Well it finally happened! (GRAPHIC VIDEO AND IMAGES)

[Old Can Ride]

Welcome to the have's, the have not's will be joining us shortly. Get well soon, and ride!

 

[Naked_Duc]

The Speed: I did see the 20mph sign which is why I decelerated to 41mph just as I entered the corner. I had been taking 50-55mph corners all day before this so I was very comfortable at that speed. Entering the turn I was not on the throttle as I was still decelerating. I tend to decelerate through the beginning of a corner and accelerate just through and out of the apex.

The Lean: I most definitely was not leaning enough to scrape the peg. In fact, I have yet (well HAD yet) to scrap the peg on this bike at all. And, even if I was leaning enough to scrape, the corner was banked. Also, I listened to the audio of the clip just before the crash and really analyzed it. I hear the scrape of metal just a split second after I see the bike start to fall from the helmet cam POV. Watching the audio waveform as I was editing the video I could really see this.

The combination of the speed and lean (of the bike and your body) might have contributed to the peg dragging. This is what I was thinking:

Speed: you entered the corner at twice the speed limit. It looked as if you were trying to make that corner. It was a sharp turn. The centripetal force would have added more compression to your suspension, hence less ground clearance (less distance from the peg to ground)

Lean: there is no doubt there was a lot of lean of the bike to make that corner. But I can't tell how much you were leaning with your body. If you were leaning in with your body, you wouldn't have to lean the bike over quite as far. By having bad body position (crossed up), you might have to lean the bike over even more. All of which might have contributed toward having the beg touch the ground.

 

[turbodieseli4i6]

Those Tar Snakes can be very slick! I ran into a bunch of those things on a clover leaf off ramp in Oklahoma.(The off ramp looked like a tar snake puzzle.) It was like hitting countless patches of ice! My tires were in good shape also. I can very well see how they could take a rider down in a split second after that.

 

[OldJeff]

I still have 1/2" chicken strips on my NCX and have taken many 15/20 mph rated curves at 40 mph with no problems at all. High mileage front tire + tar snake = oops and ouch.

Glad to read you weren't hurt too badly.

 

[duk2n]

Get well as soon as possible. Havind had the OEM Z8's, I would say 13,000 miles for the front looks too much to me.

The tires are the stock Metzeler Z8's. The front is the original tire with 13,000 miles on it. No flat spots or crown hardly at all. The rear is fairly new with 2,000 miles or so.

 

[duk2n]

As side note: Since your video has video and audio if it was me there would have been some audio bleeps to cover what I was saying after that. You maintained you composure well!

+1! This boy is brave

 

[deedub]

I would say 13,000 miles for the front looks too much to me.

I've got 15,500 on my stock front tire, and was just thinking yesterday that I should change it in another thousand or two. Maybe I should do it sooner...

 

[670cc]

Tar snake is my vote as to what initiated the fall. I have a short section of road near me covered with snakes, where I take a left hand turn onto another road. No matter what bike or tires I ride across those things, I feel sliding like on grease or ice. They are truly nasty.

 

[JamesD]

After watching over and reading the OP's response to comments I think several things conspired against you.

I think the small amount of road debris was causing the scraping sound before the crash. You were loosing a little traction but normally that wouldn't be a problem.
When you hit the warm "snake" you lost all traction momentarily. This normally wouldn't be a problem either because the tire would grab as soon as you passed the snake.
In this case your speed and loss of traction drastically increased the lean angle of the bike and reduced the contact area of the tire.
The small amount of road debris, small contact patch due to the change in lean and your speed kept the tire from gripping and saving you.
I also think the lean immediately after the snake is more important than before it. If that audio is slightly out of sync to the video then the increased lean may have caused you to hit the peg and lift a tire at which point the tire couldn't save you.

 

[Calvin]

Josh, First I'm glad that you are ok, well almost ok, those burnmark must burn like h**.

