly

Use the Note from the previous fuel-up to see what gas gave which mileage

6. 75MPG Costco 87
5. 74MPG QT 93

So the MPG on 6 is from Gas filled at 5 at QT

 

[670cc]

I do, however, buy fuel from Costco quite a bit. Theirs is often enough less money to notice, and they've recently dramatically increased the additive levels in their fuel. They haven't bought the license to use the Top Tier labeling, but their fuel is now doing a completely comparable job, as far as I can tell.

So eventually all the stations want to buy the license for Top Tier labeling, and then they're all the same again? There would be no other Tier; everyone is Top. I still think it's all marketing hype. Gas is gas. (Petro is petro).

Greg

 

[MZ5]

Eventually is not now. You're happy with the fuel you choose, and that's really all that matters for you.

 

[OriginalRocket]

Little off topic, but how do you fill the tank? Just stick it on as far as it will go and hold the lever till it clicks off automatically? I'm too scared to try that, I hold it at an angle and slowly fill the tank up all the while visually watching the level. Am I doing this wrong? It is slow.

 

[Beemerphile]

I still think it's all marketing hype. Gas is gas. (Petro is petro).

And wrong is wrong. The five car companies that sponsor this do not do it for kicks. They do it to promote a level of gasoline detergency that is above the EPA minimum level. It is a performance based certification.

Top Tier Gasoline

76 is even honest enough to tell you that all Top Tier gasolines are equivalent...

76® Gas-Top Tier Detergent Gasoline

 

[670cc]

And wrong is wrong. The five car companies that sponsor this do not do it for kicks. They do it to promote a level of gasoline detergency that is above the EPA minimum level. It is a performance based certification.

Top Tier Gasoline

76 is even honest to tell you that all Top Tier gasolines are equivalent...

76® Gas-Top Tier Detergent Gasoline

From the toptiergas.com site:
What does it cost to sign up for the TT program?
There is an annual fee based on the number of service stations owned by the fuel marketer.

I have no arguement that Top Tier gas could be good stuff. What is not known is that not being Top Tier is necessarily a bad thing.

It may simply mean that I, as a hypothetical station owner, didn't see the value in paying licensing fees for the Top Tier label in order to help sell my gas, because as a station owner, maybe I believe most of my customers buy mainly based on price. Does it mean my additive package is or isn't sub par? I, as a station owner, could have bought a good alternative additive package from my detergent supplier at a lower cost, but it's not Top Tier licensed, so I don't have to pay the licensing fees.

 

[Beemerphile]

From the toptiergas.com site:
What does it cost to sign up for the TT program?
There is an annual fee based on the number of service stations owned by the fuel marketer.

I have no arguement that Top Tier gas could be good stuff. What is not known is that not being Top Tier is necessarily a bad thing.

It may simply mean that I, as a hypothetical station owner, didn't see the value in paying licensing fees for the Top Tier label in order to help sell my gas, because as a station owner, maybe I believe most of my customers buy mainly based on price. Does it mean my additive package is or isn't sub par? I, as a station owner, could have bought a good alternative additive package from my detergent supplier at a lower cost, but it's not Top Tier licensed, so I don't have to pay the licensing fees.

It is not licensed by stations, it is licensed by brands. I don't know if the licensing fee is trivial or significant. It pays for administering the program and I doubt that it is a profit center for the companies involved. The car companies were not trying to sell gas or make money on licensing, they were trying to influence gas companies to provide a better gas than the EPA mandated. Because so many people believe like you that "gas is gas" if an individual gas company upped its detergency ratings no-one would know, care, or believe that it was any different or better. What is in it for these five car companies is that they know their cars will perform better with it. The Top Tier system is an inducement by the car companies for the gas companies to provide better gas by providing a 3rd party certification that it meets certain performance criteria.

Continue to doubt if you will. I have nothing more to add.

