Longer mod

[DanWill]

View attachment 4113View attachment 4114Have been toying with the idea of longer forks. Seems to me it should help a few issues the bike has, at least for me.
Raise the handlebars, raise the windscreen, raise the ground clearance at the front of the engine, and solve the seat slope issue.
In fact, to me, it almost seems like the bike was meant to be a little taller in the front.
Of course the rear of the bike will be the same height so all the extra height will be in the front and taper off towards the back.

I've contacted the company that made the fork extensions for my chopped Vstar and they are making me a pair of two inch extensions for the NC. The bad thing is that right now my bike is down as they needed the fork cap off one of my forks to get the threads on the extension right.

Just a quick mock up with paint... View attachment 4109View attachment 4110

Stay tuned..

 

[dduelin]

Won't raising the clamps two inches raise you in relation to the bars and windshield so there will be no ergonomic changes just more ground clearance and slower steering? Will the fork spring preload change with the extensions?

 

[DanWill]

No extra preload as the extenders fit the same as the original caps. The front of the bike will be two inches taller, the back over the wheel, will be the same height, so basically the bike will be tilted more, so distance from seat to foot pegs to handlebar will be the same, however the bars will be rotated up an inch or so, in relation to your new sitting position, the bars will be higher, and a little closer to you, the windshield also. If you want an easy idea of what it would be like, roll the front wheel onto a 2x4. That will not be as tall, inch and a half vs two inches, but will give you an idea how the bike will sit and what it will feel like.
As far as the slower steering, with the forks being as upright as they are, its not going to change the wheelbase by more than half an inch. Doubt there will be a noticeable change in handling, but will let you know when the extenders get installed.

 

[Cagedodger]

Why not just look for an alternate 41mm pair of forks? Heck, throw some upside down forks on it with a bit of a brake upgrade to go with it!

I don't think it's going to change your body's relation to the bars or windshield, though I could be wrong. It *might* help the seat.

Take lots of pictures, I want to see this. Don't forget to extend your control cables!

 

[yticolev]

If I can make a suggestion, it might be easier all round and still accomplish your goals to use rear suspension shortened links instead. Lower seat height can only be a benefit, and handling should be better. Raising the forks will decrease front end rigidity and raise the COG. Also stick you higher into the wind, decreasing mpg and power somewhat.

 

[DanWill]

Money not being an object that would be the way to go, however, money is tight around these parts... just bought a 22k roof!

If you look at it as the rear wheel being the fulcrum and the front of the bike being raised two inches, everything in between will be raised from zero to two inches depending on how far from the rear wheel(fulcrum) it is. Handlebars will be two inches higher but the front of the seat will be an inch higher also, so in relation to your body, its a one inch rise for the handlebar and windshield. Actually, because of the tilt, everything in front of the handlebars will be raised more than two inches(not much more mind you). These are approximate measurements, haven't done the math, don't want to!! Just be fun to try it out and find the goods/bads of it.

 

[DanWill]

If I can make a suggestion, it might be easier all round and still accomplish your goals to use rear suspension shortened links instead. Lower seat height can only be a benefit, and handling should be better. Raising the forks will decrease front end rigidity and raise the COG. Also stick you higher into the wind, decreasing mpg and power somewhat.

More ground clearance is one of the goals that lowering the rear will not help. It will raise center of gravity a little, but remember the rear of the bike is still the same height, so it will only be a fraction of the two inch raise to the front. Front end rigidity could be effected, however I have four inch extensions on my raked out bar bike and rigidity isn't an issue on that bike, handling changed quite a bit with that one, but had more to do with the rake than the extensions.

 

[670cc]

I'm not trying to shoot down your plans but I'm trying to visualize this. If I take this guy and tilt my monitor a few degrees CCW, his seat, peg, bar relationships and the angles of all his joints still look the same. The only thing I could see that would change is a slightly different angle of the force of gravity on the rider and a slightly different angle of air flow hitting the rider. No?



Also, I think steering response is about rake and trail in addition to wheelbase.