I had the same kind of accident in mid July were a manhole with oil on it in a roundabout was the reason for the crash, but I had better gear on me so I walked away without any injurys at all. Seems also that we had ruffly the same speed or maybee yours was a litle faster because mine was around 30-35 mph.

When I look at your bikes damage the only difference between your and my bike that I can see is that I also had the shift lever complitly gone and that the whole plastic pice at the back of the MC were the Plate and lamp is were torned off only hanging in the wires to the lamp. So I couldn't drive it home even if the engine did start without any problem.

The funny part is however that when the shop did examine it more closly, and here I don't know the excakt English word for it, they did notice a scrack in the part were the frontfork goes through the frame. They thought it was strange due to the low speed I was traveling in and can only explain it with bad luck or bad construction.(Maybee worth for u to check this out to so you dont have the same problem without not noticed it?)

This and the bikes low milage - app 850 miles was the reason that the insurance company did chose to give me a new bike instead of repair this one. That did cost me app 450$ Have you got any words from the shop how mutch this will cost u to fix or are you going to do it yourself ?

 

[SergeantChuck]

A couple of things, you are not on the bike so the suspension is not compressed. Secondly, when the bike is corner, the centripetal force would compress the suspension even further to reduce ground clearance. With how softly the NCX is sprung, it wouldn't be difficult to lose all that ground clearance and drag the foot peg.

I agree with your statement. I wasn't trying to get anyone fired up over the photo. I only went outside to see approximately how far the bike could lean before the peg was close. Keep in mind I was still 2" from the ground. I had the wife snap the photo so I could see. I know what I did by leaning the bike over can't compensate for the collapsing of the suspension or my weight on the bike.

I also agree with your statement about the NCX being softly sprung. If you come into a corner hot and let off the accelerator the weight shifts to the front of the bike. I am an aggressive rider and enter them hot on occasion just as Josh H had stated. I normally try to set myself up for the corner but sometimes you missjudge. When entering the corner hot the front end drops and the back end comes up a bit when you let of the throttle. The weight shifts. The foot peg itself is actually closer to the rear wheel than the front wheel. Is it possible some of what you lost with the compression of the front suspension you have gained with the rear since the pegs are further back on the bike?

Also a lot of what I have read over the years suggests that if you scrape the road to a point where you cause a "pivot point" the rear tire looses traction. Again, I'm not saying the front tire can't slide out from under you. Especially a well used tire.

Many riders have a problem with letting their toes hang. They have there heel on the peg with the toes hanging low. I'm not saying Josh H rides this way but if he does he would have touch the pavement with his foot prior to the peg hitting. The attached photo isn't the perfect example but shows what I'm talking about.



Josh H himself does not think he drug the peg prior to the front tire sliding.

The Lean: I most definitely was not leaning enough to scrape the peg. In fact, I have yet (well HAD yet) to scrap the peg on this bike at all. And, even if I was leaning enough to scrape, the corner was banked. Also, I listened to the audio of the clip just before the crash and really analyzed it. I hear the scrape of metal just a split second after I see the bike start to fall from the helmet cam POV. Watching the audio waveform as I was editing the video I could really see this.

I guess I'm just trying to say I don't think Josh H came into the corner to hot and leaned the bike to much. I wasn't there and I wasn't on the bike so it all conjecture on my part. He stated he was at 41mph into the turn which seems very doable. I use the warning signs to judge what speed I can take a corner and 20mph over is manageable. I'm just glad Josh was not hurt any worse than he was.

I think this is probably my last post on this thread.

 

[mpgandfun]

Looks like some people are agreeing with the "tar snake" as a causer of motorcycle accidents. I see you're
in So Cal.. Hot weather that day? The tar can liquify if its hot enough and become slippery, according to
this article.

Looks like it was around the 100 degree mark on Saturday in the So Cal region,.

"Black-Tar Snakes" Cause Motorcycle Accidents Nationwide | California Bicycle Accident Lawyer | SF Bay Area Motorcycle Law Firm

 

[Harald]

Sorry to hear about the crash. But like I tell myself all the time, "if you want to play you might have to pay!"