 

[670cc]

It is not licensed by stations, it is licensed by brands. I don't know if the licensing fee is trivial or significant. It pays for administering the program and I doubt that it is a profit center for the companies involved. The car companies were not trying to sell gas or make money on licensing, they were trying to influence gas companies to provide a better gas than the EPA mandated. Because so many people believe like you that "gas is gas" if an individual gas company upped its detergency ratings no-one would know, care, or believe that it was any different or better. What is in it for these five car companies is that they know their cars will perform better with it. The Top Tier system is an inducement by the car companies for the gas companies to provide better gas by providing a 3rd party certification that it meets certain performance criteria.

Continue to doubt if you will. I have nothing more to add.

Well, it's probably moot anyway. From the provided list of Top Tier brands, if I just randomly go about buying fuel from various locations in my area, about 80% of the time I'd end up buying Top Tier gas whether I payed any attention to or not.

Interesting that BP is not in the Top Tier list. Their marketing from their Web site looks as impressive as their competitors, but it's not Top Tier:

"BP Gasoline
with Invigorate®

Quality fuel that can help protect your engine.

What makes BP gasoline with Invigorate® better than low-detergent gasolines? With continuous use, BP gasoline with Invigorate helps clean and protect engines from deposits, sludge and corrosion."

Invigorate FAQ | My BP Station

 

[670cc]

Little off topic, but how do you fill the tank? Just stick it on as far as it will go and hold the lever till it clicks off automatically? I'm too scared to try that, I hold it at an angle and slowly fill the tank up all the while visually watching the level. Am I doing this wrong? It is slow.

I stick the fuel nozzle in deep and blast the first couple gallons in, then I back the nozzle off to the filler neck, watching closely and filling very slowly until the fuel level reaches the neck of the tank. I get consistent fills and consistent predictable range with that method.

Whatever you do, don't aim the nozzle at that plate just below the neck or you will be wiping gasoline off your bike!

Greg

 

[daveyharr]

I stick the fuel nozzle in deep and blast the first couple gallons in, then I back the nozzle off to the filler neck, watching closely and filling very slowly until the fuel level reaches the neck of the tank. I get consistent fills and consistent predictable range with that method.

Whatever you do, don't aim the nozzle at that plate just below the neck or you will be wiping gasoline off your bike!

Greg

That is what I do to. If you hold it wide open you will be wearing it on your riding gear. Only made that mistake once.

 

[BikerDude]

Higher octane should mean better gas mileage as it will need a lower volume of fuel to get the same power output (the energy density of the fuel is higher). As for whether it is worth the premium price at the pump is another question. The additional cost certainly out-weighs the fuel savings.

Premium fuel is not so widely available in my part of the country. Most fill up at shopping centers and there is usually one kind of fuel - cheap. The few times I put the premium stuff in (empty tank) I noticed a marked improvement in MPG (and consider this is on a car, too).

It's not imagination - it's chemistry/physics.

Best regards,
BikerDude.

 

[670cc]

Higher octane should mean better gas mileage as it will need a lower volume of fuel to get the same power output (the energy density of the fuel is higher). As for whether it is worth the premium price at the pump is another question. The additional cost certainly out-weighs the fuel savings.

Premium fuel is not so widely available in my part of the country. Most fill up at shopping centers and there is usually one kind of fuel - cheap. The few times I put the premium stuff in (empty tank) I noticed a marked improvement in MPG (and consider this is on a car, too).

It's not imagination - it's chemistry/physics.

Best regards,
BikerDude.

I have no idea about your fuels in the UK, but here in the USA, premium fuel has no more BTU energy content per gallon than low octane fuel. Premium can actually have less potential energy content per gallon than regular depending on the alcohol percentage they've chosen.

Glad it works out for you where you live. I'd guess you'd have to decide whether it's worth the price difference.

Greg

 

[BikerDude]

The regular petrol is 95 octane, the premium is 98 or 99 octane. The cost however adds another £3 (approx. $4.50) to an imperial gallon of fuel.

For comparison, a regular imperial gallon of fuel is £6.04 (approx. $9.59)!!! That means it would cost us ~$30 to fill up the 700X from empty (14.1 liters).

Best regards,
BikerDude.