 

[yticolev]

More ground clearance is one of the goals that lowering the rear will not help. It will raise center of gravity a little, but remember the rear of the bike is still the same height, so it will only be a fraction of the two inch raise to the front. Front end rigidity could be effected, however I have four inch extensions on my raked out bar bike and rigidity isn't an issue on that bike, handling changed quite a bit with that one, but had more to do with the rake than the extensions.

Your COG will go up exactly one inch. If fork rigidity turns out to be an issue, you can always add a lower clamp to compensate.

Why do you want more road clearance? The only reason I can think of is to go off road, and handling will suck with laid back steering.

 

[yticolev]

So I'm trying to visualize this. If I take this guy and tilt my monitor a few degrees CCW, his seat, peg, bar relationships and the angles of all his joints still look the same. The only thing I could see that would change is a slightly different angle of the force of gravity on the rider and a slightly different angle of air flow hitting the rider. No?

View attachment 4103

Two other items: the view over the windshield will change. The NC was also designed to have neutral steering when transitioning to a standing position. This may or may not change when you effectively move the pegs a bit forward of your personal COG. Picture trying to stand from cruiser pedal position.

 

[lipsee]

Have been toying with the idea of longer forks. Seems to me it should help a few issues the bike has, at least for me.
Raise the handlebars, raise the windscreen, raise the ground clearance at the front of the engine, and solve the seat slope issue.
In fact, to me, it almost seems like the bike was meant to be a little taller in the front.
Of course the rear of the bike will be the same height so all the extra height will be in the front and taper off towards the back.

I've contacted the company that made the fork extensions for my chopped Vstar and they are making me a pair of two inch extensions for the NC. The bad thing is that right now my bike is down as they needed the fork cap off one of my forks to get the threads on the extension right.

Just a quick mock up with paint... View attachment 4083View attachment 4084

Stay tuned..

I am interested in what you are doing,and have thought along the same lines myself,I think the "ride"on this bike sucks,,the small front wheel hits bumps with a bang and feels choppy to me,,thou my last bike was a road/dirt bike with soft suspension so that may have something to do with it..I would prefer a 19/21 in front wheel.So that intails giving the wheel clearance,so having to extend the forks..Hopefully that would improve the ride,,but would not do much for the handling..As I am a pretty slowish rider it not a big issue...

 

[xtpete]

Doubt there will be a noticeable change in handling, but will let you know when the extenders get installed.

2" (50mm).. will decrease the rake & add at least 1" (25mm) to the trail.. will slow the handling down
Trail --- the diffrents between where the fork angle (rake) intersects with the ground & the vertical line from the ground though the
axle centre.. When you turn the handle bars the wheel moves foward in a arc it dosn't rotate on the spot.. you are makeing that arc bigger...
It will make it better on lose surfaces by reduceing front wheel wash out...Be more like a real ADV bike...

But It will also make the front lighter by thowing your and the bikes front weight slightly rear wards..

pete

 

[dduelin]

I'm not trying to shoot down your plans but I'm trying to visualize this. If I take this guy and tilt my monitor a few degrees CCW, his seat, peg, bar relationships and the angles of all his joints still look the same. The only thing I could see that would change is a slightly different angle of the force of gravity on the rider and a slightly different angle of air flow hitting the rider. No?

View attachment 4103


Also, I think steering response is about rake and trail in addition to wheelbase.

+1. There will be no appreciable ergo changes by lengthening the forks but on the other hand raising the fork clamps on the tubes has the effect of changing the angle of the steering axis to the ground which increases trail. Increases in trail slow steering inputs, thus the bike will steer slower and be less responsive to steering inputs. The quick, nimble handling of the NC700X is not something I would not want to change. Suspension tuning guides cover the effect of raising or lowering the forks in the clamps quite well. The same effect of increasing trail comes about from lowering the rear and leaving the forks alone. When a bike needs to be lowered it is best to lower both ends the same amount in order to preserve steering geometry.

What about using risers to lift the bars if that is what you are trying to achieve?

 

[DanWill]

I'm not trying to shoot down your plans but I'm trying to visualize this. If I take this guy and tilt my monitor a few degrees CCW, his seat, peg, bar relationships and the angles of all his joints still look the same. The only thing I could see that would change is a slightly different angle of the force of gravity on the rider and a slightly different angle of air flow hitting the rider. No?