I have to agree with the concensus: mostly likely cause of the slide was the tar snake with worn tire, deceleration in the turn, possibly body position and smooth road being contributing factors.

I almost always ride double the posted corner speed and even higher if I know the corner. Speed by itself shouldn't be a factor. But add greasy tar snakes and you don't even have to be speeding to get tire slide when leaned over even slightly. With such low traction on hot tar snakes, when you're leaned way over the front could easily be lost in a split second with no hope for recovery.

 

[happy]

Another thing which I read about, are those white painted arrows on the roads. Apparently, the oldschool ones can cause slippage.
All modern roads (aka most swiss roads) have been repainted with friction-full white paints on the road.

 

[jtkirk]

Sorry for your incident. Had a case of road rash twenty years ago. Know what you're going through.

 

[johnakay]

glad its only a rash and nothing more.
I'll go along with john on his theory of pegs getting stuck in the crack ..hence broken off.
I've never seen pegs completely broken off before ..hero blobs yes.
if pegs did get jammed in the crack then that would explain why the bike spun around on the right.
just a though.
take this as a lesson guys always wear the right gear.
if the journey is a short one for you not to bother getting dressed up in your bike gear then it would be best to walk.
best be safe than sorry...

 

[Josh H]

I limped downstairs and took some pics of the front tire. The air pressure is still at 36psi. And, after inspecting it again more thoroughly, I remain with my original statement of the tires being in decent shape; still decent tread life, no severe flat spots, and no wear indicators showing. However, I'm not exactly sure what the oily looking spots are near the outside edges.

By the way, the rear tire had no slide marks on it what-so-ever. It was definitely the front tire that lost traction.

 

[tslaw]

Saturday was a bad day. My bike looks very similar to yours except I didn't break the foot peg off. It's been over three years since I broke my ankle and elbow when a deer ran over me, and I've not practiced emergency reactions enough since. So Saturday when a doe and her fawns decided to cross the road in front of me and the car I was following, I locked the front wheel up in a panic and went down. I had full (mesh) gear on but found out that you still get a lot of road rash when your pads slide around. I wore holes in the sides of the knees of my pants and rashed my knees. Elbows were rashed a little also. No rash on my feet since my boots worked well - except my big toe on my right foot is purple. Two big bruces on my left side that are tender but nothing broken. My right hand is swollen and sore but nothing broken. I lost my gloves mid slide since I didn't have them fastened snuggly around my wrists. Once again a helmet saved my face.

Something to be said for using ATGATT but probably need to add to get better gear and use it properly. Also, I had been riding all morning and was 5 minutes from home so I probably let my guard down - dummy.











My wreck was primarily due to inattention and over reaction - I should have been able to stop safely without crashing if I had been riding at threatcon charlie as I had been all morning. 11 years and 147,000 miles and I still make stupid mistakes.

 

[Chestnut]

I have no input as to what may have caused the crash, but glad you are in one piece. Sounds like it's time to go shopping. What road was this, btw? It looks kinda familiar.

I'll go along with john on his theory of pegs getting stuck in the crack ..hence broken off.
I've never seen pegs completely broken off before ..hero blobs yes.

I have. My husband's r6 stalled and stood up in a turn, putting him into a guardrail and breaking the right peg off with his foot still on it. The bike then proceeded to chase him (now on the left side) across the road. It's all about the angle and point of impact.

 

[Antarius]

Our pegs fold up, even if he had touched the feeler it would have moved out of the way. I drag mine from time to time, no problems.

His front tire lost traction, for one reason or another -- perhaps he was dragging the brake just a tiny bit and went over that tar snake? That'll sometimes cause the tire to lock and with any lean angle, you're going down.

Nonetheless, the Metzeler Z8's are shitty tires. I have them too, and they are just flat out garbage. I can't wait to replace them.