View attachment 4103

Also, I think steering response is about rake and trail in addition to wheelbase.

Correct the relationship between pegs, handlebar, and seat are all the same, but you have to realize the person on the bike will now be leaning more forward to center themselves. Which will mean they will be a little closer to the handlebars which will be higher in relation to the seat, effectively making them higher to the rider.

 

[DanWill]

+1. There will be no appreciable ergo changes by lengthening the forks but on the other hand raising the fork clamps on the tubes has the effect of changing the angle of the steering axis to the ground which increases trail. Increases in trail slow steering inputs, thus the bike will steer slower and be less responsive to steering inputs. The quick, nimble handling of the NC700X is not something I would not want to change. Suspension tuning guides cover the effect of raising or lowering the forks in the clamps quite well. The same effect of increasing trail comes about from lowering the rear and leaving the forks alone. When a bike needs to be lowered it is best to lower both ends the same amount in order to preserve steering geometry.

What about using risers to lift the bars if that is what you are trying to achieve?

There will be ergo changes as the rider is now leaning more forward and the bars are higher in relation to the seat, therefore higher to the rider. The extra trail will slow steering some, but with allot of offroad riding in the future, that's not a bad thing. Will it make any real world changes to handling on the street? Sure. Will it matter so much that I would want to switch it back? Doubt it. Time will tell.

 

[DanWill]

2" (50mm).. will decrease the rake & add at least 1" (25mm) to the trail.. will slow the handling down
Trail --- the diffrents between where the fork angle (rake) intersects with the ground & the vertical line from the ground though the
axle centre.. When you turn the handle bars the wheel moves foward in a arc it dosn't rotate on the spot.. you are makeing that arc bigger...
It will make it better on lose surfaces by reduceing front wheel wash out...Be more like a real ADV bike...

But It will also make the front lighter by thowing your and the bikes front weight slightly rear wards..

pete

It will be an interesting experiment for sure! And completely reversible, should the handling be adversely affected. But I don't foresee there being any real problems with such a small change. Like I said, my bar bike has a 6 degree rake and four inch extensions and its still completely rideable. Slow speed handling is greatly changed, but once you're moving more than ~seven miles an hour, the bike feels completely natural, and the change I'm trying with the NC will be nowhere near that drastic.

 

[DanWill]

I am interested in what you are doing,and have thought along the same lines myself,I think the "ride"on this bike sucks,,the small front wheel hits bumps with a bang and feels choppy to me,,thou my last bike was a road/dirt bike with soft suspension so that may have something to do with it..I would prefer a 19/21 in front wheel.So that intails giving the wheel clearance,so having to extend the forks..Hopefully that would improve the ride,,but would not do much for the handling..As I am a pretty slowish rider it not a big issue...

This whole idea originally came from the thought of adding a nineteen inch wheel to the bike and what would be needed to make that work. Also the fact that I have a nice bump I get air off of on the trail on and off my property, and I can routinely scrape the ground with the skid plate upon landing. Not a hard hit to be sure, but looking behind I can see a nice skid plate print in the sand on the driveway.. That so far is the extent of my dirt riding, doubt I will go much beyond that, but would be nice for the bike to handle better on the dirt.

 

[DanWill]

Two other items: the view over the windshield will change. The NC was also designed to have neutral steering when transitioning to a standing position. This may or may not change when you effectively move the pegs a bit forward of your personal COG. Picture trying to stand from cruiser pedal position.

Change for the foot pegs isn't drastic, with the more forward lean of the rider due to the tilt of the bike, it may be even easier to stand up on the pegs. And the handlebar will be higher so again, better for standing.

 

[dduelin]

snipped....…my bar bike.......

What is a bar bike?

 

[netizen]

What is a bar bike?

Oh boy...that's a loaded question.

Maybe, a bike focused more on its "artistic" qualities than practical qualities.

This forum is probably one of the most diverse motorcycle forums I've subscribed to. You have members focused on fuel efficiency, distance riding, beginner riders, commuters....etc. the bike even has adventure riding capability.



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